Does the calorie deficit work?
Replies
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@tinkerbellang83 thanks for the clarification. I'm nervous I am going to sabotage myself on accident.
I fully plan to switch over to a new goal of 1 or 1.5 lbs per week loss if I feel limited and am looking forward to switching over to the maintain weight goal when I get to my goal.
I have such a hard time know what "obese" even means the BMI charts seem so tough. My goal is 150 lbs. That is the smallest I would have ever been. But I would still be "overweight" according to BMI. However 145 lbs would be "normal" on BMI.0 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@tinkerbellang83 thanks for the clarification. I'm nervous I am going to sabotage myself on accident.
I fully plan to switch over to a new goal of 1 or 1.5 lbs per week loss if I feel limited and am looking forward to switching over to the maintain weight goal when I get to my goal.
I have such a hard time know what "obese" even means the BMI charts seem so tough. My goal is 150 lbs. That is the smallest I would have ever been. But I would still be "overweight" according to BMI. However 145 lbs would be "normal" on BMI.
BMI is just a range and it's not right for everyone, I was pretty happy and had a healthy hip-to-waist ratio at 200lb which is still "Obese" in BMI terms, I do however weight lift and do long distance rowing, so I am all muscle across the shoulders and upper arms. You can always adjust your goals as you go, you don't have to be rigid in them.
The only way you'll end up not losing weight is eating over maintenance. Weight loss neither has to be complicated or miserable
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No she is horribly wrong.
Calories are a uniform unit of measurement of energy, the phrase "calories are not the same" identifies someone who either cannot understand that food and calories are not the same thing or they believe in myths.
Would you trust someone who said watts, miles or grams are not all the same?
Being overweight you will have a high metabolism, all of the component parts of your body require energy to work. Another sign your family member doesn't know what they are talking about. Eating 6 times a day would be foolish for someone trying to lose weight unless grazing all day actually helped them stay within their calorie allowance. Imagine filling up the fuel tank of your car - does it matter how many times you top it up or is the total amount of fuel you put is the really important factor?
You don't eat more to lose weight, you eat less. Frequency of eating is personal and only really a factor for adherence to make the process as easy / less difficult as possible.
Your excess body fat is due to you over-eating calories for a long period of time, that excess of energy is stored as fat. To use up that energy you need a calorie deficit. Simple as that, there's no tricks or shortcuts.
The only way to lose weight is to be determined and accept you have to change. Keeping it off also requires determination and discipline. It's not easy but it can be very simple.
This is gold (as usual). Tinkerbell and Lietchi are also giving great advice. OP read the success threads when you get discouraged, they can pick you up. There are people that have lost over 100 lbs and they are in a wheelchair. As for a bikini competition, that takes a lot of discipline and a certain mindset. The same rules of CICO apply, but have to be used in a different way. It's not for you. I'd suggest you take your measurements weekly or monthly and when the scale doesn't move you can pull out that tape measure and physically see your loss. Your mind will play tricks on you as you move along.
And ,yes, you have to change your calorie goal as you move along and your weight changes. A lighter body burns fewer calories. I am also concerned that it's already at the lowest you can have--no wiggle room. Remember, he wins who eats the most and still loses. Good luck.8 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@tinkerbellang83 I dont think 2 lbs per week sound too agressive, I'm willing to do the work and I still get 1200 after upping my activity level.
Could this setting be stalling my progress?
2lbs per week is massive! I'm not sure you've told us what your current weight, size and age is. You said you want to lose 40lbs. Lets say you're 180lbs, ok? I take 168cm and an age of 40 for the heck of it.
This would give you roughly 1870 calories per day to maintain your weight if you were sedentary.
In order to lose 2lbs per week you'd need to eat 1000 calories less per day.
1870-1000 = 870 calories to lose 2lbs per week.
You should never eat below 1200 calories because it's not healthy, your body burns through muscles and won't have enough energy to power your organs well enough. Again: you might feel fine on that for a while, but it's not healthy. That's why MFP gives you 1200 calories if you chose a too aggressive goal.
