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Research suggests there is more to it than simply CICO for obese people. More study needed.
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I don't get it.
BEE is 'to keep the lights on' so doesn't include NEAT, so how could a reduction in NEAT explain a lower BEE?
I mean, I totally get how exercising could lead to a lower NEAT, but that doesn't seem to be what this research is talking about, since they're talking about a lower BEE.
Nothing scientific, just my n=1 experience, but it seems like a miracle I managed to lose weight (and faster than predicted even) eating back all of my exercise calories, considering I started at a BMI of 34. Perhaps more research can determine the how and why of this mechanism so individuals can tailor their weight loss strategy to their situation.1 -
I think he went off study and was explaining other reasons that are also valid for the fact exercise could not have the NET increase to the day one might think.
And prior study, studies actually I recall others that seemed to confirm the NEAT decrease - then again those always had diet in the mix.
I'd be curious if they measured from the employees for the database some of the common hormones related to fat loss and hunger and such, seems like it would be interesting how those play into it since I'm betting they do.
Since it was a point in time static measurement too - I wonder if they polled people if they were currently losing weight or in the last 6 months had been. For actual research studies on diet, that always seems to be a requirement to be a participant of no diet attempts recently - because they know how it could skew the results.
Like did the higher compensation on higher BMI result from greater % of those folks being in a diet at the time?
I recall years ago researching why 1 study had huge variances in measured BMR to calculated - they took people in any situation and didn't ask about diet. Another study excluded people on a diet or recently, and got measured within 5% of calculated.
I dug into the NASA employee data study because a lot of fitness related info came from it, I'll have to see if I can find the time for this.
Because of course, the results is only as good as the data - and if they don't check some things, actually leaves you wondering. I'm sure still something there, just to what degree.2 -
Personally it a guessing game with the finer points.0
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Knowledge is power. If I know I am not likely to expend as much energy as calculated, I can adjust for that. If I know my weight probably won’t melt off, I can stop comparing myself to others and getting discouraged. I don’t find these studies disheartening.13
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Knowledge is power. If I know I am not likely to expend as much energy as calculated, I can adjust for that. If I know my weight probably won’t melt off, I can stop comparing myself to others and getting discouraged. I don’t find these studies disheartening.
Same here.
Knowledge is power. Exactly.2 -
As someone who comes from a line of women weighing 200-300+ lbs one one side of the family (before processed foods was a thing) and barely 100 lbs on the other…you can’t tell me there’s no genetic component somehow influencing weight and weight loss It’s still going to come down to CICO but since I inherited from the wrong side of the family, I appreciate insight into methods that may work better for me.5
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As someone who comes from a line of women weighing 200-300+ lbs one one side of the family (before processed foods was a thing) and barely 100 lbs on the other…you can’t tell me there’s no genetic component somehow influencing weight and weight loss It’s still going to come down to CICO but since I inherited from the wrong side of the family, I appreciate insight into methods that may work better for me.
There is definitely a genetic component to weight, body size and our resting muscle tone and muscle mass. If people say otherwise, they are seriously misguided. There's also the environmental impact from our families in terms of the types of foods that were normally served, how food was viewed (e.g., as a means to express "love", rewards, etc.), and how food was used to cope with stress (which I believe ability to handle stress appropriately is both genetic and learned, as well).
The good news is that I don't think anyone is "doomed" to be obese based on genetics alone. I think the key is finding something that works for you and your body for life, being realistic with your expectations and changing your mindset into someone who can have success with weight loss vs. someone who is "doomed" to be big because of genetics.14 -
I don’t have access to the full article. But here’s another one that may be saying something similar.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqab270/6369073?redirectedFrom=fulltext0 -
That study again starts off with a premise I don't believe is true. And then goes down the same rat hole of foolishness with contradictions against what they are suggesting.
"However, obesity rates remain at historic highs, despite a persistent focus on eating less and moving more, as guided by the energy balance model (EBM). This public health failure may arise from a fundamental limitation of the EBM itself."
I guess these Dr's never were in patient practice to see there is a huge difference between advice given and advice followed. Shoot - and that's a Dr talking straight to a patient.
Never mind government advice given to the masses.
Now - if people actually followed the advice in general to no effect - then perhaps they have something to talk about.
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That study again starts off with a premise I don't believe is true. And then goes down the same rat hole of foolishness with contradictions against what they are suggesting.
"However, obesity rates remain at historic highs, despite a persistent focus on eating less and moving more, as guided by the energy balance model (EBM). This public health failure may arise from a fundamental limitation of the EBM itself."
I guess these Dr's never were in patient practice to see there is a huge difference between advice given and advice followed. Shoot - and that's a Dr talking straight to a patient.
Never mind government advice given to the masses.
Now - if people actually followed the advice in general to no effect - then perhaps they have something to talk about.
But then they couldn't create a career for themselves doing research and applying for grants to try to prove a negative.
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I do believe just saying CICO is oversimplified. Many factors can affect it. That said, if you want to lose fat, it's hard to get around it....4
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »I don’t have access to the full article. But here’s another one that may be saying something similar.
That's the same study from your other thread:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10843627/journal-article-root-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-are-more-related-to-what-we-eat0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »I don’t have access to the full article. But here’s another one that may be saying something similar.
That's the same study from your other thread:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10843627/journal-article-root-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-are-more-related-to-what-we-eat
Aw kitten.
I got fooled by the fact it was repackaged and sent back to me in a new link.
Sorry.2 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »I don’t have access to the full article. But here’s another one that may be saying something similar.
That's the same study from your other thread:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10843627/journal-article-root-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-are-more-related-to-what-we-eat
Aw kitten.
I got fooled by the fact it was repackaged and sent back to me in a new link.
Sorry.
Np. I was confused because I thought that was the thread I was on
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kshama2001 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »I don’t have access to the full article. But here’s another one that may be saying something similar.
That's the same study from your other thread:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10843627/journal-article-root-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-are-more-related-to-what-we-eat
Aw kitten.
I got fooled by the fact it was repackaged and sent back to me in a new link.
Sorry.
Np. I was confused because I thought that was the thread I was on
I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a few studies on this. And that the science may or may not be completely settled. (yes, CICO, don’t @ me LOL) but in any case I do enjoy hearing the discussion and viewpoints of the longer term forum members on this issue. And I think I’ll try to remember to post them in this one spot when I run into one.
Or if I forget, maybe the other discussion.
Point being: I won’t start another discussion. I think keeping the info mostly in one or two discussions would be best in the long run.1
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