My New Eating and Exercise Plan.

tsazani · May 2021

I'm at goal weight. T2D since 2005. In remission.

I eat a 2400 cal LCHF diet. Most days with IF 18:6. Twice a month I do a 48 hr water fast. When I water fast I avoid exercise.

I'm thinking of increasing to 3600 cal and doing TWO 36hr water fasts per week. Every Wed and Sun. This means I will eat 3 meals per day on Thur and Mon.

Effectively I'll be eating 5 days per week. My goal is to maximize the time I'm NOT eating AND maintain my weight.

Good idea? Or not?

charmmeth · May 2021

It would definitely not work for me; I need my regular food intake or I get headachy and very bad tempered! But I am not you. What for you are the advantages of doing this, and what are the disadvantages?

mylittlerainbow · May 2021

I'm not sure I understand this. Is this plan for more optimal overall health? Because once we're maintaining, we aren't supposed to "torture" ourselves with unusual eating plans that include periods of deprivation. We all know that we can't ever "set it and forget it", but we should be able to live more normal lives without obsessing about our eating as we did while we were in the weight reduction phase. If you and your doctor agree this would improve your overall health, that's one thing, but I would be doing a lot of thinking before instituting this as my lifelong maintenance plan.

ninerbuff · May 2021

So what do you mean maximize your time? You aren't doing anything the 2 days you fast physical wise. And the REALITY is to maintain weight, you just don't exceed your calorie intake versus your calories burned in any day. So do you fast because you CAN'T control how much you eat in a day?

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Unknown · May 2021

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L1zardQueen · May 2021

To me, it sounds miserable.

zebasschick · May 2021

i used to juice fast periodically - no food, only juice cut with 50% water. the longest i went was 8 days. after a couple days, i always felt woozy and out of it, couldn't think clearly, lost words, drove poorly.

as far as i know, it's not safe for a type 2 diabetic to go without eating for a longer period. i'm type 2 going too long without calories makes me ill, nauseous, dizzy, very weak, and that's pretty much what happens to everyone i know. besides, by eating more on some days and none on others, you'll have blood sugar spikes and large drops, which can be dangerous.

please talk to your doctor - particularly an endocrine specialist - or nurse practitioner about this!

cmriverside · May 2021

Well sure you get a high from fasting.

All the rest of your fasting nonsense is just that.

charmmeth · May 2021

tsazani wrote: »

Same things used to happen to me when I used to eat a low fat (high carb) diet.

It's called being "hangry". See my post above for my detailed explanation.

You need to snack constantly. Snacking is one of the worst things you can do for your health. But it keeps the "hangary" at bay.

Actually I don't eat particularly low fat or particularly high carb. Nor do I snack constantly. I am just aware that when my blood sugar drops I get itrritable and that I need regular meals through the day (generally three). My point was that fasting in the way that you do would not work for me.

tumbleweed7834 · May 2021

So your hormones are unbalanced and a nutritionist can’t fix it. So you starve yourself. . . . It sounds like maintenance is harder than losing so the pounds come back on so you can lose again. At least you are trying something!

NovusDies · May 2021

I am a fan of experimentation but I am fairly opposed to a major shift in something that seems to be working. Ask yourself if there are other areas of your life that could still use improving to further a healthy lifestyle. Things like sleep hygiene, mental hygiene, relationships, stress management, daily habits, organization, etc. People tend to get too focused on food and exercise and ignore the other parts of a healthy lifestyle.

Also, the evidence that supports fasting helping insulin resistance is only for ~16 hour fasts. There is none, to my knowledge, that says more is better in humans. There is evidence to support that if you are not careful you can be burning muscle in prolonged fasts.

NovusDies · May 2021

tsazani wrote: »

DM2 means type 2 diabetes. I've had it for 15 years. Add another probably 15-20 years of fatty liver ("the 18 yr silent scream") which means 30 years of IR (insulin resistance) making myself sicker and sicker without even realizing it.

I could just do keto which for me is 20-25g net carbs. And I did. For a year. Serious keto dieters say less than 20g TOTAL carbs.

But the idea of just eating animal flesh, eggs, cheese, butter, olive oil and a maybe bit of broccoli is not how I want to live for the rest of my life. When I'm in ketosis people around who don't do keto tell me I stink. It's true.

But I LOVE the mental clarity and high energy levels I feel when I do my water fasts. I can say I'm addicted to it. It's far better high than the "endorphin high" one enjoys after vigorous exercise. Which, btw, is not due to endorphins but to endocannabanoids (your internal MJ). But that's another conversation.