Thus, unless your current maintenance calories are at least 2200 calories per day there's no way you will lose 2lbs per week. As you get lighter the calorie need of your body goes down: there's less energy needed to move blood around, to actually move your body when you move, etc. So at a certain time your maintenance calories will be 1700 calories. So what then? You eat 1200 calories then your daily deficit is 500 calories, or a loss of 1lbs per week. No, you still should absolutely not go below 1200 calories then because it's still unhealthy.5 -
a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. it doesn't matter if its bread, chocolate, or broccoli. But one of those has more NUTRITION.
not all calories are nutritional.
I lost 130 pounds, eating the same things I pretty much always have, with very few modifications, other than HOW MUCH I ate and increasing my activity level. But you do not need to exercise to lose weight. a calorie deficit is all that is needed.
you lose weight in the kitchen.
you gain fitness in the gym.10 -
@yirara
I am 29, I will turn 30 in August. I am 5'4" and currently sitting at 189, my goal is to reach 150 (even though I will still be considered oberweight, I'm trying to be realistic). All of those facts hard for me to admit.
I know I need to be patient (never a strong suit of mine) but I am staying at 189 on the scale for a week seems like I am probably doing something wrong. If my calories in are correct and my out are correct I should be losing consistently. I have thought and re-thought how I am measuring but I am using a food scale and measuring as accurately as I feel I can.
I have seen other sources say that my fitness pal often over calculates how many calories you should get back for exercise so it is best not to use those calories.
Your explanation of calories as I lose weight seems to only support that I should keep my calorie goal at the lowest 1200 especially since I may be making errors in measuring or my fit bit as I hear might be over counting my exercise.3 -
One thing I have been trying to reassure myself with is a post someone made on here about the phases of being on MFP. This time line would put me in phase 2 where you don't lose scale weight but see body changes for the whole second month of your journey.
Did you also find that true?0 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@yirara
I am 29, I will turn 30 in August. I am 5'4" and currently sitting at 189, my goal is to reach 150 (even though I will still be considered oberweight, I'm trying to be realistic). All of those facts hard for me to admit.
I know I need to be patient (never a strong suit of mine) but I am staying at 189 on the scale for a week seems like I am probably doing something wrong. If my calories in are correct and my out are correct I should be losing consistently. I have thought and re-thought how I am measuring but I am using a food scale and measuring as accurately as I feel I can.
I have seen other sources say that my fitness pal often over calculates how many calories you should get back for exercise so it is best not to use those calories.
Your explanation of calories as I lose weight seems to only support that I should keep my calorie goal at the lowest 1200 especially since I may be making errors in measuring or my fit bit as I hear might be over counting my exercise.
There is only one amount that is likely to be absolutely incorrect when it comes to calories burned due to exercise (hint - it's zero). MFP can be out, as it's all estimates. The only way to find out is to eat some of them back and see how your weight loss looks over 4-6 weeks. But 400 calories for exercise doesn't seem like a huge amount for someone doing as many steps as you're doing.
Not seeing weight change on the scale doesn't mean you aren't losing consistently, it just means the scale hasn't yet caught up, you really need to try and work on this patience thing. There will be times the scale doesn't show a loss, there'll be time it shows a gain too possibly. TRUST THE PROCESS!
At your stats, even at Lightly Active (which only accounts for around 5000 steps per day) your maintenance would be around 2200 calories so as long as you're eating below that, you will lose weight. I'd also point out you are doing double those steps per day.
When you get to your last 15-20lbs you'd be maintain at around 2050, but you'd also be needing to drop your rate of loss down to 0.5lbs per week.
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Hey hun, I understand that you want to lose the weight as quickly as possible. It's great you're using a foodscale. If you want to open up your diary then we could have a look on whether there are some obvious mistakes, like wrong database entries (yes, the database is entered by users).
And yes, one week is totally not a plateau. Are you weighing once per week or daily? If once per week then you might be hitting a day where you just happen to hold onto a bit more water (about 60% in our bodies is water! and it constantly fluctuates a bit), more food waste in your intestines, maybe the start of your menstruation, a bit more salt on food, or maybe the scale is not on a solid hard surface or needs new batteries. Thus one week really is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
You know, when I was losing weight I'd not lose for about 2 weeks, and then I had 1-2 nights where I constantly had to pee at night. This is how my body seems to lose weight: constantly lose a bit of fat, but store a roughly similar weight of additional water. So nothing happened on the scale until that odd night came.5 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »One thing I have been trying to reassure myself with is a post someone made on here about the phases of being on MFP. This time line would put me in phase 2 where you don't lose scale weight but see body changes for the whole second month of your journey.
