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Vegan Milk

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Replies

  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,157 Member
    Just a follow up to that Wired article on lab grown meat -- that company went out of business. I was a bit surprised, but not too much so. Turns out that the entire team is now working on a new venture -- what they learned from trying to grow meat was revolutionary in terms of identifying and selecting individual cells for desirable characteristics. Now they are working at growing micronutrients from plant based sources -- identifying what makes certain foods so healthy for you, then isolating those cells and growing them. There's a huge demand in drug therapies (and in nutraceuticals) for that technology. The new company was founded by the CTO of the lab meat company and (I guess) a fairly well known Vegan podcaster.

    Found this article interesting as well. Talking about how prevalent fermentation is becoming in plant based meat alternatives.

    https://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-food/6-recent-developments-in-the-alternative-protein-industry/
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,869 Member
    edited October 2020
    Perfect Day, a startup that I've been following out of curiosity more than anything else (and I know a few of the engineers involved), now has Vegan products, including Ice Cream, out in stores.

    Basically, this company, through fermentation methods that have existed for years, has grown milk proteins in a lab that are lactose free and animal cruelty free (they just needed some dairy DNA to start). So no veal, no cruelty of dairy farms, but this is supposed to taste identical to real dairy.

    They are out in stores already as "Brave Robot" ice cream. Just wondering if vegans on here would get on board with that or still stick with plant based foods. My wife can't do cow dairy, even if it's lactose free, so I'll likely stick to the non-dairy versions.

    Have no idea how expensive it is yet.

    Well if it has real cow milk DNA it isnt vegan though. I'm not vegan. But. That would not fall into a vegan category. Some cow at some point was milked for that DNA.

    I still wouldn't switch... but because casein and I dont agree.

    Edit: after reading some of these comments I feel very uneducated... soooo ignore me.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,157 Member
    VeryKatie wrote: »
    Perfect Day, a startup that I've been following out of curiosity more than anything else (and I know a few of the engineers involved), now has Vegan products, including Ice Cream, out in stores.

    Basically, this company, through fermentation methods that have existed for years, has grown milk proteins in a lab that are lactose free and animal cruelty free (they just needed some dairy DNA to start). So no veal, no cruelty of dairy farms, but this is supposed to taste identical to real dairy.

    They are out in stores already as "Brave Robot" ice cream. Just wondering if vegans on here would get on board with that or still stick with plant based foods. My wife can't do cow dairy, even if it's lactose free, so I'll likely stick to the non-dairy versions.

    Have no idea how expensive it is yet.

    Well if it has real cow milk DNA it isnt vegan though. I'm not vegan. But. That would not fall into a vegan category. Some cow at some point was milked for that DNA.

    I still wouldn't switch... but because casein and I dont agree.

    Edit: after reading some of these comments I feel very uneducated... soooo ignore me.

    LOL, you're not. And I knew nothing about being Vegan until my daughter became vegetarian. It's a very contentious and controversial topic for many!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    VeryKatie wrote: »
    Perfect Day, a startup that I've been following out of curiosity more than anything else (and I know a few of the engineers involved), now has Vegan products, including Ice Cream, out in stores.

    Basically, this company, through fermentation methods that have existed for years, has grown milk proteins in a lab that are lactose free and animal cruelty free (they just needed some dairy DNA to start). So no veal, no cruelty of dairy farms, but this is supposed to taste identical to real dairy.

    They are out in stores already as "Brave Robot" ice cream. Just wondering if vegans on here would get on board with that or still stick with plant based foods. My wife can't do cow dairy, even if it's lactose free, so I'll likely stick to the non-dairy versions.

    Have no idea how expensive it is yet.

    Well if it has real cow milk DNA it isnt vegan though. I'm not vegan. But. That would not fall into a vegan category. Some cow at some point was milked for that DNA.

    I still wouldn't switch... but because casein and I dont agree.

    Edit: after reading some of these comments I feel very uneducated... soooo ignore me.

    I think it's more accurate to say that many vegans would consider it not vegan, but there are possible approaches to vegan ethics that COULD consider it vegan.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,292 Member
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.

    Food labeling is going to have to catch up to this. Similarly to how vegans have mistakenly purchased things like "non-dairy creamer" and then figured out it had animal products, there are going to be people buying vegan "dairy" thinking that it isn't allegenic. The difference is that with the latter situation, there are actual health consequences involved. Companies are going to have to figure out a way to make that clear.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,157 Member
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.

    Food labeling is going to have to catch up to this. Similarly to how vegans have mistakenly purchased things like "non-dairy creamer" and then figured out it had animal products, there are going to be people buying vegan "dairy" thinking that it isn't allegenic. The difference is that with the latter situation, there are actual health consequences involved. Companies are going to have to figure out a way to make that clear.

    Yeah, doesn't surprise me that a small family company from Cincinnati wouldn't know that. I grew up in Cincinnati. Graeter's is as famous there as Cincinnati Chili. Ridiculously good ice cream. When my wife came down with cow dairy allergies, we missed it terribly. But with her allergies, this would not be a safer alternative for us. It's still cow dairy, just lactose free. But, I'm sure it's delicious.
  • gigmaster
    gigmaster Posts: 20 Member
    If they are using any dairy products, then it is not vegan. 'Milk' proteins are made up of all 9 amino acids, making it a complete protein. However, this is not exclusive to dairy. Soybeans also have a complete protein that is actually higher quality, and soy milk is delicious as well as very low in fat. Other alternatives to milk are nuts, like almond, cashew and oat milk. Rice milk is also great, but lower in protein than the other choices. This can be easily fixed though. Eat a little tofu with it.

