Refeed Plans - preferences?

Wow, you have managed to make refeeds infinitely more complicated than they need to be...

Really, it's up to you, based on your lifestyle (what suits) and your goals.

For physiological benefit, a refeed needs to be at least two days of high carb intake (with cals at maintenance). So your version for with a day in the middle of the week really won't do anything much from that perspective, but the psychological factor of having a nice lunch out may be important to you. Also remember that every day you're eating at maintenance, you're not in a deficit (obviously), and therefore slowing weight loss. If you're happy with that, cool.

I did weekend refeeds for a few months while dropping some vanity weight in late 2017 (which is where the infamous Refeeds and Diet Breaks thread sprang from). In terms of frequency, it was overkill for my needs, level of body fat, etc, but made getting that weight off oh so easy.

I'm a little confused about what you're doing calorie-wise, using such old data may not be helpful, and also you're including data from when you were substantially heavier and burning more calories because of that. If you're currently eating 1650 and maintaining, then that's maintenance. Also, do you mean TDEE, rather than BMR? If you've gained 7-8lbs with the refeeds you've done so far, you're doing them at a surplus, not maintenance. So, I think you need to take a look at that again. I'm going to beetlejuice @heybales in here to help with that.

BMR means basal metabolic rate, the amount of calories you burn at complete rest. For weight loss that's pretty much a theoretical number, it's only a part of the total amount of calories you burn.

maverick4x4 wrote: »

Lietchi wrote: »

BMR means basal metabolic rate, the amount of calories you burn at complete rest. For weight loss that's pretty much a theoretical number, it's only a part of the total amount of calories you burn.

BMR is a term that I'm familiar with and understand what it means but I've been discounting or ignoring exercise calories on purpose. TDEE is a term I was not familiar with but upon looking it I see if it is simply BMR plus exercise/activity. I can see why TDEE is a more accurate term to use in these discussions and I will do so. Thanks!

Just to be fully precise (for the benefit of others who might be reading as well), TDEE is BMR + TEF (energy to process food) + NEAT (non exercise activity) + exercise
But yeah, TDEE is indeed more relevant when talking about maintenance, deficits and surpluses 🙂

I'll mention a couple of other diet methods that take care of the hormonal issue in studies.

The 5:2 partial fast method - gives an overall 22% deficit weekly. Works if you have consistent workouts/daily activity and avg weekly TDEE can be estimated.
5 days eat at avg TDEE, 2 non-consecutive days eat at 25% of avg TDEE.

Got to have a workout program that can support that, with weight lifting only it can be hard, as usually 24 hrs after lifting is recovery when body would really like those extra calories, so day after lifting not good for 25% TDEE. Unless you lift in morning and eat all day - then following day may be just fine.

Alternate week deficit method - can use MFP as designed in variable workouts and such, but need to log correctly.
1 week eat at TDEE.
1 week eat at deficit.
Simple as that - the study had rather big deficits and still had no issues with hormones going back to normal because they barely took a dip in just a week - so what would be an unreasonable deficit for extended can be done.
Can work well with lifting - expect no progress on deficit week - really pound it out on TDEE weeks.


Both of those diet methods likely would take care of the mental issue Lyle attempts to take care of by having a 1 day refeed that he knows is not useful for hormones. Both don't need high carb days because at least 50% of the days are normal anyway at TDEE.

Both methods probably benefit attempting a baseline TDEE week with no diet prior to starting them.

I could never get the 5:2 into my schedule, though I could easily do the 25% aspect since I IF anyway and get stupid late sometimes for dinner, due to things, and am not hungry.

Alternate week is easy, and my preferred method near end of winter doing lifting, to drop some bulking weight before biking season starts up. Can keep progressing on lifts and not a mental challenge at all. You get used to 1st couple days starting deficit to feel a tad hungry, just means drinking more fluids I was really lacking anyway.

ETA - Sardelsa reminded me doing alternate week, the Mon coming into deficit was still a good workout since just had refed so long, so only 2 workouts on deficit week weren't great.

If you are going to have fun with data to estimate TDEE, for days/weeks that life now matched back then - and you were actively losing weight, couple recommendations if the weight is different now, considering you seem to have big water weight fluctuations.

Only include weeks with a loss. Nothing from the 15 months that is likely bad logging.
Don't include the 1st week after getting back on a diet from a break. Water weight change ruins math.
Note your avg weight at that time, and BMR at the time. Mifflin BMR formula easy to find.
I'd do weekly data lines in spreadsheet for that 40 lb loss.
Each week pull an estimated TDEE based on logged eaten and amount lost and weight, and divide by BMR to get your activity level at the time. Note which weeks seem like same schedule as now if you have lots of differences, or which weeks to leave out may be easier.
Pull an avg activity level factor on the similar weeks.

If your activity level is similar now at current weight, current BMR x activity factor = current TDEE at whatever level of accuracy food logging was.
If sloppy, keep it sloppy. Your number is based on that being the same.


Your first post sounds a little odd talking of following one of those plans with deficit when you are at maintenance level.
There is no deficit at maintenance. Not on average.
Now, some people may have some carb cycling going on to benefit lifting, or at least eat more on recovery 24 hrs and less before the workout - but on avg there is no deficit.
Those plans you reference are with deficit, where a refeed is desired. Won't need those.

maverick4x4 wrote: »

July check in: Still doing 5 deficit, 2 maintenance. Sun-Mon are maintenance at 2100ish. Tues-Sat are deficit at 1600ish.

Weight Jumped from mid-190s to 202 at Thanksgiving with first refeed. has ranged from 205-210 since. 10-15 lbs...sadly probably not all water weight

Strength came up a bit, but so did the fluff (waist and moobs).

I think I've had a lot of days where I was up to 200 over on the deficit days...and then 300-500ish over on the maintenance days. Planned weekly total: 12,200. Actual: 14,000-15,000. If 2100 was truly a maintenance value, that would be 14,700 cal/week. Looking back over the last 25 weeks, many weekly averages between 1850-1950, and a few between 2000-2200. Weekly average should be 1742. I've only hit that 6 times in '21.

So...I've been maintaining. Great. Still fairly lean, and like I said, stronger, but not as lean as I'd like to be. I'm not as lean as at 195...I'd like to get back to that level of lean and maintain there (whatever weight that is).

Eating stricter the last 4 weeks...no real change yet on the scale, but maybe noticeable? (comments at the gym).

So...do I continue with the program I'm doing and just execute it better, or try something different for a while? Hoping to look a little better for a trip to the beach in early August.

I'd say if that method isn't getting you there - modify.
Sure you could say hold to the plan better - but maybe it really doesn't work out well for you.

Have you tried alternating weeks, since a maintenance week so often, can be a tad more unreasonable on the diet side - if you can handle it.

Or, if you have a couple days of lower activity, there's the 5:2 diet that gives an average 22% deficit.
5 days eating at maintenance, 2 days eating 25% of maintenance.
May be hard mental challenge, but you can just keep saying "till tomorrow" just twice a week.

But either way gotta adhere to the plan. Just about making the plan perhaps a tad easier to follow.