How much protein as I exercise through a weight loss ?

russellholtslander1 · September 2021

Did you try the 1740 calories @ 87 grams? Or are you eating the 1985 calories @ 106 grams of protein.

I would pick one of these, and maybe the extra cals and protein works for you. I don't know if you are actually burning 900 calories, or how big you are, but 2612 calories sounds like a lot.. I'm 261 lbs., and I eat 1900-2300, but admittedly I am not burning 900 calories at any workout.

One thing that concerns me, is that your protein, which you feel you need to build muscle, only went up 25 grams or 100 calories, but your overall calorie needs went up 627 calories. You had a 50% increase in carbs, which build no muscle. This may be due to the cardio, and they think you need a lot of carbs for energy, but what the recommend is you add LOTS of carbs, and only a little protein.

Personally, I think you should try the 1985 numbers.. good fiber out of the carbs you do eat, so probably healthy carbs, decent protein, less sugar, and a bit more fat.

Do you think you could eat 2,612 calories? I can't do that.

There are many factors, and the info you get back, depends on the info you put into calculators. How many calories you actually burn.. I had a lot of 1 hour workouts when i was younger, but if you keep the pace up, I would never spend more than 20-30 minutes on weights, and I'd do cardio outdoors.. my point is maybe whatever is saying you burn 900 calories is using your input, and making false assumptions, based on a whole hour, when you may be more of a social lifter. The number MFP gives you are based on whatever you told them you wanted, but are you really sure that you got all the complicated variations right. Metabolism, body fat, weight, height, are all things which cause a different output. Many calculators, simply aren't able to give you results which work for you. Which may be why you think the results of what you are supposed to be eating do not match your stated goals.

DO you really think 133 more grams of carbs is what will help you add a few lbs. of lean body mass?

What you got is a suggestion.. you start at 87, and end up adding 44 grams of protein, and a bunch of carbs.

I would suggest just upping the protein a little, and see the results, and then adding a bit more, until you think you are making muscle gains at a pace you want. That will add some calories, but use the scale to judge how many calories to add. If you are losing, then maybe add more fat, or healthy carbs, but slowly, until you are getting the results you want.

Lastly, 2 hour workouts a day? A muscle grows at rest, and it appears you are working out with no rest days.. I understand stretching and cardio daily, but maybe cut weightlifting down to 3-4 a week??

Good Luck.

AnnPT77 · September 2021

W_Stewart wrote: »

Thanks for all the input. I'm feeling like sticking closer to RDA recommended nutrition levels should provide what I need. But here is one aspect of it that continues to confuse me.

So conceptually I'm in the camp of eating back my logged calories, but I can't help but notice how much increased protein that equates to. My daily pre-exercise goals show 87 grams of protein which seems about right if you average out all the feedback you can research.

But then when I add in my morning workout (strength training + cardio) and then some other exercise like a hike or mountain bike ride MFP increases my daily calories, thereby increasing my protein to 131.

So on one hand I know those increased calories have to come from somewhere, but that level of protein sounds high according to many of the recommendations I've read. Not dangerous or anything, but recommendations I've read suggest someone my age and strength training goals (just toning, not bulking up like a weighlifter) only needs in the 70's to 80's.

So if I don't need that much protein...what am I to think about the idea of eating my exercise calories?

Once you have a solid gram goal for protein, one that takes into account the fact that you're working to lose weight, improve fitness and increase strength (i.e., more like Examine.com recommended, less like the RDA minimum for average people), you can stop eating protein when you reach around that many grams.

As you say, the extra calories added for exercise need to get added to some macro, when macros are allocated by percent. That doesn't mean you need to eat the extra protein. It's one of the pitfalls in percentage-based macro allocation.

Conceptually, I think of my protein and fat targets as a minimum number of grams, make it a point to eat that many, and if I still have calories left, I spend them on whatever macros I feel like eating (including the occasional alcohol in my case, which has 7 calories per gram but isn't protein, fat, or carbohydrate). (I don't have a carb target I'm committed to; I don't care how many carbs I eat, I care about calories, protein, fat, getting 5+ and ideally 10+ veggie/fruit servings, and some other small stuff.)