    Seems to me like they are trying to reinvent the wheel when there are already plenty of good substitutes for dairy products available.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    gigmaster wrote: »
    If they are using any dairy products, then it is not vegan. 'Milk' proteins are made up of all 9 amino acids, making it a complete protein. However, this is not exclusive to dairy. Soybeans also have a complete protein that is actually higher quality, and soy milk is delicious as well as very low in fat. Other alternatives to milk are nuts, like almond, cashew and oat milk. Rice milk is also great, but lower in protein than the other choices. This can be easily fixed though. Eat a little tofu with it.

    Seems to me like they are trying to reinvent the wheel when there are already plenty of good substitutes for dairy products available.

    "Vegan" is defined by animal exploitation involved. If "dairy" existed without animal exploitation, then it would be vegan.

    The point is that there are plenty of good substitutions available for those who are motivated by political, ethical, health, or environmental reasons to avoid dairy, but the substitutions are less acceptable to those who are less motivated due to the gulf between their taste/mouthfeel/performance in recipes compared to the plant-based alternatives. So I don't think you can state that we can just stop with the development of substitutions because we've done all that we need to do. If there is further development that can convince MORE people to use substitutes, that's a worthwhile project (from an ethical POV).
  • durhammfp
    durhammfp Posts: 496 Member
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.

    Food labeling is going to have to catch up to this. Similarly to how vegans have mistakenly purchased things like "non-dairy creamer" and then figured out it had animal products, there are going to be people buying vegan "dairy" thinking that it isn't allegenic. The difference is that with the latter situation, there are actual health consequences involved. Companies are going to have to figure out a way to make that clear.
    When my wife came down with cow dairy allergies, we missed it terribly. But with her allergies, this would not be a safer alternative for us. It's still cow dairy, just lactose free. But, I'm sure it's delicious.

    Same here. The only reason our house is dairy-free is because of a casein allergy. :-(
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,157 Member
    durhammfp wrote: »
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.

    Food labeling is going to have to catch up to this. Similarly to how vegans have mistakenly purchased things like "non-dairy creamer" and then figured out it had animal products, there are going to be people buying vegan "dairy" thinking that it isn't allegenic. The difference is that with the latter situation, there are actual health consequences involved. Companies are going to have to figure out a way to make that clear.
    When my wife came down with cow dairy allergies, we missed it terribly. But with her allergies, this would not be a safer alternative for us. It's still cow dairy, just lactose free. But, I'm sure it's delicious.

    Same here. The only reason our house is dairy-free is because of a casein allergy. :-(

    Luckily, there are better and better substitutions out every day. I can do cow dairy but my wife can't, so I don't. We do very rare sheep/goat cheese. That's it. What I learned is Americans eat way too much dairy. And I feel better without all of it.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,260 Member
    Sheep and goat cheese should be type 2 casein where as bovine it type 1, thought there are some herds which are certificated type 2 casein because the original stock lived in isolation from other cattle. There are 4 types of casein and most are reactive to type 1, 2 is more like human milk and 3 and 4 are generally present at much lower numbers in both milks but are from what I have read, are much less reactive. Hope this helps someone.
  • Fit_Happens_2021
    Fit_Happens_2021 Posts: 303 Member
    edited January 2021
    Absolutely I would try it. If they make it in a form that tastes ok in my hot tea I would switch to it. I am pretty sure I am lactose intolerant (haven't had an official diagnosis, but looking at my stomach issues and food log it became pretty apparent) so if it is cruelty-free, and lactose-free I am in!
  • durhammfp
    durhammfp Posts: 496 Member
    edited January 2021
    durhammfp wrote: »
    Looks like the well known ice cream company Graeter's is also coming out with a line using this.

    rkdqchak8h0e.png



    Perfect Day uses fermentation to create microflora-made dairy protein that delivers the same taste and texture of dairy without the environmental, animal welfare, or food safety concerns, according to the company. The result is lactose-free whey and casein dairy proteins made without cows.

    The Perfect Indulgence line will launch in six traditional Graeter’s flavors: Black Cherry Chocolate Chip, Cookies & Cream, Oregon Strawberry, Mint Chocolate Chip, Chocolate and Chocolate Chip. The company plans to release additional flavors in the future, including Madagascar Vanilla Bean.


    Those with allergies to whey and milk protein still can't have though. I know a lot of people who eat vegan because it is an easy way to avoid whey and milk protein because they are allergic. This trend might make it harder for those who are allergic to find completely milk/dairy free options if more companies trend this way.

    Food labeling is going to have to catch up to this. Similarly to how vegans have mistakenly purchased things like "non-dairy creamer" and then figured out it had animal products, there are going to be people buying vegan "dairy" thinking that it isn't allegenic. The difference is that with the latter situation, there are actual health consequences involved. Companies are going to have to figure out a way to make that clear.
    When my wife came down with cow dairy allergies, we missed it terribly. But with her allergies, this would not be a safer alternative for us. It's still cow dairy, just lactose free. But, I'm sure it's delicious.

    Same here. The only reason our house is dairy-free is because of a casein allergy. :-(

    Luckily, there are better and better substitutions out every day. I can do cow dairy but my wife can't, so I don't. We do very rare sheep/goat cheese. That's it. What I learned is Americans eat way too much dairy. And I feel better without all of it.

    I should have said "milk free" since we do keep our own stashes of yogurt and mine is of the bovine variety. All other dairy has been taken out of the house.

    I have noticed, though, that when we go out to eat with our vegan friends (or did in the before times) say at a pizza place, I will get my pizza with real cheese b/c it is such a treat, but later I will regret it. The problem is not just the cheese but the huge amounts of it that are used. Of course I could remove some of it but that seems silly in the moment. I always end up wishing I had gotten a pizza with violife cheese substitute... which is just as tasty (IMO) and does not make me feel all glugged up at the end of the evening.