Did you also find that true?
I personally didn't find that true at all. I think I posted this already in your other thread but this is from my first 6 months of weight loss. The overall trend was quite consistent.
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tinkerbellang83 wrote: »They are talking absolute hog-wash.
CICO is the only way weight management happens (not just weight loss), it is physics, plain and simple.
CI (Calories In) greater than CO (Calories Out) = Weight Gain
CI equal to CO = Weight Maintenance
CI less than CO = Weight Loss
Your calorie burn will decrease as you lose weight, so you do need to adjust MyFitnessPal as you go.
If you need any confirmation look to the Maintenance thread, there are people who have been maintaining their weight loss for years here. Also look to the non-bikini bodybuilders in your life that aren't overweight - how many of them eat 6 meals per day? I don't know any of my friends that are of healthy weight that are eating this way!
Plateaus are not really a thing, it is generally a misunderstanding of fluctuations, impatience or people eating more than they think. Which I think has already been clearly explained in another thread you made.
Weight loss doesn't happen like many people think it does, even if you log accurately, weight fluctuates up as well as down, because your body is not just made up of fat, it's mostly water, your mass is constantly in flux.
If you are logging accurately and sticking to your (sustainable) calorie goal consistently you will lose weight just fine here.
Except that the science doesn't support that. Countless studies have shown that it's far more complicated than that. The best evidence about weight loss is that insulin resistance has a causal relationship to weight gain. I've had a great deal of success in weight loss not by focusing on calories, but by managing my blood sugar levels and insulin levels.2 -
@yirara
I guess I will open up my diary. It it is really scary for me to do that. I want to do it right so I should want to open it up and be told what I am doing wrong. But then again I am trying really hard and I'm afraid judgement will stress me out and get me to give up .
Here goes nothing I guess7 -
pauldalen1 wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »They are talking absolute hog-wash.
CICO is the only way weight management happens (not just weight loss), it is physics, plain and simple.
CI (Calories In) greater than CO (Calories Out) = Weight Gain
CI equal to CO = Weight Maintenance
CI less than CO = Weight Loss
Your calorie burn will decrease as you lose weight, so you do need to adjust MyFitnessPal as you go.
If you need any confirmation look to the Maintenance thread, there are people who have been maintaining their weight loss for years here. Also look to the non-bikini bodybuilders in your life that aren't overweight - how many of them eat 6 meals per day? I don't know any of my friends that are of healthy weight that are eating this way!
Plateaus are not really a thing, it is generally a misunderstanding of fluctuations, impatience or people eating more than they think. Which I think has already been clearly explained in another thread you made.
Weight loss doesn't happen like many people think it does, even if you log accurately, weight fluctuates up as well as down, because your body is not just made up of fat, it's mostly water, your mass is constantly in flux.
If you are logging accurately and sticking to your (sustainable) calorie goal consistently you will lose weight just fine here.
Except that the science doesn't support that. Countless studies have shown that it's far more complicated than that. The best evidence about weight loss is that insulin resistance has a causal relationship to weight gain. I've had a great deal of success in weight loss not by focusing on calories, but by managing my blood sugar levels and insulin levels.
What does that have to do with the OP's family member claiming that the only way to lose weight long term is to eat 6 meals per day?
Not everyone who is overweight is insulin resistant, so how is that the best evidence for weight loss?
Science has clearly supported CICO through many studies also, there are things that make it more complicated but at it's core weight loss is simple, it's just not easy.
Why complicate it for OP when there is nothing to suggest she is insulin resistant??
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@nicolewalter16 - You have gotten some good advice from people here!
I'm just here to say Hi to a fellow Kentuckian. I live in Georgetown but I'm from NKY in the Burlington/Florence area 0 -
Hi, I actually live in Walton, KY. So I am really close to Florence. Idk why MFP thinks my zip code is Beaver Creek lol.1
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nicolewalter16 wrote: »@yirara
I guess I will open up my diary. It it is really scary for me to do that. I want to do it right so I should want to open it up and be told what I am doing wrong. But then again I am trying really hard and I'm afraid judgement will stress me out and get me to give up .
