Weight loss and the Type A personality
Bella_Figura
Posts: 4,330 Member
As a type A personality, I find it difficult to truly embrace and internalise the wisdom behind the 'slow is best' approach to weight loss. Intellectually I know it's sensible and science-backed, but emotionally it conflicts with my primary drivers, which are 'hurry up!', 'be perfect' and 'be strong'.
My type A personality includes an 'all-or-nothing' mentality, and explains why I yo-yo between very successful weight loss attempts, followed by rapid regains. I do everthing in extremes. When I'm on plan I have to be more on plan than everyone else. When I'm off plan, I throw in the towel and go completely off the rails. No half measures.
I'd be really interested to hear from other Type A personalities how they silenced that nagging voice that drives them to exercise too much and be too rigid about calories and macros. Did you learn to relax and just enjoy the process without turning it into a straight jacket? Did you learn to pause along the way to smell the roses? Did you learn to shrug off imperfection once in a while?
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I am focusing my type A-ness toward seeing every day logged and weighed as the progress that drives me, and on trusting the maths after seeing that they accurately predict my graph over the past six weeks, and aiming to stay a bit more relaxed about the scale number on any given day. I'm not very social and I prepare all my own food so I do have the luxury of a lot of control, but I am thinking that when the next day comes that I relax my control for social reasons, I will be able to just accept that and pick up my logging again the next day. It helps to look at the moving average and see how little it is affected by an over or under day, for macros as well as calories.
When I feel impatient and like my goal weight is a long time away, I remind myself that I'll probably reach it around the same time as my next tax filing deadline, and then it doesn't seem like a long time away anymore!3 -
I don't put much stock in fixed personality types, but I do have a lot of Type A tendencies. To answer your last questions, I have mellowed significantly over the past ten years or so - one major catalyst for this was having kids, and thereby introducing a certain level of inherent chaos into my life, as well as getting me to question some of my previously existing priorities.
But I also had postpartum depression twice, and I was very lucky to connect with an excellent therapist who over the course of a year helped me work through a lot. I learned a lot about how brains worked. I practiced genuine rest and leisure for probably the first time in my life, instead of performing to others' standards. I learned how to say, "no." I developed a keen sense for manipulation tactics by others, which I had fallen for previously too many times to count.
I also experienced a rather profound religious conversion.
I don't know if any of this is helpful, but all of these things were significant to me for personal growth. I also have minimal tolerance for weight loss snake oil, so it doesn't take me in the way it could have. I am rather perfectionistic about it in some ways, I suppose. I like lists and data collection. I have built a fairly involved spreadsheet. 😂 But I also have the head knowledge to know that weight loss is averages and trends, so really I only have to be good at that.
Wishing you the best. 😄5 -
I don't get personality types because I can't really see myself in either type. I'm a goal-oriented perfectionist but I'm also patient and relaxed. I hate deadlines and too much socializing drains me. I'm very flexible, but I don't lack consistency. Never had an all-or-nothing mindset and I rarely procrastinate. I'm driven by both progress and feelings (always take my feelings into account when I make consistent flexible result-driven plans). I basically have a type B approach to a type A
Regardless of personality types, focus on the issue at hand. Maybe switch your target and let weight loss be a side effect? You could make "log accurately" a target, for example, "successfully make a weight management related decision", "no eating under xxxx calories"...etc. Something you can document as successfully done within a short period of time. You could set goals to do things or not overdo things and use your type A-ness to be a perfectionist about it.6 -
5:2 eating style worked to my strengths (very determined short-term, goal-oriented, likes a challenge) and avoided my weaknesses (bored by routine, dislike long term restrictions).
No I didn't enjoy the process of weight loss, it was just less unpleasant than it would have been otherwise. I don't have to enjoy things to need to do them (work for example!). Maintenance I enjoy though.
Achieved a sensible and steady weight loss without what to me is the dull and frustrating restriction of a same very day calorie deficit. My goal was to lose weight right, not fast - perhaps that is the biggest issue in that you have the wrong goal rather than you are driven by goals?
"Be perfect" doesn't equate to excesssive deficit.
Not using exercise for weight loss makes a big difference for me, satisfies my self-competitive nature with constant challenges, gives me huge dietary flexibility and I enjoy both my exercise and the bigger food allowance it gives me. I view long term maintenance as a challenge too and regard it as a failure if I breach my upper limit and a daily success when I'm within my 7lb maintenance range.
