Anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
Speakeasy76
Posts: 961 Member
My kids and I went to one of the large "agritainment" farms where they had a huge apple orchard and we picked our own apples. The apples were expensive, but I forgot how much better fresh, local apples taste than store-bought. Anyway, we "had" to buy the apple cider donuts. I don't care much for them anyway, but had one yesterday morning mainly to see if they were actually any better than store bought (spoiler alert: they weren't).
I was surprised that not only did I really not care for them, I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins I had made earlier in the week, or even one of the apples. Then, the rest of the day yesterday I just seemed to be craving food, having that "unsatisfied" feeling of like I wasn't really hungry but "needed" more to eat. I don't eat a lot of high sugar, refined flour treats like this anymore, and when I do I can really tell the difference in how my body responds. I mean, I'll still eat them if I really want it, but I almost always feel worse physically afterwards.
I was surprised that not only did I really not care for them, I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins I had made earlier in the week, or even one of the apples. Then, the rest of the day yesterday I just seemed to be craving food, having that "unsatisfied" feeling of like I wasn't really hungry but "needed" more to eat. I don't eat a lot of high sugar, refined flour treats like this anymore, and when I do I can really tell the difference in how my body responds. I mean, I'll still eat them if I really want it, but I almost always feel worse physically afterwards.
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Yes.
I went "cold turkey" on sugar some while back and cut it out from everywhere I possibly could. I now find that many things I used to think of as treats are not any more. I am quite capable of ordering a dessert, taking a mouthful or two and leaving the rest because it simply isn't worth the calories and in some cases is positively unpleasant to eat.
I also get those cravings after eating sugary/refined food, but not after eating a full portion or even eating a dessert a couple of days running. However, if I am on a holiday such as a cruise where afternoon tea is on offer every day I have to be very careful. If I start eating that stuff regularly then the cravings for junk come back and I feel a bit grotty and have to go cold turkey to sort myself out again.4 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »My kids and I went to one of the large "agritainment" farms where they had a huge apple orchard and we picked our own apples. The apples were expensive, but I forgot how much better fresh, local apples taste than store-bought. Anyway, we "had" to buy the apple cider donuts. I don't care much for them anyway, but had one yesterday morning mainly to see if they were actually any better than store bought (spoiler alert: they weren't).
I was surprised that not only did I really not care for them, I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins I had made earlier in the week, or even one of the apples. Then, the rest of the day yesterday I just seemed to be craving food, having that "unsatisfied" feeling of like I wasn't really hungry but "needed" more to eat. I don't eat a lot of high sugar, refined flour treats like this anymore, and when I do I can really tell the difference in how my body responds. I mean, I'll still eat them if I really want it, but I almost always feel worse physically afterwards.
Oh, yes, I've felt this way. I don't understand how people can have donuts as breakfast.
I made some applesauce muffins recently and will be making apple muffins in the near future. I'll eat them at night, after dinner.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »My kids and I went to one of the large "agritainment" farms where they had a huge apple orchard and we picked our own apples. The apples were expensive, but I forgot how much better fresh, local apples taste than store-bought. Anyway, we "had" to buy the apple cider donuts. I don't care much for them anyway, but had one yesterday morning mainly to see if they were actually any better than store bought (spoiler alert: they weren't).
I was surprised that not only did I really not care for them, I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins I had made earlier in the week, or even one of the apples. Then, the rest of the day yesterday I just seemed to be craving food, having that "unsatisfied" feeling of like I wasn't really hungry but "needed" more to eat. I don't eat a lot of high sugar, refined flour treats like this anymore, and when I do I can really tell the difference in how my body responds. I mean, I'll still eat them if I really want it, but I almost always feel worse physically afterwards.
Oh, yes, I've felt this way. I don't understand how people can have donuts as breakfast.
I made some applesauce muffins recently and will be making apple muffins in the near future. I'll eat them at night, after dinner.
My son said after he ate one that he still felt hungry, and I totally understood. I even ate mine with plain greek yogurt with fresh fruit, and while it helped, I felt hungry less than 3 hours later.1 -
This is exactly why I don't eat breakfast. When I eat before noon, it seems to flip a switch in me that just makes me hungrier and wanting to eat all the things. Highly processed foods also leave me just craving more, so I save my chips and sweets for the evenings, which really seems to help me moderate. I realize this isn't true for a lot of people, but it is definitely what happens to me.8
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I think a lot of this is a combination of conscious and sub-conscious confirmation bias that we all have as a desire for our chosen choices and actions to be right. Yes, a cider donut doesn't have a high satiety index and isn't going to fill you up. But eating one (or something similar) while otherwise consuming your normal diet isn't going to make you extra hungry or feel physically worse, at least not in the small quantity you state. You simply actually did like the donut and would like more (it's not a crime).
