How to not sabotage results with a cheat day
Replies
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Diatonic12 wrote: »I agree with @ninerbuff. We just word things differently.
Learning how to eat at the maintenance level is the best practice for what's coming for you for the rest of your life. It's the main tool. Use it whenever you need to.
Practice maintenance instead of falling right back into those old eating behaviors. Think of it as Maintenance.
Maintenance is where the rubber really meets the road for long term weight stability.
I think this is very wise and has been very true, in my experience. Over the past 3 years I was able to maintain my weight consistently by preparing with a very slow weight loss prior to that, and then basically eating the same but slightly more and having occasional meals out that I didn't track. Things went sideways after the pandemic..... So now I'm back to weight loss mode, which I really didn't want to be back in this place, but here we are1 -
I think maybe I need to think more about how I have been wording things and "cheat meals/days". I definitely appreciate what everyone said, because I can see how that isn't really a mentally healthy attitude. I DEFINITELY struggle with binge eating- not like pathologic or insane amounts of food, but for example, I want to eat the entire pint of ice cream. Like I don't want just a 1/2 cup serving, I want the whole thing. Which I don't think is that uncommon but also it's probably more than is necessary and ends up being 900-1000 calories in one sitting. So I guess the question really is, can I have one serving of ice cream, which I could fit into my calories, or will that be extremely difficult to do mentally.
Part of the path we are all on is learning to compromise and balance our wants with our needs. This is why the cheat mentality is so dangerous. It leaves a part of you anchored in your old habits and mindset. When you are absolutely forced to stay in a calorie budget it makes you reevaluate what you REALLY want. I would never want to eat 1k of ice cream under normal conditions because it is not that much food and it is not, for me, satiating. It is a black hole of calories that I have to cover by cutting out a lot of other food and potentially being left hungry. 300ish maybe, 1k is not worth it.
Consider practicing mindful eating. This is an exercise that forces you to slow down and thoroughly appreciate each bite of food. I suck at it but it works for some people.
Awareness works better for me so you can try it too. I am aware that the pleasure and satisfaction of food is fleeting. Each bite is similar to the bite before it and about the time it is swallowed the enjoyment is already gone. I am also aware that the pleasure I get from all the new activities I can do because I have lost weight has a higher degree and much longer lasting satisfaction. The fleeting food pleasure that I am sacrificing is a small price to pay for what I am gaining. It is almost ludicrous to call it a sacrifice.
ETA: The above is where I live and work. When it is a special occasion, holiday, or vacation I have my permission to play. I still eat with some rules but I do allow myself to indulge far more than I do otherwise. This is part of my compromise.1 -
I agree with the philosophy of no cheat days- if I really want something I eat it. To make this lifestyle change I need to know that I can eat the foods I want (in moderation.) I just acknowledge that it may affect my weight loss for the week and accept it. When I deny myself certain foods is when I end up on an eating binge.0
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Diatonic12 wrote: »Rid yourself of the Cheat Meal mentality. How you speak to yourself matters. I'm not married to my food so I don't need to cheat on it. Cheat Meals can easily become just another permission slip for a glorified binge mentality.
Eat the foods you like and moderate your portions every single day. Cheat meals after the deficit/weight loss cycle can go sideways and result in eating it all back. If it were not so there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends
Cheat meals that start out with only one meal or one full day sliding into a weekend food lollapalooza can undo progress. So it depends on how much progress you're willing to give up. There's eating at the maintenance level which can include more of those favorite foods you enjoy.
Simply eat at your maintenance level and you won't have to cheat on yourself or your food or anyone. You can eat at your maintenance level whenever you want to and it will not affect your progress one iota.
