Weightlifting struggles

How long have you been training?

I always found it hard to lift weights when on a calorie deficit. For some reason, I'm better with cardio, which actually makes my hunger go away for a while.

Generally, lifting weights is good for gaining muscle, which is easiest if you are eating at or above maintenance. Cardio is good for losing weight.

Finally, if you allocate too many of your calories to protein, you'll rob from carbs and fats, which are better fuel. I've done my best cuts with no more than about 20% of my calories from protein and while getting lots of cardio, including swimming, which maintains upper body strength very well.

Do you use RPE?
Are you training to failure on each set?
Do you have deloads built into your programme?
If you’re training to failure all the time it may be why ur feeling so beat up.
Take a look at some of Eric Helms and teams work. Or the barbell medicine website.
You may need some adjustments to your training

Leonie_M234 wrote: »

@cupcakesandproteinshakes

Thankyou for the reply, god knows what I would do without this forum! been feeling really down about lack of energy. Went on a 13 mile bike ride yesterday which I never do more than weekly or fortnightly currently and it killed me. Bear in mind had slept fine, eaten a big breakfast and even had a protein bar half way.
I am going to look into this, no deloads no and I dont use RPE. Because the weight is heavy for me I prob am training to failure without realising. I know I should stop before 1 or 2 reps are still possible and I'm not always doing that. I am so worried all the time about not working hard enough.
Was also thinking about doing a 3 day full body split to give more rest time instead of 4 day ( 2 lower and 2 upperbody)

Couple of things:

Your bike rides are likely impairing recovery. 13 miles is quite a lot. Tack down a few miles and see what happens.
For your height/weight, that's a low calories count, even for deficit. @AnnPT77 is right to go for a smaller deficit.
Your protein at 100g is pretty low. Protein is essential to build muscle. Shoot for 1g/lb BW or lean body mass. I'd try 168g and see how you feel. Lower fats and THEN carbs. Your body will preference carbs as a fuel source.
RP folks suggest anything between 0-4 reps in the tank per set can induce hypertrophy. Deload and shoot for 4 on your next meso and go up from there.

All these are just suggestions from a quick read. Cheers.

Leonie_M234 wrote: »

@alexmose2 I agree with you on the protein and thank you for your reply : ) I struggle to get up to 100g as I used to be vegan and prob didn't even hit 40g some days, I use protein powder in oats and a shake and that's helped.
I am interested that you think the deficit is too low for my height and weight, I have to say I thought it was ok according to my own data and tdee calculators. A smaller 250 cal deficit will be slow but energy levels might be better. The best I felt was before Christmas I went of track a bit and was eating between 2500-3000 cals a day!! but I gained about 3lbs so thats not going to work in the long run I am pained to admit.

A few thoughts, if I may. Some are about the deficit, some about the protein (coming from my perspective as a 5'5" vegetarian with a 100g protein goal, and a dislike of protein powders/bars and faux meats - just a taste preference thing, not dissing them in any other way).

First, a slow loss rate (small deficit) really, really can work, if you have a (1) good understanding of your calorie needs (which develops via logging experience & the scale response to it), and (2) good, consistent logging habits. The #1 item can theoretically be developed while running the small deficit, but it will take quite a while in that context. Which leads me to my second point . . .

IMO, a really important thing to understand is that a small deficit can be very, very misleading on the bodyweight scale, sometimes for surprisingly long period of time. Think about it: If random water weight fluctuations vary one's weight by (say) 1-2 pounds from day to day, and the fat loss is half a pound a week (250 calories daily), how long will it take for a clear fat loss trend to emerge from the noise of the fluctuations: Yup, a month, maybe two. This can be a challenge, for someone who's maybe over-responsive (stress or whatever) to routine scale fluctuations. (I'm not saying this is you, but mentioning the whole subject in "forewarned is forearmed" mode.)

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I've been running a 100-150 calorie average deficit daily for around the past year, and finding it very painless. I'm not saying you should go that slowly, but I'm going to use my own data as a case-study example of the above comments. This is my Libra (weight trending app) graph for a few months during that process. The vertical lines connect daily weights to the bumpy, solid, horizontal-ish trend line. (You'll see some high days in there around the November/December holidays 🤣. My daily deficit is set around 250 calories, but I have some indulgent days now and then that move the average to that 100-150 long term daily average.)



