Road bike fit and buying online/direct
jjpptt2
Posts: 5,650 Member
My primary road bike has always been a touch too big for me. Back when I was riding more, in better shape, and a bit lighter, the fit issues were only enough to be an annoyance, never an actual problem. But now it's enough to make me not want to ride.
And that seems like a good reason to buy a new bike.
I'm still in the thinking/research phase of things, but I'm kicking around the idea of buying a Canyon direct from Canyon. Is this a terrible idea given the whole reason I'm buying a new bike is due to fit issues (mostly reach)? I'm not new to riding, nor do I have any odd physiology that makes bike fitting difficult... but still, this seems risky.
It's about an $800 price difference between the Canyon and a comparable Specialized or Cervelo, which would be my other options. Someone talk me down off the ledge.
And that seems like a good reason to buy a new bike.
I'm still in the thinking/research phase of things, but I'm kicking around the idea of buying a Canyon direct from Canyon. Is this a terrible idea given the whole reason I'm buying a new bike is due to fit issues (mostly reach)? I'm not new to riding, nor do I have any odd physiology that makes bike fitting difficult... but still, this seems risky.
It's about an $800 price difference between the Canyon and a comparable Specialized or Cervelo, which would be my other options. Someone talk me down off the ledge.
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Replies
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If a new bike make you want to get out there - that’s a good reason. The number of bikes you need is a simple formula: n+1 where n is the number you currently have lol!
On a more serious note- if you haven’t had a fitting recently, maybe try it with your old bike. Be sure you go to a real pro- someone recommended for road bikes. Sometimes the fit needs a change- particularly if you have some mobility issues (possible if you haven’t been riding much). If you think you bought the wrong size- don’t bring it back where you bought it - they already advised you wrongly.
My road bike needed some modifications-particularly to the stem which was too aggressive for me. Also wanted to add that i saves hundreds by buying a prior year’s model at the local shop. Maybe they have something (maybe I just got lucky).
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If it gets you riding again that's a great reason to splash the cash.
If you get the right frame size the rest is adjustable.
Could you have a word with your local trusted bike fitter just to confirm they agree the size you think is right actually will be?
Cost saving on the bike could also fund a professional fitting, I found my position was pretty good but was significantly improved with a load of small tweaks.
The only equipment recommended from my fitting were different shoe inserts and a new saddle (resolving saddle discomfort was the primary driver for me and the biggest win).
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How far off is your current bike?
You can take the geometry chart for the Canyon to a fitter. You bought be able to find one locally to borrow. I think they have a return policy, seems like they have to go sell direct.
Which Cervelo is in consideration? They're expensive, but great bikes!1 -
If it gets you riding again that's a great reason to splash the cash.
If you get the right frame size the rest is adjustable.
Could you have a word with your local trusted bike fitter just to confirm they agree the size you think is right actually will be?
Cost saving on the bike could also fund a professional fitting, I found my position was pretty good but was significantly improved with a load of small tweaks.
The only equipment recommended from my fitting were different shoe inserts and a new saddle (resolving saddle discomfort was the primary driver for me and the biggest win).
I've got a 54cm Cannondale CAAD12 that fits pretty well and a 56cm Specialized Roubaix that is a bit too long. I can pull geometry/measurements from those 2 bikes (hopefully) and have a pretty good idea of what fits and what doesn't... so I don't think buying online would be a complete unknown. But then again... I don't know what I don't know.
You bring up a good point about everything else being adjustable.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »How far off is your current bike?
You can take the geometry chart for the Canyon to a fitter. You bought be able to find one locally to borrow. I think they have a return policy, seems like they have to go sell direct.
Which Cervelo is in consideration? They're expensive, but great bikes!
Not far. The biggest thing is that I need a bit less reach. I've already shortened thing up with saddle position and stem length as much as is reasonably possible (both from a previous bike fit and through my own fit trial and error)... so I think I've reached the limits of how short this frame can ride.
I'm looking at 105 level builds, Ultegra if the price is really that good (but so far they aren't)... the base Caledonia is on my list of considerations. My tri bike is a Cervelo, and I've rented a few when traveling... I'm a fan, especially now that the have some more competitive options at lower pricepoints.0 -
I've been riding a C3 for years and love it. Old version of the Caledonia. But Canyons seem like great bikes and everyone I know who's had one has been happy with it. It's a lot of bike for the $$.
