MFP is ignoring my stated goals
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What did you eat when you were gaining weight? How much and what? How fast were you gaining?1
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Could you be an outlier? Of course you could be. There are 7.5+ billion people on this planet. The whole of MFP could be outliers if every single outlier signed up!
On the other hand if someone told you that you had a 95% chance to succeed in something, you would take it as a given that you would succeed. So chances are pretty good you're not an egregiously outlying outlier.
And being an outlier doesn't change the principles of calories in calories out, it just changes the numbers. If you really think you're an outlier, and you can afford it, you could get your metabolism tested. If you haven't already had that done.
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norman_cates wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »If you are TOO CLOSE TO GOAL to lose 1KG per week safely, you will be set to the default lowest calorie setting - 1200 for women and 1500 for men.
How can I be too close to the goal? I'm 10kg (or more) away
Believe it or not, that's a TINY amount of weight to need to lose. Many of us would consider those Vanity Pounds.
Stop trying to lose a kg per week. So near goal, you should be losing no more than 1/2 percent of your current weight per week. If you weigh 75kg, that means you should be expecting to lose no more than 375 Grams per week.8 -
norman_cates wrote: »norman_cates wrote: »But I guarantee that if I don't lose weight or god forbid gain weight that there will be a bunch of people jumping upo and down saying that I lied. Because they can't believe any paradigm that goes against the holy book of calories in, calories out.
No-one will say that you 'lied', just that you were making errors in tracking the calories that you consumed. Because calories in/calories out isn't a holy book - it's science...
Apparently it's not, because many fitness people disagree with it. Just like they all have different things they think work. If this was a science, there would be broad agreement. There isn't.
It is science - the way to lose excess fat is to consume fewer calories than you expend. There IS a broad agreement on this - however, how one goes about doing it is where people offer different methods. Anyone claiming to provide advice on fitness whilst disagreeing with the fundamental principle should probably be avoided.
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norman_cates wrote: »norman_cates wrote: »But I guarantee that if I don't lose weight or god forbid gain weight that there will be a bunch of people jumping upo and down saying that I lied. Because they can't believe any paradigm that goes against the holy book of calories in, calories out.
No-one will say that you 'lied', just that you were making errors in tracking the calories that you consumed. Because calories in/calories out isn't a holy book - it's science...
Apparently it's not, because many fitness people disagree with it. Just like they all have different things they think work. If this was a science, there would be broad agreement. There isn't.
What credible person denies that calorie balance is what determines whether one loses, maintains, or gains?
Plenty of people think counting cals is not a sustainable strategy on average and that there are better ways to approach weight loss, but that's different from denying that calories are what actually determine what happens on the scale.11 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »norman_cates wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »If you are TOO CLOSE TO GOAL to lose 1KG per week safely, you will be set to the default lowest calorie setting - 1200 for women and 1500 for men.
How can I be too close to the goal? I'm 10kg (or more) away
Believe it or not, that's a TINY amount of weight to need to lose. Many of us would consider those Vanity Pounds.
Stop trying to lose a kg per week. So near goal, you should be losing no more than 1/2 percent of your current weight per week. If you weigh 75kg, that means you should be expecting to lose no more than 375 Grams per week.
I'm basically 90kg. Aiming at 80 (or 75 if the BMI is to be believed. Which is isn't.)1 -
What credible person denies that calorie balance is what determines whether one loses, maintains, or gains?
Plenty of people think counting cals is not a sustainable strategy on average and that there are better ways to approach weight loss, but that's different from denying that calories are what actually determine what happens on the scale.
I can only go on my experience that I could show you all IF MFP hadn't lost my data off the website.
Of course, then you will all go "he must have eaten that 3500-4000 calories a week extra without noticing."
Which is possible... But am I really so self deceiving not to have noticed?1 -
It is science - the way to lose excess fat is to consume fewer calories than you expend. There IS a broad agreement on this - however, how one goes about doing it is where people offer different methods. Anyone claiming to provide advice on fitness whilst disagreeing with the fundamental principle should probably be avoided.
Also, it's not just fat, you can lose muscle mass as well. Which is my fear. Because then metabolism drops even further.
Calories in, calories out is only about weight as we know. It does not have to be fat, it could be ANY part that can be metabolised.
Same with a calorie excess for gaining muscle. Making that aim at muscles, and not turn into fat is the problem. At least for some of us.