For example, look at July. Looks like gain or maintain, right? It wasn't. I restarted routine strength training after a long-ish hiatus, and I always add a couple of pounds of water weight when I do that, and hang onto it until I stop. In August, you can finally see the trend drop that represents the super slow fat loss finally emerging from behind the fog of water weight. Still, over the long haul, the weight changes from fat loss have added up. Since October 2019 (not shown), I'm down from mid/high-130s pounds to reliably mid-120s now. (The plateau-ish zone on the chart was admittedly eating behavior, not misleading.) I've noticed zero problems with athletic progress (though I admit for me it's mostly measured in rowing speed rather than lifts.) So, it can work, and it's pretty painless, except for that scale-motivation aspect of it.

Enough of that! About protein:

When I was trying to lose, I found diary review really helpful as a tool for increasing protein, as a vegetarian, on lower calories. Every few days at first, I was reviewing my diary, looking for foods that "cost" more calories than they were worth to me in tastiness, satiation, or nutrition, and reducing or eliminating them in favor of other foods I like that were better contributor to my goals. I don't know if you're omnivore now, but this would potentially be even easier than if you were veg. It's great to get the "one big protein per meal", of course, but it can be helpful to sneak in little bits of protein here and there from the meals' bit players, and from snacks: They can add up through the day. Some of them are less complete in essential amino acids (EAA), but getting a variety will tend to compensate somewhat for that.

As a former vegan, you probably realize that there are grains, veggies, breads, etc. with more protein than others, and even some fruits with protein. There's nothing wrong with protein powders or bars as a supplement, IMO, though I personally find food sources more tasty/satisfying. In finding food choices to try, this thread was really helpful to me (as a veg, I had to scroll past the mostly meaty/fishy things near the top of the linked spreadsheet, but the plant sources are in there further down the calorie-efficiency order for protein sources):

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

Best wishes for progress!

Leonie_M234 wrote: »

@AnnPT77 Thanks again Ann! really interesting to read about your journey and see the flucuations in that chart. I do eat meat now which makes things alot easier, the info you posted will be helpful. I struggle to go beyond 100g within my calories, so need to really look into this. I am lucky I have 2 years worth of data so my TDEE is bang on what I think it is, as is my calculation of exersise calories.
What I am realising about lifting too is that it increases my appetite, and eating in a defecit is just not easy unless it's a small one as you say.
I wish I had a better before pic but I've lost 2.5 stone ( gained back almost 7lbs since summer) and I lost a ton of fat around my middle. As you can see there is no muscle definition yet apart from some on my arms and upper back in the proper lighting. however my clothes are not tighter having gained that weight back. I remember asking previously about body recomp eating at maintenance. I guess that could happen on a tiny defecit still?

Wonderful results so far - you look great!

There's at least a decent chance of recomp at a slight deficit, IMO. Realistically, we're talking probabilities, and genetic potential is part of that, along with age, quality of program, faithfulness of performing the program, adequate nutrition (especially but not exclusively protein), calorie intake, and maybe more. I think the more you optimize the ones of those you can control, the better your odds of progress. Reasonable to expect it to be kinda gradual at best, but the better you can make the conditions, it'll be a plus. Other people can give you better advice than I about recomp, though. I'm a lackadaisical lifter, at best. 🤷‍♀️

Leonie_M234 wrote: »

@AnnPT77 Thankyou! I looked at the recomp thread a while ago and it's really interesting. There seems to be alot of conflicting ideas on whether to start at the right BMI or when you are still overweight. But anyway just want that muscle definition so bad if truth be told!! will just keep on trying and experimenting : )

FWIW, if the photo on the left is how you look now, I don't think you look significantly overweight, though I'm no expert (and a lot of it is personal preference anyway). Visible muscle definition is going to be reaching the right combination of good muscle development, and fat loss to let it show, the combination that gives you the look you personally prefer.

You can add muscle mass (in theory) at pretty much any body fat level, it just won't show up much until you reach a certain leanness. I accidentally recomped a bit while obese (in that I lost a couple of sizes, but stayed around the same weight), but I still just looked fat. When I finally lost weight, I was surprised to see that I had a bit of li'l ol' lady muscles underneath the fat layer.

Keep in mind that you don't have to pick a course now, and stick with it forever. Depending on how you feel at this point, you could focus more on muscle gain, more on (slow) fat loss, or try to get a balance. In a six months or a year or whatever (give it some time!), if you feel good about the progress, keep going. If not, you can re-evaluate and change course.