From avid carnivore to vegan (or somewhere in between)?
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CeeBeeSlim
Posts: 1,255 Member
Anyone has made this transition and so happy with it you don’t know how you ate like you did before? You just feel and are healthier?
I’m contemplating eating much more healthily - ie less meat. BUT I love meat - bacon, sausage, steak, pork - all meats - even processed deli meats. There are no medical indicators that indicate I need to change anything - I just intellectually know that this can’t be good, can it? Every meal is practically meat.
I don’t know if I can ever not have a burger, a pastrami sandwich, or ribeye steak - but I’m willing to try. My family (I’m 56, 118 lbs from 145 last year) has a history of heart disease and diabetes and high cholesterol but I’ve escaped this - so far.
I’m sure this isn’t the experience with everyone, but it’s become somewhat of a game - I’m
sitting with family watching tv, someone comes up who looks much younger than they are, we’ll google the person - and there you see - vegan or a no meat eater.
I guess I don’t need to do a complete 180, but anyone made changes over a period of time and found it to be worthwhile? Suggestions?
I’m contemplating eating much more healthily - ie less meat. BUT I love meat - bacon, sausage, steak, pork - all meats - even processed deli meats. There are no medical indicators that indicate I need to change anything - I just intellectually know that this can’t be good, can it? Every meal is practically meat.
I don’t know if I can ever not have a burger, a pastrami sandwich, or ribeye steak - but I’m willing to try. My family (I’m 56, 118 lbs from 145 last year) has a history of heart disease and diabetes and high cholesterol but I’ve escaped this - so far.
I’m sure this isn’t the experience with everyone, but it’s become somewhat of a game - I’m
sitting with family watching tv, someone comes up who looks much younger than they are, we’ll google the person - and there you see - vegan or a no meat eater.
I guess I don’t need to do a complete 180, but anyone made changes over a period of time and found it to be worthwhile? Suggestions?
2
Replies
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I am a meat lover who quit meat overnight, but it wasn't for health reasons. It's been about thirteen years and I'm very happy. That said . . .
I'd never ENCOURAGE anyone to eat meat, but why do you need to completely do a 180? If you want to eat less meat and more vegetables, why not try that? The goal doesn't have to be "never eat meat again," it can be something like "Try a new meatless entree every week and build a new collection of favorite recipes" or "try a vegetable I've never tried before" or "regularly make half my dinner plate vegetables" or "regularly get at least 25 grams of fiber per day from fruits, vegetables, and legumes" or whatever success would look like for you.
Maybe you'll love the new stuff you try and you'll decide eventually you don't want to eat meat any more. Or maybe you'll always love meat, but you'll have a new collection of stuff you like too.
There's a whole world of possibilities between "all meat, all day" and "never eat meat again." I'd say give yourself permission to play in those spaces. Someone who loves meat can also be someone who loves plant foods.16 -
So what about meat makes you think it's unhealthy versus any other type of food?
TBH, anytime I tend to see someone who looks younger than they actually are, it tends to be because they stay active.7 -
I respect your choice if this is what you want, but why do you think that avoiding meat would be "healthy"? Is it a philosophical/ethical choice or is it backed by science?4
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@janejellyroll - you’re right. I do have a tendency to be all or nothing. Was also just afraid that unless I went cold turkey (no pun intended), the change wouldn’t “stick”. But what you say makes sense, a little change to start could be smarter.