So I eat more carbs (80-100 g net) and compensate with fasting. Both IF and water fasting.

Most physicians and nutritionists are useless. As was I until about 5 years ago. I'm a retired internal medicine physician. I NOW realize that my practice of chronic disease patients had a common root cause: insulin resistance.

Almost all physicians and nutritionists operate on the "energy balance model". AKA CICO. AKA "a calorie is a calorie". I operate on the "carbohydrate insulin model".

Thankfully a lot of docs like yours truely are finally realizing that HORMONES (mainly elevated insulin) is the cause of MOST of the chronic diseases that are ravaging modern societies.

Fasting is kryptonite to obesity snd T2D. I want to spend as much time as I can fasting but at the same time maintain my weight.

Unfortunately doctors are not immune to the internet. There are multiple decade studies on high carb - low fat diets that have cured many ailments. Most often the diets that are curing people have one thing in common - weight loss.

PAV8888 · May 2021

Doc... I bring to your attention that many people and patients get addicted.

To the drugs they take. Or to the drugs they generate internally. They don't start out with the intention of getting addicted. BUT THEY DO GET THERE.

Now is that level of addiction a cause for concern in each individual case? Probably not. Some are harmless. Some are harmful. To each their own and all that. In real life you're probably more educated and more successful than I've ever been/plan to be. It doesn't stop you from being able to get addicted.

I know I know I will get hit by all the disagrees... but all these "mental clarities" that people "feelz" .... where are the double blind studies where the bloody mental clarity that you "feelz" translates to anything other than your personal feelz? Heck... I will take the single blind one as you're probably aware that you haven't eaten... even though I'm fairly sure a good psychologist can fake you out and tell you she's measuring something else!

You're playing with your endorphins and your endocanaboids and your other-internal-oids... just go smoke some pot and bring it out in the open without having to go through gyrations!...

<in case it is not clear, I've been around people addicted to various substances at various times... which has helped form the opinion that I'd rather live in reality as opposed to checked out>

I also remind you that self diagnosed or not, I don't doubt one bit that you're T2 in remission as you put it and that you have remained in remission for many years through your eating plan. Which I think even you will admit is a bit (let's not call it rigid) but let's just say "hard-core". And it has worked.

But why has it worked? Is it necessary for it to be exactly as implemented for it to work?

One issue could be you're not feeding yourself too many carbs and taxing your internal organs. But here I am, not as far along as you, but having reduced weight substantially and engaging in very moderate exercise (walking/light hiking) and achieving similar results to you (normal A1C). Since you've got an extra decade of success on me, I might have to change plans down the road especially if I reduce the duration of my moderate exercise. And I'm prepared to do so if and when I have to. But plans are changeable and I don't see a reason to start with the most aggressive level leaving no room to ramp up if and when it's needed.

So... there exist many paths to achieving results. Each of us, of course, champions the ones we succeed with. And heeding my own words I should recognize that other people can find a different one than the one I did.

I would suffocate in the rigidness that you appear to describe to me. I open the fridge and grab what I want... subject to a running tally that will hopefully prevent me from over-doing things if I make too many sub-optimal choices... Interrupt my normal routine once a month, or once a week, or at any time to specifically engage in a fast for marginal, possibly imagined improvements? Not for me

I truly do wish nothing but success to you. But I perceive you as potentially making life a little bit too difficult for yourself and endangering the beyond very good which you have already achieved in pursuit of a perfect you're just hoping for!

xrj22 · May 2021

That sounds like a diet, not maintenance to me. I do believe in occasional fasting for spiritual reasons or a time to re-set check-in about priorities and discipline. However, I clearly do not function my best (mentally, athletically, or socially) when fasting. I just don't think we are built for that to be an optimal state. Doing it weekly is not something I would aim for.

You seem to be using fasting as a treatment for your diabetes. Have you checked in on whether that sort of treatment is still necessary at your current weight? Although fasting does not have the same side effects as medications, I still see it as a treatment with risks and side effects.

suzij27 · June 2021

I heard a discussion of this method on The Diet Doctor podcast. I believe it was episode #2, but it might have been #12. It was discussed as a means to cure those with severe metabolic disorders such as you are describing.

Longtimers on MFP seem to only support CICO, which perhaps is what you are suggesting doing, just on a weekly not a daily basis. If your health markers are not where they need to be at a normal weight and with regular exercise, perhaps this “tool” is one to explore with your doctor(s).

Good luck!

My New Eating and Exercise Plan.

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