If it really bugs you not to have all your MFP numbers come out green (or whatever the attaboy coloring is these days), then you might consider paying for premium MFP, where you can set the goals in grams, and tell the app separately how to allocate the exercise calories.

If your exercise calories are accurately estimated, you should eat them. Your calorie deficit is already built into MFP's base calorie goal. If you'd be losing weight on X calories without exercise, then you do 500 calories of exercise and eat those 500 calories, you'd still expect to lose weight at the same rate, you're just fueling the exercise sensibly.

How did you estimate your exercise? Different methods tend to come a bit closer for different activities. A heart rate monitor, for example, tends to be pretty terrible at estimating strength training or high intensity intervals. MFP database estimate for strength training is reasonable, but the indoor/outdoor bike estimates are questionable, and there are better sources for walking estimates.

800+ exercise calories in a day is fairly high, but it's possible - sounds like you're pretty active.

kshama2001 · September 2021

W_Stewart wrote: »

Thanks for all the input. I'm feeling like sticking closer to RDA recommended nutrition levels should provide what I need. But here is one aspect of it that continues to confuse me.

So conceptually I'm in the camp of eating back my logged calories, but I can't help but notice how much increased protein that equates to. My daily pre-exercise goals show 87 grams of protein which seems about right if you average out all the feedback you can research.

But then when I add in my morning workout (strength training + cardio) and then some other exercise like a hike or mountain bike ride MFP increases my daily calories, thereby increasing my protein to 131.

So on one hand I know those increased calories have to come from somewhere, but that level of protein sounds high according to many of the recommendations I've read. Not dangerous or anything, but recommendations I've read suggest someone my age and strength training goals (just toning, not bulking up like a weighlifter) only needs in the 70's to 80's.

So if I don't need that much protein...what am I to think about the idea of eating my exercise calories?

Let's leave aside the issue of exercise calories for now. (Short answer: yes, you should eat them back, assuming that 900 calorie burn is accurate.)

I don't see 131 g protein as high on a day you, a man who is trying to lose weight, was very active.

I'd like to see the source that gave you a protein goal of 70-80 g per day.

AnnPT77 · September 2021

russellholtslander1 wrote: »

Did you try the 1740 calories @ 87 grams? Or are you eating the 1985 calories @ 106 grams of protein.

I would pick one of these, and maybe the extra cals and protein works for you. I don't know if you are actually burning 900 calories, or how big you are, but 2612 calories sounds like a lot.. I'm 261 lbs., and I eat 1900-2300, but admittedly I am not burning 900 calories at any workout.

One thing that concerns me, is that your protein, which you feel you need to build muscle, only went up 25 grams or 100 calories, but your overall calorie needs went up 627 calories. You had a 50% increase in carbs, which build no muscle. This may be due to the cardio, and they think you need a lot of carbs for energy, but what the recommend is you add LOTS of carbs, and only a little protein.

Carbs are protein-sparing, so a useful complement to protein when strength training. Also, some people find that carbohydrates improve their strength workout performance, so there's strength benefit in that way.

Personally, I think you should try the 1985 numbers.. good fiber out of the carbs you do eat, so probably healthy carbs, decent protein, less sugar, and a bit more fat.

Do you think you could eat 2,612 calories? I can't do that.

I can (need to), and I'm 5'5", 125 pounds, female, age 65. I ate 2529 calories yesterday, which was within my calorie goal (for maintenance, not loss). That's not every day, but it's not unusual on higher-exercise days. (No, not fast food, junk food, etc.: Veggies, fruits, whole grains, seeds, nuts, yogurt, and things like that, mostly.) Lots of people eat that many calories, and need to. Many of the guys around here routinely eat 2500 calories and over, as do a few other women, and some of those are still in a weight-loss phase.

Looking at OP's food log, he's eating pretty sensible things. Overall, it's not how I'd prefer to eat, but everyone's got different taste-preferences.