Here goes nothing I guess
I don't see much wrong with your logging to be honest, I am presuming those items with 1 servings are Recipes you've created yourself in MFP?
There's a couple of bits that could be a tad more accurate - measuring some things in cups rather than grams or mls, but they are fairly low calorie items so shouldn't have too much impact.
Really do just give it a couple more weeks and set those non-scale goals to keep your motivation going!5 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@yirara
I guess I will open up my diary. It it is really scary for me to do that. I want to do it right so I should want to open it up and be told what I am doing wrong. But then again I am trying really hard and I'm afraid judgement will stress me out and get me to give up .
Here goes nothing I guess
Things like "Stir-Fried Chicken and Vegetables, 1 serving(s)", "Pita Pizza base (bread sauce cheese only), 1 serving(s)" and "ONE PAN Balsamic Chicken and Veggies, 1 serving(s) ": are those your own recipes where you've weighed the individual ingredients, added them to a recipe and weighed the entire cooked dish and then your individual portion?
Aside from that, some elements don't seem to be weighed: eggs, apples, almonds... Your "one large egg" for 70 calories surprises me a bit: the entry I use for eggs ("Eggs, Whole, Raw" gives me a 49gram egg for 70 calories, which doesn't seem like a large egg to me.
Apples and blueberries will show smaller differences in calories if you're not weighing them (but they can add up), but almonds are calorie dense, so I would weigh those instead of counting them.
Your entry for oats has both volume and gram measurements - are you using a scale for that?4 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@yirara
Aside from that, some elements don't seem to be weighed: eggs, apples, almonds... Your "one large egg" for 70 calories surprises me a bit: the entry I use for eggs ("Eggs, Whole, Raw" gives me a 49gram egg for 70 calories, which doesn't seem like a large egg to me.
A whole large egg here (Ireland) would be about 72 cals per the nutrition info on the brand I buy. They aren't huge eggs (When I get the XL ones from the farmers market, I'd be logging 2 of my Aldi brand ones lol)0 -
Not sure she has given you good advice. Biggest problem with CICO is that people don't give it enough time, and they are overly reliant on the scale. The trick is to find that "sweet spot", where you are maintaining a deficit, but not overly restricting to lose weight. I don't have the tech to follow weight trends, but just looking over the graph on MFP--- what numbers do over a month's time is more important than a daily number. In maintenance, this is what my weight has done in a year. Each line is one pound.2
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When it comes to weight loss, a calorie is a calorie and they are all equal. When it comes to being healthy, she's right in that regard that they are not equal. Eating just snickers at a deficit will let you lose weight but eating a healthy diet at a deficit will help you lose weight AND get/stay healthy. For her to say this stuff as a bodybuilder, isn't that surprising. For her to say it as a nurse is a bit concerning. Not much different than the people that swear you can get 10k calories a day in keto and still lose weight as long as everything is keto friendly.5
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@tinkerbellang83 and @Lietchi thank you for the feedback on the weighing of items I will certainly make improvement on the types of things you pointed out.
I do make a lot of my own recipes but that is why I like to feel I have a little extra padding in my numbers. Cooking is one of my passions and that is something I'm going to have to balance for my weight loss to be sustainable4 -
I'll just apologize up-front because I didn't read past the first three replies so someone may have said this already:
The bodybuilding-bikini-model person with the advice given to nicolewalter16 is coming from a competitive angle. Anyone who is in that situation and has been at a competitive weight/body-fat percentage for any period of time is working on a very tiny margin of error. That means HER strategy is very fine-tuned and very specific to HER needs. She's telling her truth.
The strategy and tactic for someone who is simply trying to lose weight is waaaaaaay different.
I say stick to MFP for a month, adjust if needed. Try your best to get enough protein and fat and let carbs fall where they fall. Watch and limit your sweets and grains, make sure to get a lot of whole fruits and vegetables. That's the easiest way to stay within calories.
When you get to the bikini bodybuilder model level, then you can start listening to a professional bikini model.