Setting the right goals and using your strengths for you rather than against you is crucial.5 -
I'm not an off-the-charts Type A - I have some type B traits too, but when it comes to weight loss the perfectionist part of my personality comes to the fore. As a data nerd I too create complex spreadsheets and pour over them for hours, tracking trends etc. I've been on this merry-go-round a lot of years (decades) now, so I don't get too worried about daily ups and downs on the scale, but I do find myself obsessively calculating when I might reach goal, and I get reluctant to do anything that will rock the boat and slow down a rapid weight-loss streak.
I worry too much about social situations, where I'll have less control over my choices; I get anxious when anything interrupts my routine. I find it very difficult to ever truly relax and be spontaneous, and when I'm in a weight-loss phase that uptightness gets much worse. I'd love to learn to be less uptight and to go with the flow, but in high-pressure situations my ingrained habits come more to the fore.4 -
I am very much a type a personality.
However.
"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf" is one of my favorite quotes, to the degree that I'm about to have it tattooed on me - and I have never had a tattoo (or much wanted one) before.
I'm not actually at all a laid back person. People will tell you I am - people who know me, but not the people who know me best. I did therapy. I learned about cognitive distortions (https://www.healthline.com/health/cognitive-distortions) and which ones I am prone to and recognize them. I am VERY aware of how my mind works and what is going to be a problem.
This was all a thing I did years and years before weight loss was even on my radar.
When weight-loss became a thing I was very, very careful to;
a-) understand the math/science and that there are things over which I have no control, like water weight and hormones.
b-) manage my expectations and remind myself of them
c-) avoid time and number related goals. (there is no X weight by Y date here!)
d-) direct my perfectionism toward flexibility.
e-) Sincerely, honestly, set myself up to make failure impossible. both in how I define success and the slow speed at which I made change, but also in stuff like making my calorie limit higher than it needs to be (I can't do the red in the profile thing, it triggers something in my brain). Most of my weight loss has happened with me set at maintenance and the rigid goal being between 1200 and maintenance.
There's some other smaller stuff in there, too. I won't do a 'type of diet' (keto, IF, whatever) or claim to be doing it. I REFUSE to get overly precise with a scale or use it for everything - this has drawbacks, sure, for weight loss. The drawback for doing it is making me insane.
Just... there's a lot of rigidity there, but self-awareness is useful and i can bend the rigidity toward refusing to take even step 1 on an unhealthy path and self-sabotage. A lot of those steps would be things seen as virtues here. I won't focus on weight loss or fitness as a 'hobby'. I won't be super precise. I won't do anything that feels too much like 'a challenge'. I won't set time-defined goals.
I will log my food - all my food - with reasonable accuracy. I will eat at least 1200 calories a day and no more than the calories I need to maintain most days. 3 days a year I will eat whatever I want regardless of calories pre-determined days that I know long in advance (they're christmas, thanksgiving and my birthday). I will take my multi-vitamin. I will eat foods I like and enjoy and remove no food I am not allergic or intolerant to.
That is ALL I will do, because I am not going down a path that leads to me feeling like a failure and hating myself because of a scale weight fluctuation or ate a candy bar. I'd rather continue to be fat.8 -
I have the Type A descriptions, but NOT the dieting struggles. Because I just believe it's CICO and not the rigid crap that lots of "healthy people" who believe only eating whole, "clean", "unprocessed" foods are the only way to go. How'd I get to that mindset? Believe it or not, actual research of peer reviewed studies and hitting up the forums here.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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merchddefaid wrote: »I am focusing my type A-ness toward seeing every day logged and weighed as the progress that drives me, and on trusting the maths after seeing that they accurately predict my graph over the past six weeks, and aiming to stay a bit more relaxed about the scale number on any given day. I'm not very social and I prepare all my own food so I do have the luxury of a lot of control, but I am thinking that when the next day comes that I relax my control for social reasons, I will be able to just accept that and pick up my logging again the next day. It helps to look at the moving average and see how little it is affected by an over or under day, for macros as well as calories.
When I feel impatient and like my goal weight is a long time away, I remind myself that I'll probably reach it around the same time as my next tax filing deadline, and then it doesn't seem like a long time away anymore!
This is brilliant.3 -
Thank you all for giving me the benefit of your wisdom and insights - you've given me so much food for thought!