That you added "I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins" is a good indicator that you're needing to reassure yourself that your healthier eating choices are better. And there's nothing wrong with that. If giving up sweets and treats were so easy, we wouldn't need to put so much effort into actively eating healthy and watching our consumption.
We all in some way play the mind games with ourselves, such as "I almost always feel worse physically afterwards" which may be true for a larger scale eating of unhealthy food that your body isn't used to, but doubtful after a small indulgence. It's a way we mentally attempt to tell ourselves not to make that choice again. If you actually did feel considerably worse, you probably would not continue to do the same again and again.5 -
@yayamom3 It's definitely not just eating breakfast that does it for me, as I eat a healthy, filling breakfast every morning. If I didn't, I would get seriously hangry and I have too much to do to feel that way. If I eat higher carb, low fat and low-mid protein I would definitely be hungry earlier than normal.0
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@johnrsinger452 Thank you for your mansplanation of my own experience and reactions to something and basically telling me it's all in my head. There's nothing I like more than people trying to tell me how I actually felt, especially a random internet stranger. Seriously, though, I found your response to be quite presumptuous.
You telling me that I "simply did like the donut and would like more" is flabbergasting to me, really. No, I actually didn't really care for the donut--why is that so hard to believe? I was disappointed after I ate it, because I would have rather have something else but wasted my calories on that. And yes, I preferred the taste of my own homemade muffin. Again, why is that so hard to believe? Do we not all have different taste preferences? I tend to make healthier, more nutritious choices than not and have for quite some time and reached my goal weight a long time ago. That doesn't mean there are certain foods that I do find quite delicious that's low in nutrition and actually might have a hard time controlling my intake of it, but this donut wasn't one of them.
Eating high sugar, high refined carb foods without sufficient protein and fiber to go along with it (and sometimes not even with that) can definitely cause a rush of energy followed by a crash afterwards in a lot of people, even if it's something "small" like a donut. I don't make the choice "again and again" to eat stuff that I feel worse after eating, either. Does it mean I completely abstain if I really want something? No, but I know I may not feel great afterwards. In the moment I decided the momentary pleasure I get from whatever it is I'm eating or drinking is worth it AND it's not like I have totally exacerbating symptoms afterwards (although sometimes it can be painful and somewhat debilitating and require medication, depending on what it was). I have food sensitivities and did an elimination diet this past spring under the guide of a registered dietician, so I have gotten very good at listening to my body and what agrees with it and what doesn't. It sometimes does not take a lot to trigger a reaction. Also regarding people in general continuing to do something despite knowing the consequences, physical or otherwise. I mean, isn't that why a lot of us are here?6 -
I fall into a 'carb cycle' really, really easily. Meaning if I eat something relatively small and with minimal protein or fat, I promptly start on an energy/crash/eat cycle.
And, yeah, also and as a separate thing if I eat breakfast something in my brain triggers and I just am starved all day. These are different responses/feel different though.
The first feels and is primarily a mental thing. I'm looking for energy, yeah, but it's a restless/unsatisfied/I want to eat thing. Starts me off grazing and just feeling kind of 'eh'.
That second thing? I AM PHYSICALLY STARVED ALL DAY even if it's a 50 grams of protein or more breakfast. I just turn into a bottomless pit. Why? No clue.0 -
johnrsinger452 wrote: »I think a lot of this is a combination of conscious and sub-conscious confirmation bias that we all have as a desire for our chosen choices and actions to be right. Yes, a cider donut doesn't have a high satiety index and isn't going to fill you up. But eating one (or something similar) while otherwise consuming your normal diet isn't going to make you extra hungry or feel physically worse, at least not in the small quantity you state. You simply actually did like the donut and would like more (it's not a crime).
That you added "I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins" is a good indicator that you're needing to reassure yourself that your healthier eating choices are better. And there's nothing wrong with that. If giving up sweets and treats were so easy, we wouldn't need to put so much effort into actively eating healthy and watching our consumption.
We all in some way play the mind games with ourselves, such as "I almost always feel worse physically afterwards" which may be true for a larger scale eating of unhealthy food that your body isn't used to, but doubtful after a small indulgence. It's a way we mentally attempt to tell ourselves not to make that choice again. If you actually did feel considerably worse, you probably would not continue to do the same again and again.
Nah.
Satiety is pretty individual, as reported by a variety of people here. What they find filling is very different from what I find filling, in many cases. Would you suggest I simply disbelieve their self-reports? (And - what - believe you instead?)