It depends on what you are doing. I train 6 days a week, 3 strength and 3 conditioning. I eat what I want on the weekends within reason. It does not affect my weight loss at all. It's not cheating, but re-feeding.1 -
I usually make it a “cheat meal.” I have a lot of weight to lose so I build the occasional treat into my meal plan. MFP diary keeps me in check to make sure I am meeting my caloric goals for the week!0
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@cgvet37 Understood and appreciated....the re-feed for athletes and pros. As for me, I was a wash, rinse, repeat rebounder. Rebound weight gain with friends.0
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Diatonic12 wrote: »Rid yourself of the Cheat Meal mentality. How you speak to yourself matters. I'm not married to my food so I don't need to cheat on it. Cheat Meals can easily become just another permission slip for a glorified binge mentality.
Eat the foods you like and moderate your portions every single day. Cheat meals after the deficit/weight loss cycle can go sideways and result in eating it all back. If it were not so there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends
Cheat meals that start out with only one meal or one full day sliding into a weekend food lollapalooza can undo progress. So it depends on how much progress you're willing to give up. There's eating at the maintenance level which can include more of those favorite foods you enjoy.
Simply eat at your maintenance level and you won't have to cheat on yourself or your food or anyone. You can eat at your maintenance level whenever you want to and it will not affect your progress one iota.
It depends on what you are doing. I train 6 days a week, 3 strength and 3 conditioning. I eat what I want on the weekends within reason. It does not affect my weight loss at all. It's not cheating, but re-feeding.
This is why context is important. I have had to engage in some refeeds myself but it all has limits and it works inside a bigger overall plan.0 -
I eat a lot of ice cream. A lot
When I get it at the store I assume I'll eat it all by the end of the week. I take the total calories in the box and divide by the number of days and add it to each day (even if I don't eat any that day)*. To keep the amount in check, I put it in a bowl and put the rest back in the freezer. When the bowl is empty I'm done.
*When I count calories which isn't too often any more. Previously counting has taught me how to eat without thinking about it.
Good luck.3 -
but for example, I want to eat the entire pint of ice cream. Like I don't want just a 1/2 cup serving, I want the whole thing. Which I don't think is that uncommon but also it's probably more than is necessary and ends up being 900-1000 calories in one sitting. So I guess the question really is, can I have one serving of ice cream, which I could fit into my calories, or will that be extremely difficult to do mentally.
Yes. We can learn to moderate our portions. You're going to have to gut this out in the beginning. Measure your portion and enjoy. Throw your hands in the air because you've just stuck the landing. Then it's time to walk away and remove yourself from the scene.
Defy your brain. It's going to shake and shiver and shimmy. Your brain won't like it. The brain is a driver and it will drive, drive, drive you to go back to the scene. The brain remembers every eating excursion you've ever been on. Just like a squirrel that can remember where every nut is stored, the brain remembers everything.
This is why the All or Nothing Approach to food doesn't work. I must eat everything today and then I'm never going to have this ever again. Shock and Awe. It doesn't last.
Rebound weight gain with friends. After all of the deficit/weigh loss cycles are over the brain is just waiting and ready to pounce. When that Ol' Kid is back in biz it's showtime. Let the thrill eating begin. It's these constant cycles that you want to break.
True change begins with moderating your portions and consistency, consistency, consistency. The brain will fight against you and that can last anywhere from 2-5 years after the weight loss cycle is over. If it were not so, there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends or the need for constantly starting over.
Don't start none. Won't be none.
Track your data points. Measure your portions. Let the brain pout and you may have to tell it to shut UP many times before it begins to settle down and get with your new program. You're in charge. In your innermost being you are always in charge. Don't let the brain bully you. You can eat one portion of ice cream and let the brain deal with moderation.
Somesayers say you will always be an All or Nothing person but that's only because they believe it or someone wrote a book that identifies them in a such way that makes sense only to author. I've never let anyone peg me as something that needs to fit into their narrative or convenient groupings. There are so many authors of confusion and that's why I threw all of my dieting books away.
We can choose to change on a dime. Sticking the landing every day will take focus. practice. consistency.