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nicolewalter16 wrote: »I was just informed by a family member who was a bikini body builder and is now a nurse that my using my fitness pal would not work "in the long run" because not all calories are the same and being in a calorie deficit won't matter unless you eat 6 times a day to increase metabolism. And told me that increasing metabolism is basically the only way to lose weight of keep weight off.
This happened to happen during a hard day in my " suck period" I have been using my fitness pal for about a month and have got a plateau. I am trying to be patient but this hit very hard for me.
Anyone know if she is right, if not why (got any good insights or sources, I like to be reassured with facts)
A calorie is a unit of energy. Depending on your stats and activity level and exercise, your body requires XXXX units of that energy to maintain the status quo. When you consume more energy (calories) than your body requires over time, that excess energy is stored as body fat...it is energy stored for later use...basically your backup generator.
When you consume fewer calories than your body requires, that deficiency has to be made up for...so your backup generator kicks on and you burn stored energy (body fat) to reconcile your body's needs vs. what energy is being consumed.
She's basically spouting a bunch of gym bro-science. You don't increase your metabolism by eating 6 times per day...the only way to increase your metabolism is more activity and exercise and building muscle mass. Some foods have a higher thermal effect...ie they burn more calories being digested than others...but in the context of one's overall diet and provided one's overall diet is for the most part coming from nutritious foods, this is pretty negligible.
I also know some competitive bodybuilders and bikini competitors...keep in mind, that what these people are trying to achieve is very advanced body compositions and go to great lengths to be unnaturally lean for competition. Being stage ready isn't the same things as just being healthy, fit, and at a healthy weight and BF%.6 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »I was just informed by a family member who was a bikini body builder and is now a nurse that my using my fitness pal would not work "in the long run" because not all calories are the same and being in a calorie deficit won't matter unless you eat 6 times a day to increase metabolism. And told me that increasing metabolism is basically the only way to lose weight of keep weight off.
This happened to happen during a hard day in my " suck period" I have been using my fitness pal for about a month and have got a plateau. I am trying to be patient but this hit very hard for me.
Anyone know if she is right, if not why (got any good insights or sources, I like to be reassured with facts)
@nicolewalter16 Yes, it works! I have lost 55lb so far and need to lose another 30lb just from counting calories. Just log everything you put in your mouth and stay below your calories goal each day and you will lose weight.3 -
It definitely works. Accuracy, time and patience are the most important components but doing it will lead to results. Body weight does rise and fall, not necessarily due to intake/expenditure. It can be frustrating in the short term, but finding the right caloric intake for you will definitely work. Science is science...it really is as simple as taking in less than you put out.
I much prefer counting calories because it places no limits on what you eat, as long as you can fit it in your budget.
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nicolewalter16 wrote: »I do make a lot of my own recipes but that is why I like to feel I have a little extra padding in my numbers. Cooking is one of my passions and that is something I'm going to have to balance for my weight loss to be sustainable
Why is cooking something you need to balance for weight loss?
And why does it require 'extra padding' in your numbers?
If you weigh your ingredients (and know their caloric value) it's just as reliable as weighing and consuming packaged foods.8 -
@Lietchi I have found I can't be 100 % accurate with some recipes because I can weigh all the ingridents that go in and what goes on my plate but it won't be absolute. For example I like making Stir-Fried veggies I cna measure all the different veggies but when I portion out the 6 servings or what have you I can't gurantee each plate has the exact amount of each veggie. So it is more of an average.1
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nicolewalter16 wrote: »@Lietchi I have found I can't be 100 % accurate with some recipes because I can weigh all the ingridents that go in and what goes on my plate but it won't be absolute. For example I like making Stir-Fried veggies I cna measure all the different veggies but when I portion out the 6 servings or what have you I can't gurantee each plate has the exact amount of each veggie. So it is more of an average.
Measure the entire recipe in grams when complete. Put the weight in grams as your number of servings. Each time you take some, just weigh what you take. IE 200 grams would be 200 servings. Voila.