Taste-preference is also pretty individual, I believe. So many people rave about donuts, talk about how irresistably wonderful they are, so every once in a while I try one (from some place friends have raved about), thinking maybe I'm just missing something. Nope, still not very tasty. I've felt that way for a long time. I used to eat more of them, back when I'd eat things just because they were there (i.e., when I was still obese!), but I've never been delighted by one (ever), as far as I can recall. The homemade apple muffins sound better to me, too, though I don't care for most commercial muffins, either . . . but even the mediocre ones are generally better than donuts (<= my personal taste preference there, not health or nutrition advice).
You're making a lot of assumptions about other people. Maybe you play mind games with yourself, dunno . . . but I'm betting the degree to which people in general do so is another thing that's pretty individual.6 -
The empty calories in sugar are devastating to the healthy diet. You eat and don't feel satisfied, yet the sugars trigger parts of your brain that say, "hey this is good and we like this". If a person quits eating sugar for a few months then has some they can taste how gross it really is. The damn stuff should be a controlled substance.1
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Whydahdad71 wrote: »The empty calories in sugar are devastating to the healthy diet. You eat and don't feel satisfied, yet the sugars trigger parts of your brain that say, "hey this is good and we like this". If a person quits eating sugar for a few months then has some they can taste how gross it really is. The damn stuff should be a controlled substance.
Lol...no6 -
Yeaaaah, saying I get sucked into a carb cycle doesn't mean I don't eat a candy bar or (not-the-low-calorie) ice cream every. single. day.
I'm fine thanks.
My bigger 'trigger food' for overeating is peanut butter. The healthy variety that is still super high calorie but no added sugar or salt. I'll put down an entire jar in a sitting if I don't watch myself.
My bigger CARB problem is just ... bread. Toast, english muffins, bagels, etc. I don't get much satieity out of them unless I load them up with protein and fat, but I'll eat them forever and get stuck in that 'eat/crash/eat' cycle. the daily candy bar or portion of ice cream does not do that to me.
Sugar's fine. I have never ONCE wanted to go eat sugar out of the bag. Now, sugar + fat, maybe, but even then it's because it tastes good not because it hijacked my brain.1 -
Nah.
Satiety is pretty individual, as reported by a variety of people here. What they find filling is very different from what I find filling, in many cases. Would you suggest I simply disbelieve their self-reports? (And - what - believe you instead?)
Taste-preference is also pretty individual, I believe. So many people rave about donuts, talk about how irresistably wonderful they are, so every once in a while I try one (from some place friends have raved about), thinking maybe I'm just missing something. Nope, still not very tasty. I've felt that way for a long time. I used to eat more of them, back when I'd eat things just because they were there (i.e., when I was still obese!), but I've never been delighted by one (ever), as far as I can recall. The homemade apple muffins sound better to me, too, though I don't care for most commercial muffins, either . . . but even the mediocre ones are generally better than donuts (<= my personal taste preference there, not health or nutrition advice).
You're making a lot of assumptions about other people. Maybe you play mind games with yourself, dunno . . . but I'm betting the degree to which people in general do so is another thing that's pretty individual.
Based on your response I am guessing perhaps you didn’t really take the time to read and try to understand the concept I was presenting, since you are disagreeing with points I did not make. The OP referenced donuts specifically so I used that example. I, in no way said that donuts or sugar are everyone’s treat food, that everyone has the same satiety from every food, or that the magnitude of this response is equal by all. It seems you scanned (not read) what I wrote and made your own two major false assumptions: that I was stating satiety for individual foods is the same for everyone and that I stated taste preference was the same for everyone, neither of which I said.
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johnrsinger452 wrote: »I think a lot of this is a combination of conscious and sub-conscious confirmation bias that we all have as a desire for our chosen choices and actions to be right. Yes, a cider donut doesn't have a high satiety index and isn't going to fill you up. But eating one (or something similar) while otherwise consuming your normal diet isn't going to make you extra hungry or feel physically worse, at least not in the small quantity you state. You simply actually did like the donut and would like more (it's not a crime).
That you added "I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins" is a good indicator that you're needing to reassure yourself that your healthier eating choices are better. And there's nothing wrong with that. If giving up sweets and treats were so easy, we wouldn't need to put so much effort into actively eating healthy and watching our consumption.
We all in some way play the mind games with ourselves, such as "I almost always feel worse physically afterwards" which may be true for a larger scale eating of unhealthy food that your body isn't used to, but doubtful after a small indulgence. It's a way we mentally attempt to tell ourselves not to make that choice again. If you actually did feel considerably worse, you probably would not continue to do the same again and again.