@dragon_girl26 @mariomicro You bring up a good point. I haven’t delved into the science of all of it, and maybe I need to be more targeted. It’s really the processed meat that seems to be more universally panned, healthwise - no? Bacon, sausage, salami, etc - and I haven’t yet gone to the turkey bacon, chicken sausage options - all pork, for now. And sometimes not just plain old bacon - but hog jowl (southern roots!) 😬0 -
why not just reduce the amount of red meat and replace with lean protein, if its possible history of heart disease. seems so much easier than 'all or nothing' (which, by the way, usually results in failure for most people)
in addition to that, getting adequate protein on a vegan or vegetarian diet can be difficult unless you are very knowledgeable about various protein sources, or have a mentor who is very knowledgeable (and patient)2 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »why not just reduce the amount of red meat and replace with lean protein, if its possible history of heart disease. seems so much easier than 'all or nothing' (which, by the way, usually results in failure for most people)
in addition to that, getting adequate protein on a vegan or vegetarian diet can be difficult unless you are very knowledgeable about various protein sources, or have a mentor who is very knowledgeable (and patient)
I wouldn't say one has to be VERY knowledgeable about various protein sources. There are so many good online resources now for people who are interested in meeting some or all of their nutritional needs with plants. Good plant-based sources of protein include legumes, tofu, tempeh, and seitan, and there's also protein to be found in vegetables and grains. For people who are interested in supplementing, there are many plant-based protein powders too -- there's pea, rice, hemp, and soy.
For anyone who is interested, veganhealth.org is a good evidence-based resource for nutritional information.
I also like this blog post: https://www.thefullhelping.com/15-simple-affordable-and-protein-rich-combinations-of-plant-foods/
It provides a great list of examples for those who might be newer to plant-based meal planning.
If someone wants a mentor, that's great too! This is an awesome online mentorship program for those interested in veganism: https://veganoutreach.org/vegan-mentorship-program/
People who sign up are matched with a volunteer. When possible, they do their best to match people with those of similar backgrounds, so it works really well for people who might not feel confident about their research skills but know they will have questions as they transition.
I don't want to gloss over the protein issue, but many vegans find that it is less of an issue than we were worried it was going to be pre-vegan. If someone is otherwise interested in more plant-based meals or going vegan and protein was their main concern, I'd always encourage them that it can be done. For people approaching it from a fitness angle, there's r/veganfitness, a very helpful and informative community on reddit where you can get plenty of pictures of higher protein meals as well as tips from people who are regularly hitting their macro goals with plants.
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The major problem I have with a vegan diet is that it doesn't really give you enough calories for the day, unless you make it up with grains and starches, which are much less healthy than meat. Most metabolic diseases are a consequence of excess sugars, grains and starch consumption, rather than meat.1
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mariomicro wrote: »The major problem I have with a vegan diet is that it doesn't really give you enough calories for the day, unless you make it up with grains and starches, which are much less healthy than meat. Most metabolic diseases are a consequence of excess sugars, grains and starch consumption, rather than meat.
This simply isn't true. Like non-vegans, vegans are free to vary how many of their calories they want to come from grains and starches. And some grains and starches are quite nutrient-rich, so I'm not sure how you would conclude they are "much less healthy than meat" overall. The sort of thinking that conflates sweet potatoes with Doritos or black beans with Skittles, as if there are no meaningful differences between the foods, is very popular with keto stans, but it's not going to fly here.
Metabolic diseases are most often associated with excess body weight. While people on all types of diets can maintain a healthy body weight, it's noteworthy in the context of your comment that large studies of populations have found that vegans, as a group, have a lower BMI than non-vegans (both vegetarians and those who eat meat), as well as a lower risk of diabetes. Obviously population studies can't tell an individual what their specific outcome will be, but avoiding veganism simply due to fear of grains and starches seems rather silly in that context.
When you look at people around the world who live the longest, they tend to eat plants abundantly, including grains and starches. The mere act of sometimes consuming grains and starches clearly isn't the issue here.
People who are concerned about their health should focus on consuming the right number of calories to maintain a healthy body weight and they should ensure that they're meeting their nutritional needs overall. For vegans and non-vegans alike, this will often include making sure that grains and starches aren't crowding out their other nutritional needs. Non-vegans may also need to focus on making sure that foods like meat and dairy aren't crowding out other nutrient-rich foods. The bottom line is that meat and dairy can be nutrient-rich (like grains or starches), but they can also be less nutrient-dense and begin to pose nutritional problems for some people.
