‘Refeeding’ and rest

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ArtemisCarly
ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Hi all,

I’ve been doing great with my calories and exercise and have seen results. I’m about 4 weeks in and noticing some fatiguing when it comes to my running, and that I am feeling more hungry. I tend to eat 50-75% of my exercise calories.

I’ve heard of ‘refeeding’ from the strength training world. Is there any logic in giving my body a few days of more calories to combat this, or will it just set me back? Do I just need to ride out the storm?!

I don’t have much to lose so I don’t have a lot of margin... i obviously wouldn’t go mad and eat 3 burgers and a whole cheesecake! Maybe I’m just looking for excuses...

Replies

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    How quickly are you losing? Eating back only half of your running calories is potentially creating too big of a deficit. It's hard to maintain a steep deficit and train well.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    edited February 2021
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    ArtemisCarly wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I’ve been doing great with my calories and exercise and have seen results. I’m about 4 weeks in and noticing some fatiguing when it comes to my running, and that I am feeling more hungry. I tend to eat 50-75% of my exercise calories.

    I’ve heard of ‘refeeding’ from the strength training world. Is there any logic in giving my body a few days of more calories to combat this, or will it just set me back? Do I just need to ride out the storm?!

    I don’t have much to lose so I don’t have a lot of margin... i obviously wouldn’t go mad and eat 3 burgers and a whole cheesecake! Maybe I’m just looking for excuses...

    What's your running volume like? How many miles per week? Are you taking recovery days? How long have you been running and what is your fitness level?

    Could be lots of things...not properly accounting for your running calories...50% is pretty arbitrary, and depending on the distance could be a huge difference from actual or a relatively small difference. Have you cut way back on carbs? Are you timing meals or snacks around your exercise?
  • ArtemisCarly
    ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
    edited February 2021
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    Hi, I’ve been running for years and years so I’m experienced and I run about 20 miles a week over 3/4 days. I walk 3-4 miles a day with my dog. I’m on 1550kcal a day as set by MFP (before exercise cals)

    I’ve not cut carbs - I love carbs!

    I’ve been losing 0.5-1lb per week pretty steadily. More in the first week.
  • ArtemisCarly
    ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
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    Lietchi wrote: »
    Your calorie burn for running is based on what? If it's pretty accurate, you could be creating a deficit that is a bit steep for someone with little to lose and running, by not eating them all back.
    I always eat back all my exercise calories, since my tracker is pretty accurate.

    Refeeds are a thing yes, especially for people who don't have much to lose. There's a good thread about it on the stickies.

    Other option: perhaps your fatigue is due to your macros distribution? Not enough carbs perhaps?

    Calorie burn is calculated by my Garmin, not by MFP

  • LisaGetsMoving
    LisaGetsMoving Posts: 664 Member
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    ArtemisCarly wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I’ve been doing great with my calories and exercise and have seen results. I’m about 4 weeks in and noticing some fatiguing when it comes to my running, and that I am feeling more hungry. I tend to eat 50-75% of my exercise calories...

    I am no expert and can't even run down my driveway, so take this with a grain of salt. Perhaps you need to up your calories, since you're now more hungry and more fatigued. You're close to goal, so you should be closer to maintenance+exercise calorie levels. Have you been sick recently or fighting some kind of infection, and have you been sleeping properly? Those will affect energy levels for sure. Also, it's the middle of winter and some people are very sensitive to vit.D deficiency/lack of sunlight, depending on where you live, you might need a supplement.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
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    ArtemisCarly wrote: »
    Hi, I’ve been running for years and years so I’m experienced and I run about 20 miles a week over 3/4 days. I walk 3-4 miles a day with my dog. I’m on 1550kcal a day as set by MFP (before exercise cals)

    I’ve not cut carbs - I love carbs!

    I’ve been losing 0.5-1lb per week pretty steadily. More in the first week.