Or, if you’re cooking just for you, it doesn’t matter much if each serving is exact because once you eat all of it, it will all have been accounted for in your diary. (More true if you’re eating it in the same week or so).6 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »@Lietchi I have found I can't be 100 % accurate with some recipes because I can weigh all the ingridents that go in and what goes on my plate but it won't be absolute. For example I like making Stir-Fried veggies I cna measure all the different veggies but when I portion out the 6 servings or what have you I can't gurantee each plate has the exact amount of each veggie. So it is more of an average.
Measure the entire recipe in grams when complete. Put the weight in grams as your number of servings. Each time you take some, just weigh what you take. IE 200 grams would be 200 servings. Voila.
Or, if you’re cooking just for you, it doesn’t matter much if each serving is exact because once you eat all of it, it will all have been accounted for in your diary. (More true if you’re eating it in the same week or so).
exactly. just make sure you measure each ingredient in the same unit (all grams, for example). If you look at my diary you see my lunch was 130 servings of chicken salad. it was 130 grams.
I'm making an apple pie later and you'll see that at the end of the day 150 servings of pie. (or whatever I dish up)
Learn how to use that recipe builder to maximize the accuracy! It helps tremendously.4 -
nicolewalter16 wrote: »How do I adjust MFP?
Also thank you for suggesting Libra, I really like it!
Nicole, please keep in mind that what Libra is doing is giving you a statistical estimate. It doesn't have secret insights, it just uses averages of the past to make its best guess at the future. At times, it can mislead.
For example, most of us will gain water weight when we have a cold (from inflammation as our body fights it off, and from the actual phlegm and such). Let's say we make some nice chicken soup, low calorie and nutritious, but decide to let it be high in salt because that helps break up the congestion and feels nice on the raw throat.
Next day, scale may be up (eek! 😉) several pounds, from extra water weight - not a bit of it is fat, as long as at or below weight loss calorie goal. Libra doesn't know those details. As the water weight takes a few days to dissipate (as it will), Libra may decide that weight loss has stopped or even that gain has started, because all it knows is the numbers.
Yes, it will be a more accurate guide, but any water weight increase that persists for multiple days can mislead it temporarily. (This happened to me when I had surgery: Extra water weight from IVs, and the inflammation of healing.)
Be aware of this, and don't let it freak you out if it happens. It's not a crystal ball that "somehow knows" what's really happening. It's just doing some arithmetic with numbers from the recent past. If the recent past has been unusual, the arithmetic results may be misleading.
Libra (and similar apps) are a help, but need to be kept in context.nicolewalter16 wrote: »@skatells thank you, I really need to feel like I wasn't the only one. I really am trying my hardest and eating much healthier. I have been preparing all fresh means no packaged ingridents, measuring everything, and making s point yo do some exercise most days of the week.
I was just staring to feel like I was being successful then the scale stopped going down. I called that a plateau, I guess I was wrong.
I was starting to tell myself to focus on the fact my pants are more loose and wondering if others saw physical changes in me or if I was imagining it. Then my confidence was shattered today and I was told I would not succeed. It really hurt.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you! People say some unhelpful and even unhurtful things along the way. Like others, I didn't talk about my weight loss practices, unless someone asked, and then I'd do my best to keep it short and polite. Your family member may have meant to help, but it wasn't helpful.
If you're enjoying your new way of eating, and enjoying the process of preparing it, that's wonderful. I just want to make sure you realize, though, that there's nothing inherently wrong with packaged ingredients, or even prepared food.
Yes, it's important to pay attention to the labels to keep meeting your calorie and nutrition goals, but that's it. It's OK to turn to packaged foods if life gets hectic now and then. Since it takes a long time (weeks to months) to lose any meaningful amount of weight, it's useful to understand which parts of the process are central (calories, good nutrition), and which are nice to have (freshly prepared foods).
If the packaged foods have higher sodium than your usual, you might see a water-weight jump on the scale, but it's no big deal: Not fat, will drop off. You may also find that some packaged foods are less filling than freshly-prepared from scratch. That may make it harder to stick with calorie goal - which *is* important - but as long as you *do* stick to your calorie goal, it won't ruin anything.
Yes, your pants being more loose is a great sign of progress: Yay! It may take a while for others to notice changes (it's not their waistband gradually getting comfier! 😉) and even longer for them to mention it (some people think it's rude to comment on others' weight).
You're doing great - wishing you continued success!5
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