If I critiqued a non-vegan diet on the assumption that it was mostly made up of deli turkey, butter, and ice cream, I'd (rightly) be critiqued for setting up a strawman. Just as one can imagine a non-vegan diet that easily meets nutritional needs, I'd encourage you to expand your thinking about the nutrient density of plants.
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There isn't anything inherently unhealthy about eating meat. Overall diets can be healthy or unhealthy across the spectrum of vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore. In a vacuum, none are inherently healthier than the other. I have three friends who are vegan...actually, two now since one came off his vegan diet because he became anemic and didn't have the nutritional knowledge to fix that with a vegan diet. Of the other two, one is very fit and healthy and rides mountain bikes professionally...the other is obese and she doesn't do a whole lot exercise or activity wise and doesn't have a particularly healthy or balanced diet...she is a jam maker...and she eats a lot of jam.
I am an omnivore, but I also eat a lot of plants and I try to eat a very nutritionally balanced diet as I can. I eat more lean protein than I used to...I eat fish and/or shellfish at least 2-3 times per week...chicken thighs are a staple as well. I eat red meat as well, but not as much as I used to as I generally prefer fattier cuts....same with pork...so those are more of indulgence kind of things for me unless I'm just grilling up some burgers on the patio.
Nothing at all wrong with going vegan or vegetarian...but they can also be just as unhealthy as an omnivore eating an unhealthy diet.
As far as the "fountain of youth" goes...I've seen more than a few rough looking vegans...and rough looking omnivores...most people I see who look "younger" also tend to be pretty active and fit...regular exercise IMO is the fountain of youth, along with a healthy weight.6 -
I'm going to be annoying and nitpicky and say that humans are not carnivores, but omnivores. But anyway - agreed with the above, that any one type of diet (in the "everything that you eat" sense, not like "diet culture") can be unhealthy... Oreos are vegan after all. Not that Oreos on their own are unhealthy, but if that's all you eat as a vegan, that's pretty unhealthy!
...And I'm saying this as someone that has been a vegetarian for ~14 years. With that being said, I do think a whole-food, plant-based diet can be very healthful for many people (https://doctorsthatdo.osteopathic.org/5-myths-of-whole-food-plant-based-diets-debunked). I would suggest changing your diet over slowly. When I first decided to become vegetarian, at 12 yo, I said, "I'm gonna be a vegetarian, but I'm still going to eat chicken, turkey, fish and bacon!" That's obviously incorrect (I was a child) but what I ultimately ended up doing was slowly taking out first red meat, then poultry, then eventually fish. You don't have to do anything that intense if you really don't want to, but maybe just make a goal for yourself to only have 2-3 meals a week with meat, or something like that, and start learning some new vegetarian/vegan recipes that you really like.
If you can afford it, you could start by ordering a couple vegetarian meals a week from a food subscription service, like GoodFood, HelloFresh, that type of thing. That way, you barely even need to think about it, and get some good ideas of what you like. I also really like the app Mealime - you can choose your eating preferences and they will suggest different recipes that you can choose from and make a meal plan for the week, and then it will make you a grocery list based on those recipes.
My dad just really got into the whole-food plant-based lifestyle and he loves Michael Greger (https://nutritionfacts.org/). The thing is, it isn't hard to eat healthy as a vegetarian or vegan, but personally I do find that you maybe just have to think a bit more about where your nutrients, etc. are coming from. Like when you go for dinner, if people aren't used to vegetarian food, they'll just offer you the salad and potatoes, without the meat, and you're often left wondering where the protein is. But it doesn't take long at all to get a hang of it!0 -
Speaking as someone almost 47 years vegetarian: Meat is not "unhealthy". Humans have eaten it for millennia, in most human cultures to some extent . . . really, what are the odds that it's "healthier" to eat in a way that differs from the evolutionary mainstream?
I do think it can be *as healthy* to be vegetarian (or fully plant-based/vegan), it's just a tiny bit more complicated nutritionally, and a little more socially difficult in most circumstances. I never encourage anyone to give up animal foods unless they have an ethical reason to do so. Why add complexity to life, for inaccurate reasons?