It's not bragging if it's true. The day I came to MFP is the day I threw all of that old dieting dogma and dieting mind warp out with the bathwater. It's been a wild and wooly ride getting to know you all.
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Diatonic12 wrote: »@cgvet37 Understood and appreciated....the re-feed for athletes and pros. As for me, I was a wash, rinse, repeat rebounder. Rebound weight gain with friends.
I'm far from being a pro or athlete. I just don't believe in food shaming or depriving yourself. If I eat strict 7 days a week, I'll go insane. Plus, it helps refuel my body for the coming week. Last Saturday I had Korean barbecue and pizza for dinner. Sunday we had Cheesecake factory. I ate within reason though. I didn't gourge. Even with that type of eating, I still lose 2+ pounds a week. If I wasn't doing any conditioning, I wouldn't eat like that, as my calorie burn would be much lower. It's all about context and what you need to be successful. Would I tell everyone to eat like that, no, as everyone had different needs.1 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »but for example, I want to eat the entire pint of ice cream. Like I don't want just a 1/2 cup serving, I want the whole thing. Which I don't think is that uncommon but also it's probably more than is necessary and ends up being 900-1000 calories in one sitting. So I guess the question really is, can I have one serving of ice cream, which I could fit into my calories, or will that be extremely difficult to do mentally.
Yes. We can learn to moderate our portions. You're going to have to gut this out in the beginning. Measure your portion and enjoy. Throw your hands in the air because you've just stuck the landing. Then it's time to walk away and remove yourself from the scene.
Defy your brain. It's going to shake and shiver and shimmy. Your brain won't like it. The brain is a driver and it will drive, drive, drive you to go back to the scene. The brain remembers every eating excursion you've ever been on. Just like a squirrel that can remember where every nut is stored, the brain remembers everything.
This is why the All or Nothing Approach to food doesn't work. I must eat everything today and then I'm never going to have this ever again. Shock and Awe. It doesn't last.
Rebound weight gain with friends. After all of the deficit/weigh loss cycles are over the brain is just waiting and ready to pounce. When that Ol' Kid is back in biz it's showtime. Let the thrill eating begin. It's these constant cycles that you want to break.
True change begins with moderating your portions and consistency, consistency, consistency. The brain will fight against you and that can last anywhere from 2-5 years after the weight loss cycle is over. If it were not so, there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends or the need for constantly starting over.
Don't start none. Won't be none.
Track your data points. Measure your portions. Let the brain pout and you may have to tell it to shut UP many times before it begins to settle down and get with your new program. You're in charge. In your innermost being you are always in charge. Don't let the brain bully you. You can eat one portion of ice cream and let the brain deal with moderation.
Somesayers say you will always be an All or Nothing person but that's only because they believe it or someone wrote a book that identifies them in a such way that makes sense only to author. I've never let anyone peg me as something that needs to fit into their narrative or convenient groupings. There are so many authors of confusion and that's why I threw all of my dieting books away.
We can choose to change on a dime. Sticking the landing every day will take focus. practice. consistency.
It's not bragging if it's true. The day I came to MFP is the day I threw all of that old dieting dogma and dieting mind warp out with the bathwater. It's been a wild and wooly ride getting to know you all.
Yeah, honestly, I feel like my brain would freak out and not be able to do it... Which is crazy because hypothetically "I'm" in charge of what I do. I think that the whole binge habit was started as a kid and that mentality of good or bad food, on a diet or off a diet, is so hard to break. Even if it's not an actual binge eating disorder, like not insane amounts of food, but trying to break the habit of eating much more than you need to just for fun/pleasure1 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »@cgvet37 Understood and appreciated....the re-feed for athletes and pros. As for me, I was a wash, rinse, repeat rebounder. Rebound weight gain with friends.