    I'd pretty much chalk this up to even a reasonable calorie deficit is going to impact performance then. If you're losing between .5-1Lb per week, your calories are pretty on point. I'm not a runner, but I am an avid cycling enthusiast and when I was doing a lot of endurance cycling and endurance events, my performance definitely suffered, even in a slight deficit.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    If you are confident your running calorie estimates are reasonable then cutting them to 50 - 75% is just making a reasonable estimate worse. That's really not the idea of calorie counting!
    If you think ahead to maintenance at goal weight you will have to eat them back so it's a good skill to adopt ahead of time.

    But do realise that a calorie deficit and a heavy exercise routine are not good bed-fellows.
    In a hard training block before a cycling event I can only tolerate 1lb/week loss for a matter of weeks before my training and recovery start to suffer. I also get clear signs of over-training, fatigue and hunger can be part of that as can an elevated resting HR.
    A taper week where I ease up on the training intensity and eat at maintenance puts things to rights.

    An option is to periodise both the intensity of your training and your dieting, 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off for example and obviously the higher volume/higher intensity would sit best in the maintenance periods.
  • ArtemisCarly
    ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
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    sijomial wrote: »
    If you are confident your running calorie estimates are reasonable then cutting them to 50 - 75% is just making a reasonable estimate worse. That's really not the idea of calorie counting!
    If you think ahead to maintenance at goal weight you will have to eat them back so it's a good skill to adopt ahead of time.

    But do realise that a calorie deficit and a heavy exercise routine are not good bed-fellows.
    In a hard training block before a cycling event I can only tolerate 1lb/week loss for a matter of weeks before my training and recovery start to suffer. I also get clear signs of over-training, fatigue and hunger can be part of that as can an elevated resting HR.
    A taper week where I ease up on the training intensity and eat at maintenance puts things to rights.

    An option is to periodise both the intensity of your training and your dieting, 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off for example and obviously the higher volume/higher intensity would sit best in the maintenance periods.

    This is great advice, thank you.
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,114 Member
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    ArtemisCarly wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    Your calorie burn for running is based on what? If it's pretty accurate, you could be creating a deficit that is a bit steep for someone with little to lose and running, by not eating them all back.
    I always eat back all my exercise calories, since my tracker is pretty accurate.

    Refeeds are a thing yes, especially for people who don't have much to lose. There's a good thread about it on the stickies.

    Other option: perhaps your fatigue is due to your macros distribution? Not enough carbs perhaps?

    Calorie burn is calculated by my Garmin, not by MFP

    My Garmin is pretty accurate for my running sessions. You can compare with this formula to estimate calories for running:
    weight (lbs) x distance (miles) x 0.63

    Compare that to your Garmin's calorie burn, but first subtract your BMR, since Garmin includes that in the calorie burn for exercise (but it doesn't count for your calorie adjustment). So for example, if your BMR is 1600 and you ran for an hour, subtract 67 calories.

    If those two numbers are similar, I would eat back a higher percentage of the exercise calories.
  • ArtemisCarly
    ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
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    Thanks all. It looks like my Garmin is pretty accurate at assessing calorie burn, and I’m not logging any calorie burn for the 3-4 miles of walking I do a day, so I am probably in more deficit than I realise.

    I will have a light training week and eat at maintenance for a few days 👍🏻
  • gigius72
    gigius72 Posts: 183 Member
    edited February 2021
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    ArtemisCarly wrote: »
    Thanks all. It looks like my Garmin is pretty accurate at assessing calorie burn, and I’m not logging any calorie burn for the 3-4 miles of walking I do a day, so I am probably in more deficit than I realise.

    I will have a light training week and eat at maintenance for a few days 👍🏻

    I went through the same thing years ago when I went plant based. I used to be dragging on the track while running. In addition I used to feel dizzy often.
    It turned out I was not getting enough calories. I had substituted higher caloric foods with higher bulk foods.
    In my opinion like others said it's a matter of calorie intake vs calories you actually need.
  • ArtemisCarly
    ArtemisCarly Posts: 6 Member
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    So I had two consecutive days without running, ate 2200kcal yesterday with plenty of carbs and smashed out a long run feeling fresh as a daisy today. There’s the evidence if ever it was needed...

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