Why didn't it occur to me that I could be focusing on completely the wrong goals? I can genuinely see the benefit of changing my goals from 'lose 1.5 lbs per week and reach 125 lbs by 17th March 2022' to:- lose weight well
- log accurately and consistently
- keep my calories between 1,400 and 2,100 per day
- exercise between 6 and 14 hours per week
- only eat foods I find palatable and pleasurable
- enjoy the process
This set of goals would mitigate against my tendency to put speed above sustainability, to run an unhealthy deficit, to obsess about exercise, and to eat foods I don't like just because they're 'good for me'.8 -
After mulling over the advice I've received, I formulated a completely new set of goals today that will hopefully help me to mitigate the worst of my obsessive habits.
(Please cut me some slack, I'm Type A; I need goals and challenges!)
They are:- Continue to log accurately and comprehensively;
- Exercise between 4 and 14 hours per week;
- Keep calories between 1400 & 1800;
- Eat 4+ colours of fruit/veg;
- Drink at least 1.3 litres of water;
- Eat only for palatability and pleasure (no orthorexic behaviours!)
- Write in my mood/reflections journal
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3 = keep calories between 1400 and MAINTENANCE the vast majority of the time
8 = be willing to re-evaluate my goals as time goes by and my needs change
There is no time limit.
And you may benefit, a lot, by tapering into maintenance once you get closer to goal.
Also down the road re-feeds and diet breaks may be of great benefit, so the calories to maintenance MOST OF THE TIME (and sometimes calories above) should be OK1 -
@wunderkindking my solution to annoying red (because why MFP still hasn't implemented a user selectable green/yellow/red zone for calories ranges based on both values and percentages... anyway, my solution to annoying red was a larger than desired deficit and being in the red ALL the time. In fact when I'm not in the red I am engaged in too large of a deficit! My brain hamsters are rebels!1
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@wunderkindking my solution to annoying red (because why MFP still hasn't implemented a user selectable green/yellow/red zone for calories ranges based on both values and percentages... anyway, my solution to annoying red was a larger than desired deficit and being in the red ALL the time. In fact when I'm not in the red I am engaged in too large of a deficit! My brain hamsters are rebels!
Oh I LIKE THAT actually. Red = Winning, and keeps me from going to low. I might try that!1 -
@wunderkindking my solution to annoying red (because why MFP still hasn't implemented a user selectable green/yellow/red zone for calories ranges based on both values and percentages... anyway, my solution to annoying red was a larger than desired deficit and being in the red ALL the time. In fact when I'm not in the red I am engaged in too large of a deficit! My brain hamsters are rebels!
Yeah, this is what I do too.
Exposure therapy
I'm set about 500 calories artificially low. I'm always in the red. I think it works psychologically like stepping on the scale every day and using a weight-trend. "I'm up two pounds? So what."0 -
3 = keep calories between 1400 and MAINTENANCE the vast majority of the time
8 = be willing to re-evaluate my goals as time goes by and my needs change
There is no time limit.
And you may benefit, a lot, by tapering into maintenance once you get closer to goal.
Also down the road re-feeds and diet breaks may be of great benefit, so the calories to maintenance MOST OF THE TIME (and sometimes calories above) should be OK
@PAV8888, love number 8, and I've added it to my list.
Re number 3, I set the goal between 1400 and 1800 because my maintenance calories once I reach goal should be around 1800 (presupposing my TDEE remains at around 167% of BMR). Should I set the target between 1400 and 2200 (i.e. based on my current TDEE) instead?1 -
@wunderkindking my solution to annoying red (because why MFP still hasn't implemented a user selectable green/yellow/red zone for calories ranges based on both values and percentages... anyway, my solution to annoying red was a larger than desired deficit and being in the red ALL the time. In fact when I'm not in the red I am engaged in too large of a deficit! My brain hamsters are rebels!
I love this!1 -
You lose weight when you consistently eat below your actual true maintenance level more often than you end up eating either at it, or above it!
Please notice actual true today; not estimated by mfp or trackers.
Almost by definition you will only find out if you've achieved that by observing your weight TREND results over time (you're using a weight trend tracker right?)
I'm a believer in making things (as) easy (as possible).
Plus there is considerable evidence that refeeds (by preference structured ones as opposed to all you can eat beer and wings) are not terrible things.
My view of an optimal goal would be more along the lines of:
I have a soft goal for every day to be 500 below maintenance but going up to maintenance is ok. Also if I'm not hungry an extra -250 is ok too but no more than that. But I have a harder goal of ending my week at -3500. But only if it doesn't violate the previous goals (I e. not pushing -750+s to make up). Because even at -3 or -2 or -1000 for the week I will lose some weight. And in any case I'm doing the same things that I'll be doing at maintenance. So really all I've done by not losing as much as I wanted is add an extra week of practice to my arsenal!👍.