It sounds like you're on the right track. But we're not going to tell you not to buy a bike. 😃0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »But we're not going to tell you not to buy a bike. 😃
Sorry, my original post must not have been clear. The question is not should I buy a bike, but rather buying direct from Canyon vs buying from an LBS.1 -
I think you should buy a Cervelo because they're great bikes and you can't go wrong with the C series. 🙂
But you know exactly where your fit needs to be. If you can't find geometry numbers for the bikes you currently have to compare against you can measure the relevant stuff to compare against. Or get pre fit.
https://www.canyon.com/en-us/customer-service/returns.html
Looks like you get 30 days to decide whether you'll keep it, and they'll pay return shipping if not.1 -
The more I look, the more I'm finding that a shorter reach (good) also comes with a shorter stack (not sure if good or bad)...
I'm leaning more towards going through an LBS that knows what they are doing, rather than leaving it up to me who probably only knows enough to get himself into trouble. It'll cost more, but if I ride the bike for 10+ years like I did my current Specialized, then it'll be worth the extra $800 to get things right the first time. Plus, supporting a good LBS is always good.1 -
I went in a slightly different direction at the start. Coughed up the cash for a professional bike fit from a guy who makes his living as a fitter first. He fit me on a GURU system to get numbers for a road bike. He then took my existing Cannondale roadie and fit it to those numbers. He also did a fit in my triathlon position, then gave me three or four examples of tri bikes that would easily fit my numbers. When I bought the tri bike I had it shipped directly to him. He also does tune ups and maintenance on my bike, since I'm much less knowledgeable and patient about bike repairs than most who are posting here.
Looking forward to following your bike selection thread to the new purchase. I have several roadie friends in the Canyon and S-Works camps, as well as numerous Cervelo lovers among the triathlon set.
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I went in a slightly different direction at the start. Coughed up the cash for a professional bike fit from a guy who makes his living as a fitter first. He fit me on a GURU system to get numbers for a road bike. He then took my existing Cannondale roadie and fit it to those numbers. He also did a fit in my triathlon position, then gave me three or four examples of tri bikes that would easily fit my numbers. When I bought the tri bike I had it shipped directly to him. He also does tune ups and maintenance on my bike, since I'm much less knowledgeable and patient about bike repairs than most who are posting here.
Looking forward to following your bike selection thread to the new purchase. I have several roadie friends in the Canyon and S-Works camps, as well as numerous Cervelo lovers among the triathlon set.
If I do end up boing through an LBS, I'll do something similar to what you did (get fit measurements, then see what fits those numbers)... but living in a small town I don't have any shops within 2hrs that offer more than 1 or 2 good road brands, so I want to have an idea of what I want and what will work (both for my riding and for my budget), so I know what shop(s) to hit.
Unfortunately I can't go into a shop, get fit, then have 5 different bikes/brands as options.0 -
I was agonizing about this in the spring! I have an OK road bike, but as a birthday splurge I was considering buying a much nicer one. The Canyons look really good!
What saved me about $3k was that nothing was available-- and I see that the one I wanted (Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0, Medium size) is still out of stock. I bought a bunch of parts and accessories instead.
Note: there continues to be a global bicycle shortage! Maybe wait until next year? Maybe buy a shorter stem for your existing bike?
The fitting issue also bothered me. Three of my local shops offered fitting, even during quarantine. It came with a discount if you bought a bike from them afterward, but it really wasn't all that significant, and they charged a discounted rate for any part substitutions (with labor), which usually meant either a different seat or stem. The fit gave you a recommended geometry, which you could compare to the Canyon specs and order the one that comes closest, making substitutions as necessary (e.g., to the stem and seat).
Now, the downside of fitting: You spend an hour on the fitting system deciding how you want your bike to feel. The fitter can ask questions about what kind of riding you will do and set you up for it. But, if you request a fit for the fastest time-trial geometry available, they will fit you to a very low aerodynamic position, which you may or may not like after an hour of riding (or even after 15 minutes). In other words, there is a question of preference, which can and will change over time. I now ride an "endurance" geometry, for example, whereas in my 20s I was very happy to ride a criterion bike for hours on end.0 -
I'm 6'1", I have long legs and a shorter torso. Which puts me on a 58 cm, every one I've had has always come with a 110 mm stem and I've always been most comfortable on a 90 mm.
FWIW, shortening the stem makes a bike respond more quickly to steering input. If there's a scale from ponderous to twitchy, I prefer immediacy in handling myself so a short stem on a Cervelo is my idea of fun. But there's only so far you can go.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I think you should buy a Cervelo because they're great bikes and you can't go wrong with the C series. 🙂
Cervelo Caledonia was the other leading choice for me! Well, maybe next year!1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I'm 6'1", I have long legs and a shorter torso. Which puts me on a 58 cm, every one I've had has always come with a 110 mm stem and I've always been most comfortable on a 90 mm.