Health-wise, I think many people in most developed countries would be well served if they ate more veggies/fruit. (Statistically, most don't even reach the lower mainstream recommendation of 5 servings daily, and some mainstream sources are now suggesting 10+ servings is better.)
There are various eating styles with a reasonable track record for helping avoid heart disease, diabetes, and high cholesterol (Mediterranean comes to mind, for one, or DASH). Healthy weight alone seems to have useful preventive effects, for many. Ditto for regular exercise.
If you want to become vegetarian, fully plant-based, or vegan, that's great. But it's not, in itself, a recipe for health.8 -
If you do decide to move to including more plant based meals I would encourage you to look into middle eastern and Indian food, as it is often plant based and delicious (in my opinion anyway)
I would happily eat falafel every day of the week. Dahl (lentil curry), chana masala ( chickpea curry), lots to choose from. I will often have that over a meat option given the choice.
I have been moving to a more plant based diet for years, and I find it works best to have something that's delicious in its own right, rather than trying to replicate something else. I have never personally been that fond of the meat replacement stuff.
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I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.
I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:
Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage
Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)
Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.
Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?
Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!
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mariomicro wrote: »The major problem I have with a vegan diet is that it doesn't really give you enough calories for the day, unless you make it up with grains and starches, which are much less healthy than meat. Most metabolic diseases are a consequence of excess sugars, grains and starch consumption, rather than meat.
Cite your source.4 -
Start with meatless Monday and see how it goes. Then you'll naturally want to learn more so your Mondays go well. Set yourself up to be successful!2
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CeeBeeSlim wrote: »I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.
I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:
Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage
Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)
Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.
Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?
Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!
I can't speak to the meat (type or quantity) since I'm vegetarian. Whether I were vegetarian or not, I personally would want more veggies/fruit than that. I use 80g as a convenient serving-size metric, but different experts look at it differently (1C of most, 2C of leafy greens, 1/2 cup of some denser things . . . ). You don't mention quantities of your salad or the breakfast veggies, but I'd be going for the minimum of 400g (5 80-g servings) or the cup measures of 5 servings instead, if I wanted to be following mainstream nutritional advice. (In my real life, I use 400g as a minimum, shoot for 800+ daily, usually get there. This is not an automatic effect from being vegetarian, either. Many of my protein sources don't count as veg/fruit: I don't even count some that are plant sourced, like chickpea pasta or tempeh.)
The day you describe looks like heavy on sat fat, light on mono/polyunsaturated fats, which also might be a thing to look at, in your diary over time. Again, pretty mainstream stuff. (I don't know of specific goals for mono/poly fats, which is why MFP lists zero as a goal. But mainstream sources recommend getting them.)
I don't think anyone can say whether you'd feel "better, lighter". That's pretty individual. Your eating doesn't look terrible nutritionally - pretty good, actually, IMO, compared to a lot of people. I suspect people mostly notice dramatic improvements from things like plant-based eating for one of two reasons: (1) their previous diet was pretty poor, or (2) self-fulfilling psychological effect of expecting to feel better plus feeling good about making improvements. But I'm a cynic. 😉😆4 -
I've been vegan for 3 years. But I ate progressively less and less meat over about 12 years. I started with "Meatless Mondays" , then increasingly ate more and more veggie meals and less and less meat meals.
For about the last 4 years before going completely veg, I ate an average of about one meat meal a month.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.
I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:
Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage
Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)
Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.
Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?
Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!
While I agree that eating some meat isn't inherently bad, processed meat (bacon, ham, deli meat) is the worst kind and you are eating it twice every day which isn't ideal. Maybe start by cutting that out first - you could add some beans to breakfast, and a veggie based sandwich for lunch.4 -
While I agree with many of the comments above that it is fine to eat some meat - I really believe it is so much better for the environment to eat less. Good luck in your journey,4
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I eat meat for almost every meal and love it. I, personally, right or wrong, believe that proper weight and getting exercise are what matters and everything else is a footnote or luck of the draw. I figure if I'm eventually proven wrong, I won't be here to find out. But I really believe deep down that I'm right.3
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