How to fuel to avoid cyclist's 'bonk'

Options
Bella_Figura
Bella_Figura Posts: 3,888 Member
Can I ask for your expertise and opinions on pre-ride nutrition for the leisure cyclist? My husband and I went out for a 20 mile ride today (we're just getting back into cycling after a 25 year break) and right from the off he felt like he had zero energy. Feeble and weak, in his own words. Struggled on flats (we're in Norfolk which is pretty flat generally) and almost needed to walk up the slopes (but dug deep). I know how he felt because it's happened to me in the past, though today I felt fine.

Any tips on what the best proportion of carbs/protein/fats we should have eaten for last night's dinner and this morning's breakfast? Or any other insights or suggestions?

We're both following a CICO plan, but he undercut his calorie budget a bit yesterday (by about 200 cals), so only ate about 1560 calories. He's 5'8 and weighs 80kg. He's not got much cardio vascular fitness, and he has some chronic health issues, but today's weakness was unusual and he's pretty sure it was fueling-related.

Replies

  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
    edited July 2021
    Options
    "Bonk" is caused by the depletion of glycogen stores in the liver and muscles and is unlikely to occur in an hour, but I understand what you guys are gong through. You need to continue to press on at low glycogen stores before the body shuts down and say no more. The liver can store roughly 100–120 grams of glycogen and in the skeletal muscle there's roughly 400 grams of glycogen. That's roughly 2,000 calories. Your body will not permit complete depletion before bonking. Assuming bonking occurs some where around 90%, that 1800 calories. Also assuming a metabolic efficiency of 22%, that 396 calories to the pedals or 1,657 Kj an hour or outputting ~460w steady for one hour. Only the best world tour competitors can do that. As indicated, you need to keep going after that without fueling to get the bonk. How long? That depends on the intensity maintained assuming no fat is burnt during the entire period. The more condition, the higher the fat burn thus prolong the glycogen use.

    Fueling on the bike is personal preference thing. I would start with liquid, Gatorade or coke mid-ride. I don't like gels. They are messy and I need lot of water to wash it down. On longer rides, I might stop mid ride or towards the end for a coke or a Gatorade mixed with my water. I prefer solids food. Nature Valley Fruit & Nut is my go to. I like Cliff and UCAN bars also. On rides under 3 hours I normally don't eat. On longer rides, >4 hours, I start eating around the 1.5 hour mark and generally consume a bar every 90-120 minutes, so not much calories for refueling. You need to train you stomach for it. On those day, I generally have a carb rich breakfast before starting. I never really have success fueling the night before.

    I took a 17 years hiatus and jump back on in 2014 after throwing my back out and couldn't shake the discomfort for over 6 months. I was also >35# overweight, taking statins into my second years, and got label as a pre-diabetic. 5'8" also. You just need more saddle time to get back into shape. It took me two years before I felt comfortable riding in a group (not skill but speed to keep up). I'm still slow up the climbs (especially after the last year and gaining 15 # back) but can hold on the flats. In 2019, I finished my first double century and was shooting for the California Triple Crown before being side tracked. I hope to get that in 2022. If you haven't got a bike fit, you might want to consider that. I was lucky that I was able to jump back onto my old collegiate racer without much problems after two years riding mostly indoors on a trainer (build up an old frame set I had kept since college and set it up with a more upright position). After picking a new bike in 2017, I got a fit done.

    I seem to remember Fort Story has some empty roads with some rollers when I was station there in '95 and often wish I had my bike then. Good luck and keep riding.
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,521 Member
    Options
    There's the issue of fuel: You basically burn carbs while riding, so you have to make sure you eat some before you go. Then there's just the issue of training. As you work up, you'll have some up and down days. Even once you're well trained, you have some up and down days! You can feel off for any number of reasons, including sleep.

    In my opinion, you should start with rides that take about a half hour and work up slowly from there. If you want to go longer, take rests. Some of my best rides have been to cafes, where I had a snack and then rode back. I'm proud to say that I've worked up to about 30m without stopping, but then I really need a rest! (Zzzzzzzz...)

    One great training tool is spinning. Taking a spin class once a week can really boost your strength. And, it's fun!
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    Options
    That really isn't bonking.
    It may well be the cumulative caloric deficit though or simply an excessive deficit though.

    I'll describe what happened when I bonked and you will see how extreme it is.....
    Had planned and fuelled for a 60 mile ride but felt good and randomly decided to push it up to 80 miles which was pushing the absolute limit for me at the time.
    About 75 mile mark tiredness very suddenly became feeling like I was riding up a constant hill, with two flat tyres and a howling headwind (it was flat, tyres were fine and no wind). Crushing fatigue and poor co-ordination.
    Once I checked the tyres I knew on some level what had happened but was too mentally confused to stop for a carby drink or snack despite going past numerous shops. In fact too confused to unclip my feet when I stopped at a junction with inevitable consequences. Taking on carbs at home brought me "back in the room" within minutes although I felt pretty awful for hours.