But as I said my hamsters are different than yours! Especially when someone waves red at them! 😹🤣
Please notice the long-term aspect of practicing how I will be doing things at goal...
The truth is that things will still change 2, 3, 4, 5 years later. But it's different to have a normal incremental change, in my opinion, compared to having a dichotomy between I'm on a diet and I'm at maintenance
(Oopsies: for 6 i would add satiety or has that been addressed, or is a non issue?)
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^this.
For me, up to (net) maintenance is fine. Down to (net) 1200 is fine. Obviously as time has gone on, the gap between those two numbers has narrowed. my primary goals are not GAINING and not driving my brain hamsters to bad behavior.
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But do you have a serious, tuxedo clad, supervisor hamster and a whole bunch of cookie seeking hamsters trying to escape??😹🤣😇2
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You lose weight when you consistently eat below your actual true maintenance level more often than you end up eating either at it, or above it!
Please notice actual true today; not estimated by mfp or trackers.
Almost by definition you will only find out if you've achieved that by observing your weight TREND results over time (you're using a weight trend tracker right?)
I'm a believer in making things (as) easy (as possible).
Plus there is considerable evidence that refeeds (by preference structured ones as opposed to all you can eat beer and wings) are not terrible things.
My view of an optimal goal would be more along the lines of:
I have a soft goal for every day to be 500 below maintenance but going up to maintenance is ok. Also if I'm not hungry an extra -250 is ok too but no more than that. But I have a harder goal of ending my week at -3500. But only if it doesn't violate the previous goals (I e. not pushing -750+s to make up). Because even at -3 or -2 or -1000 for the week I will lose some weight. And in any case I'm doing the same things that I'll be doing at maintenance. So really all I've done by not losing as much as I wanted is add an extra week of practice to my arsenal!👍.
But as I said my hamsters are different than yours! Especially when someone waves red at them! 😹🤣
Please notice the long-term aspect of practicing how I will be doing things at goal...
The truth is that things will still change 2, 3, 4, 5 years later. But it's different to have a normal incremental change, in my opinion, compared to having a dichotomy between I'm on a diet and I'm at maintenance
(Oopsies: for 6 i would add satiety or has that been addressed, or is a non issue?)
Thanks @PAV8888. First things first, I've estimated my current TDEE by weighing and tracking every single morsel of food and drink that has passed my lips since 17th March (106 days of the most accurate tracking I can manage). I have a spreadsheet where I track my daily weight, my BMR*, my daily intake and my cumulative losses to date - these entries have given me the data to calculate that I'm currently burning calories at the rate of 167% of BMR. I've lost 13.8kg since 17th March which is a faster loss rate than I'm accustomed to, equating to a daily deficit of between 750 and 1000 calories. I recognise that's not healthy or sustainable, hence goal numbers 2 and 3, to stop me going doolally about exercise and running too large a deficit. Incidentally, that large deficit wasn't intentional - I assumed my TDEE was much lower (I'm 56, retired, female, and not an athlete!) and it was only the consistently large losses that made me trust my data and accept that I shouldn't consider myself sedentary or lightly active. I guess I must burn a lot of NEAT calories because I'm certainly not flogging myself to death on the exercise front, and I've never gone lower than 1300 calories a day. I'm currently eating around 1500 calories a day (I'm only 1.55m tall).
*BMR is calculated using the Harris Benedict equation.
Re the trend tracker, I'm using Happy Scale.
Re satiety, I haven't had any issues thus far with hunger or cravings. I don't consider any food off limits as long as it fits within my calorie budget, but I do tend to eat pretty healthy most of the time anyway, whether I'm 'on plan' or 'off plan.' When 'off plan' I just eat lots more and tend to add additional snacks between meals. Currently I'm focusing on managing my portion sizes and cutting out the snacks. That's essentially how I've lost the 13.8kg.
I have another 25kg to go. I've not set a time limit on it, but I'm assuming it'll be at least a year before I'm at maintenance. I'll start transitioning to maintenance calories when I'm around 5-10 kg from goal.
I have a history of successful loss followed by rapid regain, so this time around I'm trying to use the weight loss phase to develop a sustainable strategy for maintenance. I'm road testing things already. The one thing I'm sure of is that I don't want to lose weight by doing anything now that I won't be happy doing for the rest of my life. So exercise will remain dog walks, gardening and the odd cycle ride. Food will remain the stuff I like to eat, eaten slowly and in moderation. As you might've sussed, I'm a data nerd so I'm happy to continue logging and tracking once I'm in maintenance. Journalling will be a key tool, as will the forums. Plus I have a fantastic support network in real life.