There are many factors, and the info you get back, depends on the info you put into calculators. How many calories you actually burn.. I had a lot of 1 hour workouts when i was younger, but if you keep the pace up, I would never spend more than 20-30 minutes on weights, and I'd do cardio outdoors.. my point is maybe whatever is saying you burn 900 calories is using your input, and making false assumptions, based on a whole hour, when you may be more of a social lifter. The number MFP gives you are based on whatever you told them you wanted, but are you really sure that you got all the complicated variations right. Metabolism, body fat, weight, height, are all things which cause a different output. Many calculators, simply aren't able to give you results which work for you. Which may be why you think the results of what you are supposed to be eating do not match your stated goals.

It's unclear to me what you're trying to say in the bolded?

On one of OP's 800+ calorie days, he did some walking, some biking, and 45 minutes of strength training, adding up to a bit over 2 hours. The estimates may or may not be spot-on, but 400-450 workout calories on average per hour isn't an insanely high estimate for a big guy.

It takes me around 40 minutes to run through a full strength workout super-set style in my very own home with minimal breaks. What I do is idiosyncratic: There are more time-efficient programs out there using a more minimal set of compound exercises that might run 20-30 minutes, but 45 minutes for strength isn't too odd even when not "social lifting" (whatever that is). He's not claiming 900 calories for an hour of lifting!

DO you really think 133 more grams of carbs is what will help you add a few lbs. of lean body mass?

What you got is a suggestion.. you start at 87, and end up adding 44 grams of protein, and a bunch of carbs.

I would suggest just upping the protein a little, and see the results, and then adding a bit more, until you think you are making muscle gains at a pace you want. That will add some calories, but use the scale to judge how many calories to add. If you are losing, then maybe add more fat, or healthy carbs, but slowly, until you are getting the results you want.

Strength gains can be pretty fast at first, but muscle mass gains are always pretty slow, even at their fastest. Inching up protein while watching strength/muscle-mass results would be a super-slow experiment (plus maybe misleading, on the strength dimension), plus it's difficult to measure muscle mass (let alone see it visually), especially over any reasonably short time period (less than multiple months) and if there's still a meaningful fat layer hiding muscle definition.

Why would OP not just use the protein numbers that have been found to be useful via sound research?

Lastly, 2 hour workouts a day? A muscle grows at rest, and it appears you are working out with no rest days.. I understand stretching and cardio daily, but maybe cut weightlifting down to 3-4 a week??

Good Luck.

What is it lately, with people here on MFP thinking 2 hours of workouts daily is a scary big lot? Yes, beginners should ramp up gradually, not go from zero to 2 hours instantly. At a very general level of advice, yes, strength training the same muscle groups typically benefits from a recovery day between workouts, but there are well-designed programs that vary the workouts so different muscle groups get attention on different days. It's unclear what OP's doing in that regard.

Working out for 2 hours a day isn't necessarily a problem, given a reasonable level of base fitness to support it; and the ability to maintain good overall life balance while doing it (i.e., have enough time/energy for work, family, social life, etc.). Somehow, people spending two hours a day watching TV isn't commonly seen as an obsession, but 2 hours of being active is? Jeesh.

OP: Is this level of exercise something you enjoy, and could visualize including in your life long term? Does it leave you feeling energized for the rest of your day, not fatigued or depleted? Does it let you have good life balance in other respects? If "yes" to all of those, it's fine. If "no" to any of them, I'd suggest giving it a bit of a think, about whether it's a good strategy for you.

W_Stewart · October 2021

I have spread my workouts across different muscle groups on a 3- day rotation. It still takes me 1.5 hours:

10 minute warmup
15 minute cardio (usually stationary bike)
45 minutes completing multiple sets of 6 to 7 activities using machines or free weights
15 minutes cardio (usually treadmill)
10 minutes stretching/cooldown

I enjoy the time spent at the gym and enjoy the added structure of getting up early and starting my day off right. I'm not killing myself in the gym either, going slow and slowly increasing weight across weeks.

How much protein as I exercise through a weight loss ?

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