I'm far from being a pro or athlete. I just don't believe in food shaming or depriving yourself. If I eat strict 7 days a week, I'll go insane. Plus, it helps refuel my body for the coming week. Last Saturday I had Korean barbecue and pizza for dinner. Sunday we had Cheesecake factory. I ate within reason though. I didn't gourge. Even with that type of eating, I still lose 2+ pounds a week. If I wasn't doing any conditioning, I wouldn't eat like that, as my calorie burn would be much lower. It's all about context and what you need to be successful. Would I tell everyone to eat like that, no, as everyone had different needs.
No one is telling the OP to engage in deprivation or telling the OP that eating ice cream is shameful. Compromise and setting realistic expectations is important.
Speaking of realistic expectations...
What you believe you need may not be sustainable for you throughout your weight loss. Things change as you continue to lose fat stores. 60 pounds ago my energy management was fairly simple. I could bank a lot of calories and very seldom ever feel fatigued. All of the stored energy on my body protected me. Now that I am down to the last 20ish pounds, losing 1 pound per week, and enjoying a high activity level I could never bank enough calories to eat loosely on two weekend days and still maintain my full 3500 calorie deficit. I would be wrecked on energy nonstop. You are currently doing that with a 7k+ deficit.
If you are doing bulk and limited cut cycles it probably works for small windows of time too. Long term deficits are different beasts.
If you are in a long term deficit try not to get locked in on what you believe you absolutely need. You can adapt. My way of eating has changed multiple times over the last 2.5 years and over 250 pounds.0 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »@cgvet37 Understood and appreciated....the re-feed for athletes and pros. As for me, I was a wash, rinse, repeat rebounder. Rebound weight gain with friends.
I'm far from being a pro or athlete. I just don't believe in food shaming or depriving yourself. If I eat strict 7 days a week, I'll go insane. Plus, it helps refuel my body for the coming week. Last Saturday I had Korean barbecue and pizza for dinner. Sunday we had Cheesecake factory. I ate within reason though. I didn't gourge. Even with that type of eating, I still lose 2+ pounds a week. If I wasn't doing any conditioning, I wouldn't eat like that, as my calorie burn would be much lower. It's all about context and what you need to be successful. Would I tell everyone to eat like that, no, as everyone had different needs.
No one is telling the OP to engage in deprivation or telling the OP that eating ice cream is shameful. Compromise and setting realistic expectations is important.
Speaking of realistic expectations...
What you believe you need may not be sustainable for you throughout your weight loss. Things change as you continue to lose fat stores. 60 pounds ago my energy management was fairly simple. I could bank a lot of calories and very seldom ever feel fatigued. All of the stored energy on my body protected me. Now that I am down to the last 20ish pounds, losing 1 pound per week, and enjoying a high activity level I could never bank enough calories to eat loosely on two weekend days and still maintain my full 3500 calorie deficit. I would be wrecked on energy nonstop. You are currently doing that with a 7k+ deficit.
If you are doing bulk and limited cut cycles it probably works for small windows of time too. Long term deficits are different beasts.
If you are in a long term deficit try not to get locked in on what you believe you absolutely need. You can adapt. My way of eating has changed multiple times over the last 2.5 years and over 250 pounds.
I'm not arguing that your individual needs will change overtime. I just don't like the word "cheat". If you are reaching your goals, then eat what you want. My caloric goal is set for 1lb loss per week. With the added conditioning 3 days a week, I'm burning a lot more calories. So I can eat more on the weekends, and still surpass my weekly goal for now. If I were to stop my conditioning, I would have to change my diet to reflect.0 -
@Raegold The brain will react. Know that going in. Just begin. It's perfectionism at the root of All or Nothing thinking with food. You're right, these things can start in childhood but as the years go by it turns into something else.
Binge eating and diabetes go hand in hand. What starts out as binge eating in the early years can evolve into diabetes. In the early stages, there's binge eating and then dieting cycles trying to compensate for the binge eating. Eventually, that doesn't work anymore. The weight begins to stack on and it turns into obesity. The wild swings UP and down and back and forth with weight won't fix it anymore. The diabetes diagnosis is lurking and ready to show up on your doorstep. It becomes a total cluster.