    What you describe doesn't fit the bonking scenario (complete glycogen depletion) as you say you had zero energy from the off.

    There isn't a best macro proportion (that's not a great way to look at fuelling exercise anyway).
    The idea of carb loading the night before also is a bit old-fashioned approach - keeping a reasonable amount of carbs all the time and keeping your deficit low is more effective than day before loading.

    A carby breakfast (cereal for example) and maybe stopping for coffee and cake should be more than enough for a leisure ride, if it isn't I'd look more at your overall dieting strategy rather than a narrow view of on the day fuelling.
    Is your and your husband's rate of weight loss in a sensible range for people wanting to exercise?

    You aren't going to have a big calorie burn from a flat 20 mile leisure ride and quite possibly a majority of your energy will be coming from fat and not carbs anyway. I've got to be riding briskly before carbs overtake fat as the predominant fuel.

    The other thing is build up your CV fitness steadily, 10% distance increase per week should work but it could be that 20 miles is too much right now.
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,888 Member
    Options
    Thanks for the input folks.

    I agree this wasn't bonking proper - I was just too lazy to think of a better term.

    We're leisure cyclists and starting from a pretty low fitness base. Husband has some chronic health issues (including a kidney transplant, gout, high BP, high cholesterol - all issues controlled through medication and diet). He's 59 and was a keen walker until a year ago when he had a nasty meniscus injury, which meant months of slow recovery and no walking. So really in terms of the exercise he's gone from 0-60 in one leap.

    He has been approved for gentle exercise by his medical team.

    He's dropped from 88kg to 80kg at a reasonable rate of about 1.8kg - 2kg per month. He's halfway (goal is 72kg). He's always loved cycling, and thought he was fit enough for 20 mile rides - I guess we're taking it too far too fast. He only had a day's recovery after a 15 mile ride on Monday. The roads are pretty flat though, and we're only cycling at a gentle pace (about 12 mph).

    Before this morning's ride he had a crap night's sleep and woke up feeling unrefreshed and lethargic. I proposed deferring the ride, but he was adamant he wanted to go. He had peanut butter on toast for breakfast, and we set off about an hour later.

    I told him that everyone has bad days and this was just one of those. He feels fine now...no lasting damage done! But he wants to know if there are any nutritional tips that would prevent a repeat occurrence.
  • Djproulx
    Djproulx Posts: 3,084 Member
    Options
    OP, I agree with the responses above, in particular because you describe your husband as feeling "off" right from the start. That suggests to me that he started the ride in a depleted state, perhaps from the prior day's calorie deficit or just starting the ride in a fasted state. In general, riding requires some fuel. Reading the comments above should give your husband an idea of where a change might help.

    Finally, I echo the thought that if your riding increases in duration, intra-workout fueling becomes a consideration. I'm riding quite a bit these days, so fueling the long rides is not only necessary for the day of the ride, but also to help recovery for the next day's work.
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,521 Member
    Options
    Yes, @sijomial describes a real "bonk." Those can be very bad. Like when a marathoner or triathlete starts staggering around on the course. It's dangerous, for sure, particularly on a bike! I've gotten very close, to the point where I got lost and confused and didn't know how to get home. I always ride with a packet of Gu in my pocket in case I run into a problem. But, anything with sugar will work!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    Yes, @sijomial describes a real "bonk." Those can be very bad. Like when a marathoner or triathlete starts staggering around on the course. It's dangerous, for sure, particularly on a bike! I've gotten very close, to the point where I got lost and confused and didn't know how to get home. I always ride with a packet of Gu in my pocket in case I run into a problem. But, anything with sugar will work!

    I've only bonked once or twice, but the first time it happened I remember crying because I wanted to go home but I didn't know how (I was in my home city, in a familiar location). Fortunately I was with a running buddy who understood what was going on.
  • acpgee
    acpgee Posts: 7,624 Member
    Options
    I've bonked once and it was a fascinating experience.

    It was during an organized inline skating tour in Holland, of 140 km with 6 hours of skating and 6 breaks of 10 minutes for food as it is really hard to eat while skating. You had to stay with the pack, paced by bicyclists and there were motorcyclists who held back traffic at intersections so you could skate continuously. If you coudn't keep up with the pack you had to get into the trailing first aid van.

    About 15 minutes from the finish line I suddenly got totally confused and it became almost impossible to coordinate skating movements. One of the motorcyclists from the organization saw me struggling at the back of the pack, and with his teeth tore off the corner of a packet of strawberry jam, the kind they have in hotels for breakfast and told me to suck on it. In my confusion I obeyed, and within minutes my brain fog suddenly cleared and I could finish the event.