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What did you eat when you were gaining weight? How much and what? How fast were you gaining?
I didn't say I gained weight. I said I stayed the same.
And I wish I could show you in my diary. But MFP have lost that data. It's on my phone, but they are incompetent to get it off and sync it back into their system.
But also, why does it matter? There are people in this thread insisting that it's ONLY calories in, calories out that matters. So it makes no difference if I eat those calories in ice cream and skittles or meats and vegetables for weight changes.
I'm SURE it makes a difference for the kinds of weight I gain. Fat or muscle.1 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »norman_cates wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »If you are TOO CLOSE TO GOAL to lose 1KG per week safely, you will be set to the default lowest calorie setting - 1200 for women and 1500 for men.
How can I be too close to the goal? I'm 10kg (or more) away
Believe it or not, that's a TINY amount of weight to need to lose. Many of us would consider those Vanity Pounds.
Stop trying to lose a kg per week. So near goal, you should be losing no more than 1/2 percent of your current weight per week. If you weigh 75kg, that means you should be expecting to lose no more than 375 Grams per week.
How is 10kg tiny? It's over 10% of my body weight. Currently 90kg.
Sorry but I can see the unsightly spare tire. The flabby belly. Of course, my body loses fat off the extremities first so my belly is the one to gain fat first, or lose it last. Surgery maybe? Who knows.
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norman_cates wrote: »What did you eat when you were gaining weight? How much and what? How fast were you gaining?
I didn't say I gained weight. I said I stayed the same.
And I wish I could show you in my diary. But MFP have lost that data. It's on my phone, but they are incompetent to get it off and sync it back into their system.
But also, why does it matter? There are people in this thread insisting that it's ONLY calories in, calories out that matters. So it makes no difference if I eat those calories in ice cream and skittles or meats and vegetables for weight changes.
I'm SURE it makes a difference for the kinds of weight I gain. Fat or muscle.
Protein matters for what you gain or lose, sure. And having a smaller deficit actually makes it more likely that you will lose more fat and less muscle as a percentage of your overall lose (as does the type of exercise you do). So if you want to lose more fat, less muscle, going for a 1 kg deficit or super low cals appropriate for small sedentary women seems counterproductive.
Food choice makes a difference as to how likely you are to actually stick to your deficit, for most, and could be relevant to a problem with tracking, if there is one. Some foods (higher protein, lower fat meat, nuts and seeds, and higher fiber foods in general) also MAY have their cals somewhat overstated, based on some studies, so there might be a minor effect where you seem to be eating more cals than you actually are if you focus on those foods.
Also, I haven't seen anyone saying calories are all that matter in general -- nutrition matters for health and likely food choice matters for satiety and accuracy and not blowing it all with a binge at some point. But yes, calories are what determine weight loss, gain, or maintenance.
If you think you were maintaining while eating some tiny number of cals (like 1500), it likely is a tracking issue, although the calculators are just an estimate so your maintenance could be lower than you think too (but again, 1500 seems impossible -- mine is higher than that even without intentional exercise and I'm a 5'3, 125 lb woman). If you think food choice makes a difference, it certainly doesn't hurt to make sensible food choices (although calories are ultimately what determines loss, gain, etc.).7 -
Does the food you eat matter for muscle retention?
Sure... just not the way you think.
You will retain muscles that you USE (appropriate stimulus, probably via appropriate exercise being the primary driver there), are younger and more male (hormone levels), the closer you are to an energy surplus (ergo the smaller your deficit) and assuming you provide adequate protein (too little is bad, too much is relatively useless though ok for most though detrimental if it ends up crowding out other foods that would be more useful overall).
Whether the complete and digestible and available to your body protein comes from dirty and sugar polluted ice cream or glacier grown snow white extra clean fish or a cheap-*kitten* combination of dried lentils and rice in a broth makes no difference to your body in terms of being able to use that protein to protect your muscles.
Would having an adequate variety of healthy foods (vegetables, fruits), good quality proteins, and appropriate healthy fats make a difference in terms of satiety and nutrition? Absolutely.
Would having the occasional fun calories make a difference in your mental balance and ability to maintain your way of eating for several years? Absolutely.