The sooner you can get a grip on all of this the better off you'll be. One out of three have diabetes. If I had only known this when I was 20 it would've saved me from yoyo dieting and rebound weight gain with friends.
Which comes first. The binge eating or the diabetes. One thing they do know is that binge eating earlier in life is a precursor of diabetes on down the road.
You can do your own research. Our mileage will always vary but here's a couple.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/8/818
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/binge-eating-disorders.html0 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »but for example, I want to eat the entire pint of ice cream. Like I don't want just a 1/2 cup serving, I want the whole thing. Which I don't think is that uncommon but also it's probably more than is necessary and ends up being 900-1000 calories in one sitting. So I guess the question really is, can I have one serving of ice cream, which I could fit into my calories, or will that be extremely difficult to do mentally.
Yes. We can learn to moderate our portions. You're going to have to gut this out in the beginning. Measure your portion and enjoy. Throw your hands in the air because you've just stuck the landing. Then it's time to walk away and remove yourself from the scene.
Defy your brain. It's going to shake and shiver and shimmy. Your brain won't like it. The brain is a driver and it will drive, drive, drive you to go back to the scene. The brain remembers every eating excursion you've ever been on. Just like a squirrel that can remember where every nut is stored, the brain remembers everything.
This is why the All or Nothing Approach to food doesn't work. I must eat everything today and then I'm never going to have this ever again. Shock and Awe. It doesn't last.
Rebound weight gain with friends. After all of the deficit/weigh loss cycles are over the brain is just waiting and ready to pounce. When that Ol' Kid is back in biz it's showtime. Let the thrill eating begin. It's these constant cycles that you want to break.
True change begins with moderating your portions and consistency, consistency, consistency. The brain will fight against you and that can last anywhere from 2-5 years after the weight loss cycle is over. If it were not so, there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends or the need for constantly starting over.
Don't start none. Won't be none.
Track your data points. Measure your portions. Let the brain pout and you may have to tell it to shut UP many times before it begins to settle down and get with your new program. You're in charge. In your innermost being you are always in charge. Don't let the brain bully you. You can eat one portion of ice cream and let the brain deal with moderation.
Somesayers say you will always be an All or Nothing person but that's only because they believe it or someone wrote a book that identifies them in a such way that makes sense only to author. I've never let anyone peg me as something that needs to fit into their narrative or convenient groupings. There are so many authors of confusion and that's why I threw all of my dieting books away.
We can choose to change on a dime. Sticking the landing every day will take focus. practice. consistency.
It's not bragging if it's true. The day I came to MFP is the day I threw all of that old dieting dogma and dieting mind warp out with the bathwater. It's been a wild and wooly ride getting to know you all.
Yeah, honestly, I feel like my brain would freak out and not be able to do it... Which is crazy because hypothetically "I'm" in charge of what I do. I think that the whole binge habit was started as a kid and that mentality of good or bad food, on a diet or off a diet, is so hard to break. Even if it's not an actual binge eating disorder, like not insane amounts of food, but trying to break the habit of eating much more than you need to just for fun/pleasure
Perhaps you could start with bending your habit instead of breaking it. Give yourself permission to eat the entire pint of ice cream but see if you can get your inner child to agree to modify how it is consumed. What if you ate a half serving of ice cream, stopped and brushed your teeth for a full minute, logged the calories you just ate, washed the bowl and spoon you ate from, then wait 15 minutes before eating the next half serving before starting the cycle over again?
That is just a possible suggestion you might think of something better.
The idea is to keep interrupting the behavior and make eating more than you need a hassle. You aren't telling yourself no. You are allowing your brain to form a new association. The half serving of ice cream is the pleasure. Eating more is a chore.4 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »@Raegold The brain will react. Know that going in. Just begin. It's perfectionism at the root of All or Nothing thinking with food. You're right, these things can start in childhood but as the years go by it turns into something else.