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johnrsinger452 wrote: »
Nah.
Satiety is pretty individual, as reported by a variety of people here. What they find filling is very different from what I find filling, in many cases. Would you suggest I simply disbelieve their self-reports? (And - what - believe you instead?)
Taste-preference is also pretty individual, I believe. So many people rave about donuts, talk about how irresistably wonderful they are, so every once in a while I try one (from some place friends have raved about), thinking maybe I'm just missing something. Nope, still not very tasty. I've felt that way for a long time. I used to eat more of them, back when I'd eat things just because they were there (i.e., when I was still obese!), but I've never been delighted by one (ever), as far as I can recall. The homemade apple muffins sound better to me, too, though I don't care for most commercial muffins, either . . . but even the mediocre ones are generally better than donuts (<= my personal taste preference there, not health or nutrition advice).
You're making a lot of assumptions about other people. Maybe you play mind games with yourself, dunno . . . but I'm betting the degree to which people in general do so is another thing that's pretty individual.
Based on your response I am guessing perhaps you didn’t really take the time to read and try to understand the concept I was presenting, since you are disagreeing with points I did not make. The OP referenced donuts specifically so I used that example. I, in no way said that donuts or sugar are everyone’s treat food, that everyone has the same satiety from every food, or that the magnitude of this response is equal by all. It seems you scanned (not read) what I wrote and made your own two major false assumptions: that I was stating satiety for individual foods is the same for everyone and that I stated taste preference was the same for everyone, neither of which I said.
I don't know, you specifically said that I "actually wanted more of the donut" and was trying to without knowing anything about my own taste and texture preferences. You then added that by me saying I would have rather had my homemade healthier apple muffin was somehow my way of convincing myself to keep choosing the healthier option. I'm pretty sure you were in fact making assumptions about me.3 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »johnrsinger452 wrote: »
Nah.
Satiety is pretty individual, as reported by a variety of people here. What they find filling is very different from what I find filling, in many cases. Would you suggest I simply disbelieve their self-reports? (And - what - believe you instead?)
Taste-preference is also pretty individual, I believe. So many people rave about donuts, talk about how irresistably wonderful they are, so every once in a while I try one (from some place friends have raved about), thinking maybe I'm just missing something. Nope, still not very tasty. I've felt that way for a long time. I used to eat more of them, back when I'd eat things just because they were there (i.e., when I was still obese!), but I've never been delighted by one (ever), as far as I can recall. The homemade apple muffins sound better to me, too, though I don't care for most commercial muffins, either . . . but even the mediocre ones are generally better than donuts (<= my personal taste preference there, not health or nutrition advice).
You're making a lot of assumptions about other people. Maybe you play mind games with yourself, dunno . . . but I'm betting the degree to which people in general do so is another thing that's pretty individual.
Based on your response I am guessing perhaps you didn’t really take the time to read and try to understand the concept I was presenting, since you are disagreeing with points I did not make. The OP referenced donuts specifically so I used that example. I, in no way said that donuts or sugar are everyone’s treat food, that everyone has the same satiety from every food, or that the magnitude of this response is equal by all. It seems you scanned (not read) what I wrote and made your own two major false assumptions: that I was stating satiety for individual foods is the same for everyone and that I stated taste preference was the same for everyone, neither of which I said.
I don't know, you specifically said that I "actually wanted more of the donut" and was trying to without knowing anything about my own taste and texture preferences. You then added that by me saying I would have rather had my homemade healthier apple muffin was somehow my way of convincing myself to keep choosing the healthier option. I'm pretty sure you were in fact making assumptions about me.
Yup, that was my take.
I may've misunderstood PP's key points, not sure. Pretty certain he misunderstood mine: When people describe their own experiences and motivations, why wouldn't we believe them . . . instead of some 3rd party with an opinion about what they *really* think, and why?
I note that PP edited down the previous comments (i.e., his) so they wouldn't be carried through in the thread, though leaving them is NBD since they get collapsed in the forum for reading purposes. I encourage interested others to read what he said, read my reply, then his response . . . decide for themselves.2 -
Not a doughnut fan, but I've noticed that eating sugary carbs begets cravings for more sugary carbs. I love my daily breakfast of homemade yogurt, chopped prunes and granola; but when I am struggling, I switch to a veg-heavy omelette and have the yogurt later in the day as a dessert.1
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I have definitely found that I do not prefer things that are overly sweet anymore. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy a good dessert and even a rich one...but I've literally ordered a regular Medium Iced Coffee from Dunkin with cream and sugar and it was so sweet that I actually just dumped it out and got another coffee somewhere else. I can't believe that that level of sweetness is considered the 'norm' when asking for sugar in a coffee.
