What are your thoughts on natural bodybuilding?
supercpa999
Posts: 403 Member
What are your thoughts on natural bodybuilding? Specifically, men’s classic physique contests. Do you think natural bodybuilders are too small or are they attractive.
A link describing is below.
https://ocbonline.com/guidelines-classicphysique.php
A link describing is below.
https://ocbonline.com/guidelines-classicphysique.php
1
Replies
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I think that the whole taking steroids to look like an inflated Ken doll thing is just weird and creepy. Natural body building is a more honest sport15
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natural bodybuilding isn't dangerous - steroids can cause damage in so many way.9
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Whether one uses steroids or other enhancers is imperceptible to me. Kinda like people wearing wigs and hair extensions. I can never really tell unless they outright say it.
The look or result is the thing that I would pay attention to. There's a limit to what "looks natural" to me but that could be achieved by someone who is not taking any enhancers. But if we're talking "classic physique" specifically then that's well within my super subjective limits of physical attractiveness.
Ultimately, if a person is happy with how they look and are being followed by an ethical healthcare team then it's none of my business what they want to do with their body.1 -
In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.11 -
@ythannah
I agree with you, It seems like there are always unintended consequences when you put artificial things into your body. Personally I would be afraid to disrupt my health and body’s natural processes.0 -
Natural bodybuilding has become a dieting competition lately, it’s not about who has the most muscle or most pleasing physique it’s who is the most shredded. The federations are supposedly addressing this issue And hopefully a more balanced physique should be seen more on stage
As for the comments about cheating, bodybuilding and powerlifting are more honest than most sports, you have natural federations and non tested federations,5 -
In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.9 -
In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
I'm aware of this; however, you get bigger/better results for the same or less work as an unenhanced body builder.
In the case of my coworker, a middle-aged woman brand new to training doesn't go from slightly flabby to extremely (competition level) muscular in six months' time without "help".6 -
In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
I'm aware of this; however, you get bigger/better results for the same or less work as an unenhanced body builder.
In the case of my coworker, a middle-aged woman brand new to training doesn't go from slightly flabby to extremely (competition level) muscular in six months' time without "help".
Even on steroids, six months is impossible. I have had close personal friends take steroids.2 -
In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.5 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
It's not a lot less work.3 -
I think OCB guys look great and natural is definitely the health conscious choice. Up to how the competitor wants to look.5
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Not a fan of either the very big drug assisted look or the ultra-low body fat non-PED look either. A more natural athletic physique looks better to me.
To me the drugs issue isn't cheating if they are competing against people who are also taking PEDs. It's only cheating if a PED user is competing against a non-drug user or in a "natural" federation.
A comparison would be Lance Armstrong competing against other elite drug taking cyclists was cheating in the sense it was against the rules and prevented non-drug takers getting to the very top but in terms of the top level riders it was a level playing field. Drug assisted body builders competing against other drug assisted bodybuilders still have to put in the work to win.
My bigger concern is the harm to people's health done by the use of PEDs and also the illicit/illegal nature of the drugs trade (supporting criminality). What people think they are taking may also not be what they are actually taking (counterfeit drugs are a huge problem). As an old fart I find it sad that looks take priority over health.
Probably the use of PEDs by uneducated lifters in the non-competitive arena may be a bigger problem. Just like in the drug taking cycling era the deaths were predominately people not knowing what they are doing, the up and coming youngsters self-medicating versus the elites with medical guidance.
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Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
It's not a lot less work.
Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄3 -
Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular.In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lot less work? What is your actual experience with this?Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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STOP. Please. If you're NOT in the actual industry, you really have no idea how much work many of the competitors put in. They train hard or even harder than naturals because PED's help them to recover faster. I'm NOT advocating PED's nor have I ever personally taken any, but to give out misinformation based on your own anecdotal observations is disingenuous.Dogmom1978 wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
It's not a lot less work.
Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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The biggest issue with PED's and bodybuilding is the total abuse of it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 7 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
It's not a lot less work.
Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄
No, it's not less work. It enhances the results of people with an existing extraordinary work ethic. I know a lot of guys on stuff that look average because their work ethic is average. No, I'm not natural but it's not uncommon for me to puke mid workout, I've passed out, I've burst blood vessels in my eyes deadlifting and I've been like that since before I went to the dark side. I'll say it again; stick a needle in the butt of a guy that puts in average effort, you won't notice a thing. It's not a shortcut, it's a road to a physical place you can't get to naturally IF YOU WORK EXTREMELY HARD. That's kinda like saying running a marathon is a shortcut to walking a half marathon because you got there quicker. And cheating? What did I win? Who did I screw over, who's the victim? By that logic, makeup is cheating.11 -
Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular.In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.2 -
Actually steroids put on muscle and increase strength regardless of any training stimulus, these studies have been around for decades
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Bill Campbell has been going over the studies again recently
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I don't find bodybuilding attractive. Give me a guy with a little belly. I'd not want to spend my time with a guy who things he needs to have big muscles. And likely spends too much time in the gym and counting protein intake. And the farts!2
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It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.
Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.1 -
It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.
Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.
To the contrary, the whole point of pursuing natural bodybuilding is to not revert to steroids or growth hormone or any other body cocktail.
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IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.
It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.
It's not a lot less work.
Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄
No, it's not less work. It enhances the results of people with an existing extraordinary work ethic. I know a lot of guys on stuff that look average because their work ethic is average. No, I'm not natural but it's not uncommon for me to puke mid workout, I've passed out, I've burst blood vessels in my eyes deadlifting and I've been like that since before I went to the dark side. I'll say it again; stick a needle in the butt of a guy that puts in average effort, you won't notice a thing. It's not a shortcut, it's a road to a physical place you can't get to naturally IF YOU WORK EXTREMELY HARD. That's kinda like saying running a marathon is a shortcut to walking a half marathon because you got there quicker. And cheating? What did I win? Who did I screw over, who's the victim? By that logic, makeup is cheating.
I wouldn't say that makeup is cheating because it's (usually) obvious that it's unnatural and (usually) not pretending to be to be natural. None of us were born with iridescent eyelids and shiny scarlet lips and sparkly cheekbones.
Breast implants I'd consider as cheating. You're augmenting the natural body with something unnatural to enhance its appearance. (With apologies to anyone who has them. If they were important to you, that's cool.)0 -
It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.
Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.
Nope this is a myth, assuming you continue to train hard and eat right you can keep most of your gains. Scientific studies have showed this, there's a muscle memory effect after taking steroids, the same process that applies to weightlifting.
It has been shown that athlete remain at an advantage years after stopping steroids, that's why the Olympics want to ban cheaters forever.
Here are some links :
https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/7820
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190125084106.htm
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-24730151
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Actually steroids put on muscle and increase strength regardless of any training stimulus, these studies have been around for decades
For those that disagree please post your evidence, Its a classic study and clearly shows that sitting on your back side while taking 600mg pw of testosterone will grow significant amount of muscle
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172?rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org2 -
Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular.In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular.In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.
It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing
and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me. 1
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