I'm 5'8" with short legs and ride bikes with a 530-535mm effective top tube. Every bike I brought came with a 90mm and I been changing it out with 110mm. Got 3 sitting in the garage, we should make an exchange, lol.
I'm actually in the middle of a build. Went with open mold, ultra light frame. Trying out Sensah Cabon 11 drive train with SRAM Force brakes (still waiting on the brakes and hope to have it finish next week). It's going to be my short distance climber, 11-34 cassette with compact cranks (yes, 1:1 ratio for my fat *kitten*). Trying out Sigeyi power meter also.
OP, get a pro bike fit. It was the best investment I made. I have used that fit guide on four different bike setup so far. My is four years old now and I'll probably be getting another done next year.2 -
If you want to buy direct, cool. It will save you money. Cervelo vs Canyon? They're both great. I purchased my SpeedMax direct from Canyon. It arrived intact in a large, well engineered packing box. They had a URL to instructions on assembly, but I just jumped in and figured it out. I did look at the comparable Cervelo bike closely, but felt it wasn't as good a deal economically because the wheels were inferior and would have needed to be swapped out. That would have been another $2500.00 or so.
I would like to caution you not to ignore what's much more important than brand: FIT. The harder you ride, the greater an issue fit will become. If you intend to win a race, fit is a top priority. You should see a professional bike fitter to have them figure out what geometry you need while on your bike. Your fitter will have access to which sizes of which bikes can be adjusted to your needs. The fitter will either be able to adjust the bike for you or give you a very specific (down to the millimeter) set of instructions for a bike shop to adjust.
I figure bike fit made a >1 mph difference in my speed through my last triathlon bike split. In addition, a good fit allowed me to avoid pain and fatigue that was holding me back on the run, and that made a huge difference.0 -
Going to make some for adjustments by feel while watching today's tour stage...
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Just for context...
I've been fitted, 3 different times to 2 different bikes. The fit for my tri bike was awful, and there's not much room for error on a tri bike. Both fits to my road bike have been fair.
IMO, It's a crapshoot, largely dependant on the fitter and your ability to feel subtle changes on a trainer/fit machine, and those changes don't always translate well to actual miles on an actual road.
Maybe that's why I'm a bit soured on the real need for a formal fit. Will I take advantage of it if I buy through an LBS? Absolutely. But I'm pretty sure I can feel my way to a fit that's 95% as good as what a pro would give me.1 -
For the most part you can kinda feel it out but Might be too late might have already been covered. Get fitted then buy a buy where the geometry fits you.
https://ibfi-certification.com/find-a-fitter/
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Just for context...
I've been fitted, 3 different times to 2 different bikes. The fit for my tri bike was awful, and there's not much room for error on a tri bike. Both fits to my road bike have been fair.
IMO, It's a crapshoot, largely dependant on the fitter and your ability to feel subtle changes on a trainer/fit machine, and those changes don't always translate well to actual miles on an actual road.
Maybe that's why I'm a bit soured on the real need for a formal fit. Will I take advantage of it if I buy through an LBS? Absolutely. But I'm pretty sure I can feel my way to a fit that's 95% as good as what a pro would give me.
Agree completely that the fitter's knowledge and your ability to communicate with him/her is key. My fitter uses the GURU fit system and we spent over 3 hours working together during my first fitting. After many of the upfront measurements were made, and being observed while I rode my bike on the trainer, he put me on the GURU and we compared the feel of my "requested" optimal fit to different positional options. This was particularly helpful with the tri bike. I thought I wanted a very aggressive position, but when riding at higher power outputs, it just wasn't working. We added height to the aerobars and voila! much better.
He also had me take the bike out and ride for two weeks to see how it performed and whether I liked the fit. I then came back and we tweaked it a bit more. So it was money well spent in my case.
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The saddle looks like it's titled nose down with a lot of setback, the bars looks tilted up, and there's not much of a vertical offset between saddle and bar. That's atypical setup. Do you have flexibility issues? Was this fit as a tri or TT setup? Transfer from tri or TT setup to road? Did the fitter fit you to this and explain why? How long is the stem? If you don't have structural issues, everything screams it's too small to me. If my fitter fit me to that without a detailed explanation and recommendation (and a strong objection on a compromised setup), I wouldn't revisit him/her ever.0
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The saddle looks like it's titled nose down with a lot of setback, the bars looks tilted up, and there's not much of a vertical offset between saddle and bar. That's atypical setup. Do you have flexibility issues? Was this fit as a tri or TT setup? Transfer from tri or TT setup to road? Did the fitter fit you to this and explain why? How long is the stem? If you don't have structural issues, everything screams it's too small to me. If my fitter fit me to that without a detailed explanation and recommendation (and a strong objection on a compromised setup), I wouldn't revisit him/her ever.
