Finding a happy medium?

ReenieHJ wrote: »

My vegan dd is home for 10 days. I've always been intrigued and willing to go vegetarian, maybe even vegan. So my dd and I got into a deep discussion about acceptable, healthy foods, vs. what's allowed/not allowed, ingredients, processed, etc. She knows a lot about a lot of it and I am just barely dipping my toes in. But it's very confusing to me.
My brain seems to want either all or nothing. Currently my head is spinning with all the newfound knowledge and areas to explore.

I can see myself cutting out meat entirely because all I eat now are bits of chicken. But the dairy part would be challenging. So I'm thinking of making the complete break from meat, then go from there. For me, it'd be mostly an ethical decision, which leaves me feeling hypocritical for buying meat for dh and my dogs.

For all you vegetarians out there, how do you handle the different feelings, expectations from others, years and years of habits, and everything else while making a change like this?

Ideally, if I could make these changes for good, I'd:

1. go entirely plant-based
2. stop using any un-natural sugars
3. cut out my coffee

Just curious as to why you feel the need to make things harder on yourself by also implementing # 2 and 3? How about letting being veg* settle in for a few months before tackling sugars and coffee as well?

I've been vegan for over thirteen years now. For me, it was something I contemplated for a while and when I did it, I just jumped right in. That's one approach. There are also people who approach it in stages. Sometimes they'll do it by giving up the things that seem most immediately objectionable and unjustified. Other people will give up things in perceived level of difficulty. For example, I knew someone who first went to all plant-based dinners and lunches because it was hard for them to think of a breakfast that didn't involve animal products. Once they felt more comfortable, they made the adjustment for breakfast as well. You don't have to satisfy anyone's time table but your own.

Anecdotally, from the accounts I've heard, I can't say that one method seems to lead to longer term success than the other. I think it's more about finding the approach that works well for an individual.

Quite honestly, I went vegan in a rather petty attempt to prove that it was too difficult and that I didn't need to feel morally obligated to do it. I had been feeling worse and worse about how animals were being treated, but I perceived veganism as impossible for me. So I told myself I'd do it for two weeks, basically to prove that I didn't need to feel bad about NOT doing it. But the two weeks went by with barely a hiccup. It turns out that the foods I thought I couldn't live without were rather easily replaced by other things and it felt much better to live in a way that was more aligned with my ethical positions than it did to eat string cheese.

So my feelings: well, pretty much chagrin that I'd made such a big deal out of it.

Expectations from others were not much of a factor for me. The only person whose opinion on the matter was relevant to me was my husband, who did not go vegan and has no interest in doing so. Having a vegan partner would doubtlessly make household life easier and I won't deny there would be a certain appeal in sharing convictions on something that matters so much to me. But he predated the veganism and is incredibly dear to me and we've found a way to share a household happily. He wishes I could share some food experiences with him, I wish he'd wake up with a different position on animal exploitation. Just about every marriage, I imagine, has SOME kind of "I wish" and he fulfills so many of my other wishes for a mate, I can't be greedy!

As far as everyone else: My family and friends know that I'm vegan, many co-workers and casual associates don't. I'll bring it up if it seems directly relevant, otherwise not. The people who know are either supportive or don't care. People on the internet can be more aggressive or hostile about it, but that's the way it is with EVERYTHING. It's not limited to veganism.

As far as habits, all my habits involving animal exploitation could either be eliminated or adapted. There may be moments of keen disappointment, like a cake that looks really delicious. Oh no, everyone else is having this cake and I'm NOT because I don't WANT the cake, but obviously I DO want the cake . . . In my experience, continued adherence makes it easier. I heard someone on a podcast say one time that if you have the courage to make the big decisions about what matters to you, then all the small decisions are made. For me, veganism was the BIG DECISION that the process that brought the cake (or the chimichanga or the latte etc etc) to my plate was not acceptable and I was unwilling to support it. I acknowledge my disappointment at the loss of that particular sensation and move on. In the early days, I would always make sure I had some treats at work so I didn't have to feel like I was "going without." If there was a cake at work, you could be sure I'd be making myself a big vegan cake that weekend! I no longer have to do that. In a way, it's a lot of the same sort of adjustments that long term weight management involves. Acknowledge your desire, know the type of person you want to be, and find a way to meet the desire in a way that still honors your goals.