    This really brought home that while your muscles can run on fat, your brain only runs on glycogen. It also amuses me that the practical dutch don't rely on expensive preparations for glycogen replenishment marketed to long distance sport enthusiasts.

    I've had friends who jogged full marathons (5 hour finish time) who avoided glycogen depletion by nibbling on dried apricots during the whole event.
  • Djproulx
    Djproulx Posts: 3,084 Member
    Options
    Thanks for the input folks.

    Before this morning's ride he had a crap night's sleep and woke up feeling unrefreshed and lethargic. I proposed deferring the ride, but he was adamant he wanted to go. He had peanut butter on toast for breakfast, and we set off about an hour later.

    I told him that everyone has bad days and this was just one of those. He feels fine now.
    ..no lasting damage done! But he wants to know if there are any nutritional tips that would prevent a repeat occurrence.

    Yep, I'd say it was simply a continuation of his fatigue from poor sleep and maybe too few calories. Next ride will be better!
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,995 Member
    Options
    Clearly bonk doesnt have same meaning as it does here :o

    Have never heard of bonk in the context you are describing (but am not a cyclist)

    some of the sentences are funny to me;
    I've bonked once and it was a fascinating experience.
    I've only bonked once or twice, but the first time it happened I remember crying because I wanted to go home


    sorry, will stop derailing the thread now. :*
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,888 Member
    Options
    Clearly bonk doesnt have same meaning as it does here :o

    Have never heard of bonk in the context you are describing (but am not a cyclist)

    some of the sentences are funny to me;
    I've bonked once and it was a fascinating experience.
    I've only bonked once or twice, but the first time it happened I remember crying because I wanted to go home


    sorry, will stop derailing the thread now. :*

    I'm English and I'm the OP, so I know exactly what type of bonk you're thinking of....but I've been hanging around with cyclists long enough to know the lingo so I suppressed my inner schoolgirl sniggers and went with the recognised term that cyclists would understand. You can leave the schoolyard but the schoolyard never leaves you!
  • joolsmd
    joolsmd Posts: 375 Member
    Options
    Clearly bonk doesnt have same meaning as it does here :o

    Have never heard of bonk in the context you are describing (but am not a cyclist)

    some of the sentences are funny to me;
    I've bonked once and it was a fascinating experience.
    I've only bonked once or twice, but the first time it happened I remember crying because I wanted to go home


    sorry, will stop derailing the thread now. :*

    Its the only reason I clicked on the post to be honest. :D
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    Options
    Clearly bonk doesnt have same meaning as it does here :o
    @paperpudding

    It does. :smiley:
    At least it makes a nasty experience sound like fun.

    But it's origin in cycling probably goes back to the other meaning of bonk as in hit or knock - similar to runners calling hypoglycaemia hitting the wall.

    "Should have ducked, got bonked on the head."



  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
    Options
    Thanks for the input folks.

    I agree this wasn't bonking proper - I was just too lazy to think of a better term.

    We're leisure cyclists and starting from a pretty low fitness base. Husband has some chronic health issues (including a kidney transplant, gout, high BP, high cholesterol - all issues controlled through medication and diet). He's 59 and was a keen walker until a year ago when he had a nasty meniscus injury, which meant months of slow recovery and no walking. So really in terms of the exercise he's gone from 0-60 in one leap.

    He has been approved for gentle exercise by his medical team.

    He's dropped from 88kg to 80kg at a reasonable rate of about 1.8kg - 2kg per month. He's halfway (goal is 72kg). He's always loved cycling, and thought he was fit enough for 20 mile rides - I guess we're taking it too far too fast. He only had a day's recovery after a 15 mile ride on Monday. The roads are pretty flat though, and we're only cycling at a gentle pace (about 12 mph).

    Before this morning's ride he had a crap night's sleep and woke up feeling unrefreshed and lethargic. I proposed deferring the ride, but he was adamant he wanted to go. He had peanut butter on toast for breakfast, and we set off about an hour later.

    I told him that everyone has bad days and this was just one of those. He feels fine now...no lasting damage done! But he wants to know if there are any nutritional tips that would prevent a repeat occurrence.

    I don't think this is really a type of food to fuel a ride kind of thing. This is more likely due to the cumulative effect of a fairly steep deficit and a bad nights sleep.

    A 20 mile ride can be challenging if untrained from a CV standpoint, but it doesn't really require any kind of specific food before hand. Sometimes it's just a bad day. I do a fair amount of cycling and mountain biking and there are just some days where I have no legs or I lose my legs earlier than normal...for me, this is usually a cumulative effect of fatigue from other things going on in my life and wearing me down or if I've been riding a lot and not really taking recovery time.