If you're that worried about muscle retention you would be less worried about your absolute weight and more focused on how you could maintain an adequate exercise program. Absent that drive to strength train (which for example I personally do NOT, currently, have), your next best bet is... you guessed it... reasonable deficits with sufficient protein and a varied and healthy diet that does include a reasonable amount of treats!
Starting from a position of hate doesn't get you far. So you hate the status quo enough to motivate you to change it. Great. Now explore BETTER ALTERNATIVES you can keep doing for a long time to come.
If you want to determine your exact caloric balance:
-- weigh everything you're going to eat or drink.
-- log it BEFORE it crosses your lips.
-- realize that packages don't always list the calories for the totality of the contents.
-- ml mostly equal grams but not always (for example with high fat or high volume items such as ice cream or whipped cream grams are way fewer than ml)
-- weigh yourself daily and under consistent conditions on an UNYIELDING floor
-- use a weight trend application or web site
review your expected weight change over 3+ weeks and compare to your weight trend change (female 4-5 weeks including a hormonal cycle and compare to same points in cycle)
Note that weigh ins for 2-3 days after high sodium meals, airplane travel, or exercise where you felt the burn are likely to include a few lbs of water weight.7 -
Just ignore MFP's recommendations and projections. Go with what works for you. And switch off that setting that tries to refund exercise calories to your daily target - it's as inaccurate as eyeballing the calories in a peanut butter sandwich.1
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Just ignore MFP's recommendations and projections. Go with what works for you. And switch off that setting that tries to refund exercise calories to your daily target - it's as inaccurate as eyeballing the calories in a peanut butter sandwich.
It's really not. Yes, there are inaccurate ways to measure calories burnt through activity. But there are more accurate ways to do it also. And you can also compare your results to the estimates and make the appropriate adjustments. Assuming you burn *some* calories through exercise is way more accurate than assuming you're burning zero (which is what you're doing when you ignore physical activity completely).5 -
Just ignore MFP's recommendations and projections. Go with what works for you. And switch off that setting that tries to refund exercise calories to your daily target - it's as inaccurate as eyeballing the calories in a peanut butter sandwich.
Yeah, that is a Premium setting though. Everyone else can't. So long as it let you get the numbers separately at some level ti should be fine. I try not to let it "fool" me into thinking I can eat more...2 -
norman_cates wrote: »
It is science - the way to lose excess fat is to consume fewer calories than you expend. There IS a broad agreement on this - however, how one goes about doing it is where people offer different methods. Anyone claiming to provide advice on fitness whilst disagreeing with the fundamental principle should probably be avoided.
Also, it's not just fat, you can lose muscle mass as well. Which is my fear. Because then metabolism drops even further.
Calories in, calories out is only about weight as we know. It does not have to be fat, it could be ANY part that can be metabolised.
Same with a calorie excess for gaining muscle. Making that aim at muscles, and not turn into fat is the problem. At least for some of us.
You can't 'aim' at muscle rather than fat if eating in a surplus (bulking) when trying to increase muscle mass - which is achieved by resistance training whilst you are eating over your maintenance calories in order to fuel muscle growth. You will inevitably gain both. Then you have to cut (eat in a deficit and lose the fat again) to reveal the muscle you have gained. Whilst still doing resistance training...
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norman_cates wrote: »Just ignore MFP's recommendations and projections. Go with what works for you. And switch off that setting that tries to refund exercise calories to your daily target - it's as inaccurate as eyeballing the calories in a peanut butter sandwich.
Yeah, that is a Premium setting though. Everyone else can't. So long as it let you get the numbers separately at some level ti should be fine. I try not to let it "fool" me into thinking I can eat more...
You will be able to see your base calories plus the calories burnt through exercise, but the intention isn't to "fool" you. It's to ensure you're eating to support your physical activity.6 -
But if you're trying to eat in a calorie deficit, you don't want calories to support your activity.
'Eating Back' exercise calories can easily hold people back from losing weight.
https://9-to-5-nutrition.com/calorie-deficit-not-losing-weight/0 -
Your link doesn't support that claim. Instead, it recommends using TDEE, which includes estimated exercise cals. That's an okay method if someone has pretty consistent exercise on a weekly basis and doesn't have an issue eating the same cals daily (it might not be ideal for people with really high cardio days). If someone tends to have more inconsistent exercise, it is probably safer to use the MFP method.
Also, this thread is from months ago.2
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