If anyone spots any flaws in my strategy, I'd love you to point them out so that I can address them sooner rather than later!1 -
Thought I typed in a reply; but I don't see it!
No flaws!
Keep in mind for ease of use and better 'correspondence' that many place (MFP, Fitbit, Pacer App, others) use Mifflin not Harris. As a not very tall person you may be better represented by the Harris population samples since they drew from a pool of (in general) less tall and lower BMI individuals than the more recent Mifflin samples.
You may add to your "plan" a tapering period of a good 6-12 months or so of losing slowly (like 1-2lb a month type slowly) and a similar time period allowing more restrictive fluctuations (say 1lb TRENDING weight) before allowing for wider fluctuations (say 2+lbs trending weight). (suitable trending weight levels would depend on your normal fluctuations, I am given numbers from a perspective of ZERO regular fluctuations)
In my own history I've failed to maintain during these initial time periods until I actually spent a considerable amount of time trying to lose extremely slowly and then let things taper into maintenance.
In my case I lost 11.1lbs from barely overweight to within normal range over a period of a year and then went down another 2.7lb over the next twelve months before slowly realizing that hunger cues were now reliable enough and the level of logging and analysis I was engaging in was not a necessity.
Please note that I had unstructured re-feeds and diet breaks baked into my life due to social engagements and vacations. Would it have been more advantageous to have structured well thought out ones? Probably. But sometimes being lucky is just as good as being good!
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in case it was unclear, the two years described above followed 1.5 or so years of more rapid losses where I moved from 280+ in early 2014 to 168 in late 2015
I've managed to stick to the mid 150s since with a couple of ups and downs between upper and lower 150s0 -
in case it was unclear, the two years described above followed 1.5 or so years of more rapid losses where I moved from 280+ in early 2014 to 168 in late 2015
I've managed to stick to the mid 150s since with a couple of ups and downs between upper and lower 150s
That's impressive!
My husband is just a few kg away from reaching goal (he only needed to lose 12kg in total) and once at goal he's planning to switch to a 5:2 eating pattern (5 days at a 100 calorie/day deficit, followed by 2 days eating at maintenance +250 calories). That sounds like a pretty good plan.
Provisionally I'm planning to switch to something similar when I reach 63kg (6kg from my ultimate goal and 5% above a BMI of 25). I think I'll then start eating at a deficit of 300/day M-F, and then eat at maintenance at the weekends. That should mean I lose around 0.2kg a week, which will mean it'll take me around 6-9 months to lose the last 6kg.
Re the refeeds and diet breaks, I'm planning to have a 7 day break eating at maintenance calories when I've been 26 weeks on plan (18th to 24th September). I've no holidays or social engagements planned at that period, so it will be a stress-free test week.
Then I'm planning to have a 7 day maintenance break to coincide with Christmas (25th to 31st December) - this will be a more challenging test, as it'll be a socially stressful occasion, with some familial pressure to over-indulge and lots of food temptations. I'll still religiously log everything, and I tend to be pretty active at Christmas, so it'll be an interesting test of controlled relaxation in a socially demanding situation.
When I get to 2022 I'll take stock of where I am and plan other maintenance breaks as required until I hit the 63kg mark outlined above...at which point I'll switch to 5:2 eating as a way of transitioning slowly into maintenance.
At least that's the plan. But you know what they say about planning...man plans, the Gods laugh!3 -
Sounds like you have some solid plans! Are willing to keep records and review them. And you're ready, willing, and able to react! Keep most of your hamsters in line(!), avoid making life (too) difficult for you... and you're on as solid of a ground as anyone of us can be!
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Bella, you've really done your homework.
That sounds like a stellar plan.
Here's something for hamsters:
If you are driving from New York to Chicago and you make a wrong turn, don't keep driving till you hit Miami. Turn around.
I am super free-spirit girl and when I was losing weight there weren't the abundance of knowledgeable posters on this site that there are now, so use these forums! Sounds like you have a great base.
I flew by the seat of my pants in 2007 when I began my 80 pounds (37kg) weight loss. The "diet break" wasn't really a thing that was discussed but I did have Christmas, vacations, etc. and I never restricted my food during those times. The last 15 pounds (7kg) took me nine months and it was not easy for me to stick to plan - so grace was the name of the game. Just turn around when/if you find yourself going South. 2
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