The saddle is pretty level, just the optics of the picture. The bars are rotated up in that pic, an on-the-road adjustment I made last ride just to try to get myself home (was a bad ride). They are no longer like that.
I've never had much difference in bar height and saddle height, whether I adjust things myself by feel, or fresh off a professional fit. I'm not sure how much is that is because of me and my physiology vs bike geometry.0 -
Took some trainer video and what I'm feeling on the road does seem to match what I saw in the video.
I adjusted the saddle position, saddle height, bar height and rotation... We'll see tomorrow.
If I'm being honest, I think being out of shape and having a weaker than normal core is probably my biggest issue. But that does nothing to justify a new bike, so nevermind... I'm in fine shape.1 -
How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?0
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Took some trainer video and what I'm feeling on the road does seem to match what I saw in the video.
I adjusted the saddle position, saddle height, bar height and rotation... We'll see tomorrow.
If I'm being honest, I think being out of shape and having a weaker than normal core is probably my biggest issue. But that does nothing to justify a new bike, so nevermind... I'm in fine shape.
A little improvement this morning, but still a lot of weight/pressure on my hands and increasing discomfort after just 20minutes of riding.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?
Honestly? At this point, I'm not sure. Just going by feel on the bike, I want my hoods to be about 15mm lower and about 30mm closer. But I'm so far down the rabbit hole at this point that I'm not sure if I can see the forest or just the trees.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?
Honestly? At this point, I'm not sure. Just going by feel on the bike, I want my hoods to be about 15mm lower and about 30mm closer. But I'm so far down the rabbit hole at this point that I'm not sure if I can see the forest or just the trees.
No worries! I can report a similar recent experience. I've had become much less comfortable on my bike in recent years and also a bit slower. (Time marches on!) Problems include sore hands, back, shoulders, and hips. I found that banging over the potholes on my usual on-road ride was leaving my shoulders sore the next day. What attracted me to many of the endurance bikes was the word "compliance." I started lusting after the Specalized Roubaix, with its bouncy seat and handlebars (with quite a lot of added weight). The only thing that put me off was the lack of bicycles in the shops and the limited ability to do test rides due to quarantine rules!
So, I chose to focus on improving my current bike. Changing to lower-pressure larger tires was a no-brainer. I also added a compliant stem (Redshift). I'm still pondering the seat. I had my bike on the trainer all winter and rode it 1-2 times a week, making several small changes. This is a great way to tweak things up as you can monitor your speed/power and also your comfort. I took careful measurements of my current bike and compared it in detail to those of bikes I was considering (Spec. Roubaix, Canyon Endurace, Trek Domane, Cervello Caledonia, ..., all in the ~$3k range). As I looked at the specs of other bikes, I found that my existing geometry was already in the "endurance" category and wasn't going to change that much with a new bike. Given that I'm very used to this geometry and have tweaked it into it's current configuration over many years, I think that is a good thing.
So, with all this careful thought, measuring, fretting, and then capitulation to keeping my current bike, I can offer the following: If you think that a shorter stem might make you more comfortable, buy one and try it. It's very easy to swap out and you can get one very affordably on Ebay or elsewhere. You can also try moving your seat forward a bit. On each change, try riding for at least an hour and take note of your comfort and performance.
Further advice: If your current stem is a 110mm, an 80mm may be too much of a jump. More likely you want to try a 90mm.0 -
There are some really good videos online about how to improve your bike fit. I like the series Cam Nichols on YouTube does with bike fitter Neill Stanbury. I’m going to try to link one of them here
https://youtu.be/vMmbXAWcgh4 1 -
There are some really good videos online about how to improve your bike fit. I like the series Cam Nichols on YouTube does with bike fitter Neill Stanbury. I’m going to try to link one of them herehttps://youtu.be/vMmbXAWcgh4
I know them... Just watched this one last week.1 -
Bike manufacturers should offer wheel upgrades as part of their stock configurations... wheels should be independent of build configurations. Sucks that I have to go up to Ultegra DI2 for a decent wheelset with many brands.2
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