This is another reason why I usually don't recommend that people try to go vegan and make other huge changes at the same time. It was a lot easier to say to myself "I'll have this candy instead" or "I'll have these chips instead" than it would have been to say "no candy period." That's just me.

My husband and I usually grocery shop separately because that's just how we roll. But if I am going to the store and he asks for some milk or meat, I will get it for him because it feels incredibly petty to allow our joint funds to purchase animal products but draw some line at actually swiping the credit card myself. And I'm not going to ban animal foods all together because you just don't do that to another adult. Our dog gets meat as well. I personally am convinced by the evidence that dogs can safely eat a meat-free diet, but my husband isn't and I don't believe I should make unilateral decisions for a dog we care for together. Some vegans would have issues with both of the above, other vegans make similar choices. That's the thing about veganism -- it's an attempt to live a life based on a coherent ethical position in the midst of a society that has animal exploitation completely interwoven into it at multiple levels. As a result, vegans take a multiplicity of positions on some situations and debates are frequent. Some vegans even think it's wrong to be in the same room as people eating meat without making it uncomfortable -- that's their moral conviction, that they have a duty to stand up.

If YOU would feel hypocritical buying meat in those situations, it's worth exploring why. My take: even if you still wind up participating in some elements of animal exploitation, would it be worth it to reduce your other participation, the stuff you know you can give up? For me, the answer would be YES. I would not feel like a better person if I began eating bacon just because my dog eats meat. I would feel worse, I would feel like I was taking the position that if we can't do everything then it doesn't matter who we hurt.

I'm not arguing you take my position, I'm saying you should think it through and figure out what your values are and what matters to you. What do you think is wrong about exploiting animals for food or other purposes? What level of participation in that are you willing to accept? What does it mean to say animals deserve a certain level of treatment and what does it mean to say it doesn't matter how we treat them because they exist to satisfy our desires? You don't have to have answers to those questions before you go vegan -- I didn't and my answers have evolved over time as I've thought about the issues. But thinking about these questions will help you determine what the limits and guidelines of your veganism (if you choose to adopt it) are and it makes navigating individual situations easier.

Veganism got easier for me when I realized it wasn't a situation of "all or nothing" or fitting my life to a list of rules, but instead it was me answering a question of who I was, what I was willing to do to others, and whether or not I thought animals were individuals with a legitimate interest in their own life and a real ability to feel pain and distress on a level that is worth acknowledging. After that, a lot of decisions just fell into place. Others, like "how do I deal with non-vegan loved ones?" and "what should we feed domestic cats?" don't have great, easy, comforting answers. But I mean, isn't that life? Most of us are already trying to make sure our actions reflect our values. Veganism is just taking the values many of us already have and applies them to animals.

(Okay, sorry I wrote SOOOO much but this hit on one of my passions).

janejellyroll wrote: »

ReenieHJ wrote: »

@AnnPT77 You always have lots of premium advice and words of wisdom!! Thank you for your input. AND the link!!

That website is first rate, it's my go-to for evidence-based vegan nutritional information.

FTR, I got it from one of your posts, have used it multiple times since. Very level-headed, well-organized, factual. Good stuff.

Reenie, you can choose by an act of your will to leave the All or Nothing approach to food in the dust. We learn these things in childhood. We observe others saying and believing there's nothing but all or nothing. We identify with their narrative and define our life by it. We can rid ourselves of it. It's their story but it doesn't have to be ours.

It's based on perfectionism. We rarely get all but get mostly nothing from the All or Nothing thinking about food. It affects every area of our life. It goes far beyond food.

All of the dieting followed by making plans for the next food explosion that's going to happen. Eating all of the things. It's a self-perpetuating cycle that can become a self-induced food prison with food. A non-stop looper that results in starting over and over and over again.

We can get off this merry-go-round.