And yes, there are certain foods that can trigger dopamine (and other neurotransmitter) responses in your brain that would lead to you wanting more. Refined sugar is one of those things.1 -
westrich20940 wrote: »I have definitely found that I do not prefer things that are overly sweet anymore. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy a good dessert and even a rich one...but I've literally ordered a regular Medium Iced Coffee from Dunkin with cream and sugar and it was so sweet that I actually just dumped it out and got another coffee somewhere else. I can't believe that that level of sweetness is considered the 'norm' when asking for sugar in a coffee.
And yes, there are certain foods that can trigger dopamine (and other neurotransmitter) responses in your brain that would lead to you wanting more. Refined sugar is one of those things.
When I do get a speciality beverage from Starbucks I ask for at least half the amount of syrup. Once on my birthday a few years ago I decided to treat myself to the regular amount of syrup in a slated caramel mocha and it was WAY too sweet. I wondered, too, how people could drink it. It's like desert in a cup.2 -
westrich20940 wrote: »I have definitely found that I do not prefer things that are overly sweet anymore. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy a good dessert and even a rich one...but I've literally ordered a regular Medium Iced Coffee from Dunkin with cream and sugar and it was so sweet that I actually just dumped it out and got another coffee somewhere else. I can't believe that that level of sweetness is considered the 'norm' when asking for sugar in a coffee.
And yes, there are certain foods that can trigger dopamine (and other neurotransmitter) responses in your brain that would lead to you wanting more. Refined sugar is one of those things.
Yes, overly sweet (IMO) "regular" coffee is the norm, here at Dunkin in MA anyway. My partner gets regular hot and iced coffee and it is way too sweet for me.
And I've heard worse about Southern iced tea.1 -
Once upon a time, I used to regularly order a large sweet tea from McD's with every order. One time, they gave me unsweetened tea instead. I thought, no problem, since I am on my way home, I'll just add sugar then. It was real eye opener seeing just how much sugar I had to dump in to reach the level of sweetness I had come to expect from their sweet tea.2
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Speakeasy76 wrote: »I was surprised that not only did I really not care for them, I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins I had made earlier in the week, or even one of the apples. Then, the rest of the day yesterday I just seemed to be craving food, having that "unsatisfied" feeling of like I wasn't really hungry but "needed" more to eat. I don't eat a lot of high sugar, refined flour treats like this anymore, and when I do I can really tell the difference in how my body responds. I mean, I'll still eat them if I really want it, but I almost always feel worse physically afterwards.
Insulin response?
Eating highly processed and sweetened foods can cause blood sugar to spike for me, this usually leads to always being hungry and overeating the same foods that initially caused the problem. I've also got some gluten sensitivities that make my physically unwell and mentally sluggish but that doesn't typically manifest into overeating.
There is a "bliss point" when the right combination of salt, sugar, and fat are mixed into foods that can stimulate your body to crave them more even when you might not normally like that food. Fast food and processed food manufacturers have this down to a science but even homemade items can hit those triggers.
I love red and/or green chile breakfast burritos but the flour tortilla and other heavy carb load ingredients cause issues for me so I just refrain or make myself a lower carb green/red chile omelet. I can still enjoy the omelet and chile without the mental fog and heartburn plus I don't crave burritos all day.
If you physically feel bad after eating something then listen to what your body is telling you.
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johnrsinger452 wrote: »I think a lot of this is a combination of conscious and sub-conscious confirmation bias that we all have as a desire for our chosen choices and actions to be right. Yes, a cider donut doesn't have a high satiety index and isn't going to fill you up. But eating one (or something similar) while otherwise consuming your normal diet isn't going to make you extra hungry or feel physically worse, at least not in the small quantity you state. You simply actually did like the donut and would like more (it's not a crime).
That you added "I actually would have rather had my homemade healthy apple muffins" is a good indicator that you're needing to reassure yourself that your healthier eating choices are better. And there's nothing wrong with that. If giving up sweets and treats were so easy, we wouldn't need to put so much effort into actively eating healthy and watching our consumption.
We all in some way play the mind games with ourselves, such as "I almost always feel worse physically afterwards" which may be true for a larger scale eating of unhealthy food that your body isn't used to, but doubtful after a small indulgence. It's a way we mentally attempt to tell ourselves not to make that choice again. If you actually did feel considerably worse, you probably would not continue to do the same again and again.
Actually refined carbs spike bg causing an insulin rise, and insulin causes hunger. It’s such a well known phenomenon that asylums used to punish inmates with insulin injections and not allowing them to eat afterwards.
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