Binge eating and diabetes go hand in hand. What starts out as binge eating in the early years can evolve into diabetes. In the early stages, there's binge eating and then dieting cycles trying to compensate for the binge eating. Eventually, that doesn't work anymore. The weight begins to stack on and it turns into obesity. The wild swings UP and down and back and forth with weight won't fix it anymore. The diabetes diagnosis is lurking and ready to show up on your doorstep. It becomes a total cluster.
The sooner you can get a grip on all of this the better off you'll be. One out of three have diabetes. If I had only known this when I was 20 it would've saved me from yoyo dieting and rebound weight gain with friends.
Which comes first. The binge eating or the diabetes. One thing they do know is that binge eating earlier in life is a precursor of diabetes on down the road.
You can do your own research. Our mileage will always vary but here's a couple.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/8/818
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/binge-eating-disorders.html
I would have to do more research on this, but I wonder about the chicken and egg scenario here ... Like is binge eating CAUSING the diabetes, or are people with a genetic predisposition to decreased insulin sensitivity and hyperinsulinism then predisposed to having binge eating episodes due to issues with satiety and blood sugar fluctuations. Just my initial thoughts. I have PCOS which absolutely affects insulin secretion, although my glucose/A1C are all normal for now. So I guess I feel like it might be a complicated relationship. I haven't done an actual search for current research tho2 -
Oh also, to answer the question of how I came to 1300/1350 calories per day, that's basically taking my 1400-1500 per day and subtracting a little so I can have one day per week at 2000 calories. I've always done better with weight loss when I have at least one day with higher calories, I have felt like it prevents plateaus1
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Diatonic12 wrote: »@Raegold The brain will react. Know that going in. Just begin. It's perfectionism at the root of All or Nothing thinking with food. You're right, these things can start in childhood but as the years go by it turns into something else.
Binge eating and diabetes go hand in hand. What starts out as binge eating in the early years can evolve into diabetes. In the early stages, there's binge eating and then dieting cycles trying to compensate for the binge eating. Eventually, that doesn't work anymore. The weight begins to stack on and it turns into obesity. The wild swings UP and down and back and forth with weight won't fix it anymore. The diabetes diagnosis is lurking and ready to show up on your doorstep. It becomes a total cluster.
The sooner you can get a grip on all of this the better off you'll be. One out of three have diabetes. If I had only known this when I was 20 it would've saved me from yoyo dieting and rebound weight gain with friends.
Which comes first. The binge eating or the diabetes. One thing they do know is that binge eating earlier in life is a precursor of diabetes on down the road.
You can do your own research. Our mileage will always vary but here's a couple.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/8/818
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/binge-eating-disorders.html
This seems overly hyperbolic.
"One in three have diabetes"? No, more like one in ten in the U.S. and one in16 in the U.K.One thing they do know is that binge eating earlier in life is a precursor of diabetes on down the road.
So what? I was a binge eater in early life. I don't have diabetes, never have had it. Cause/correlation.
4 -
Oh also, to answer the question of how I came to 1300/1350 calories per day, that's basically taking my 1400-1500 per day and subtracting a little so I can have one day per week at 2000 calories. I've always done better with weight loss when I have at least one day with higher calories, I have felt like it prevents plateaus
What got you to 1400-1500 per day? Just want to make sure we are the proper ball park...0 -
Oh also, to answer the question of how I came to 1300/1350 calories per day, that's basically taking my 1400-1500 per day and subtracting a little so I can have one day per week at 2000 calories. I've always done better with weight loss when I have at least one day with higher calories, I have felt like it prevents plateaus
What got you to 1400-1500 per day? Just want to make sure we are the proper ball park...
TDEE is about 1900-2000 so I subtracted 500 daily for a 1 lb loss per week-ish. I'm quarantining with my two kids, so I don't always have a lot of exercise, it just depends, but my fitbit usually says I'm around 2000 calories0
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