How do you feel about fleece?

AnnPT77 wrote: »

I don't care much for fleece, just feels-preference, but I do own a couple or three things, some of which were gifts or hand-me-downs post weight loss.

I think I'm pretty close to penguinmama87, opinion-wise.

This whole question, for me, falls under my general guiding principle that we wealthy (in global/historical terms) people are unavoidably little bundles of moving harm to the world: Economic harm, ecological harm, harm to animals, harm to other humans elsewhere, and more. Further, as others have observed, it's often a matter of differing relative harms in different domains, or harms that even experts argue over which of multiple options is worse.

In this context, I feel all a trying-to-be-decent person can do is to minimize the harms they can, as best they understand them, starting with the ones that are easiest for them personally.

Since I don't much like fleece, I'm not buying any new fleece clothing (easy for me), will still accept gifts graciously, or maybe buy used.

How important is that new micro grid fleece in the extra-special color, to you? 😉

mtaratoot wrote: »

penguinmama87 wrote: »

mtaratoot wrote: »

The aquarium where I volunteer used to use fleece jackets as uniform pieces. I have a vest and a jacket I have worn for over eight years. A couple years ago they switched to cotton blend hoodies. Not as warm. Not warm when wet. They focus on education about the marine environment and decided to switch.

I have a few other fleece jackets. They will get worn until they wear out -- maybe longer. One of them already has some holes. I probably won't buy any more. Fleece in particular seems to shed microplastic more than other synthetic fabrics. What would be great is if we would get them out of other consumer goods where they are added intentionally.

We can point to industry as the problem. That is a bit of a cop-out. Each of us has the responsibility to do all we can to contribute. Some friends fly a lot more than I do. They justify it by saying the plane is going anyway. Well only if there are passengers. When they don't fly it's two fewer passengers. When enough people don't buy a ticket then the flight will be cancelled.

The solution to single-use bottles is to quit making them. Putting them to a second use is great; just not as good.

This is where I disagree - I think each of us has the responsibility to do what is reasonable given our position, not "all we can." That might very well be what you mean depending on how you interpret the ability. But people can reasonably disagree about the best course of action given a certain set of circumstances, and it isn't easy to look at someone else's life and accurately assess what they can or cannot do.

My faith tradition has an understanding of this called "remote material cooperation." The further you are from the decision to do the wrong thing, the less culpability you have for participating in it. There are some circumstances where cooperation in some kind of evil, even rather major ones, is just...unavoidable. How and what we consume is a big part of that in today's economy. I try very hard not to be wasteful. It suits my personal strengths. But I can't personally verify the sourcing of every fabric I bring home to make sure it was produced in a sustainable way (according to whom? reasonable folks can disagree!) or with ethical labor practices. I also don't have the time or technical skill to weave or spin my own material or even sew all my own clothes, though I can mend them. If I tried, I would literally do nothing else, and it would get in the way of my primary duties in life to my family. What I can do is buy only what my family needs (and I take a pretty severe understanding of that - see my post above), repair and care for it well, and as @cmriverside mentioned I do a lot of secondhand shopping too, which extends the life of a lot of products that would otherwise be destined for garbage even with a lot of life left in them. At the same time, I don't feel a particular responsibility to rescue every single potentially useful object from that fate, because that's not my job.

It's not a cop out. It's prioritizing. Some people will be called to take up this work to effect the systemic change needed for these things. I will commend them for it! But it's not my particular calling, and I am OK with that too.

Reckon we will disagree then. Because if you know that purchasing synthetic fleece contributes to marine pollution and, ultimately might devastate the entire food web of the ocean (small organisms eat the plastic, and it can kill them directly or they can be eaten by primary predators and on up the food chain so larger organisms have their guts filled up with non-food that they can't eliminate), then you are directly culpable. There are other options. The idea that fleece is OK because it's made from recycled bottles is greenwashing. The answer is that plastic bottles should be used way more than once and discarded. Even with recycling available, most single-use plastics end up in a landfill or incinerator. If you have no idea that synthetic fleece poses a hazard to organisms we share the planet with, you aren't as culpable. But now you know.

That said, I will continue to wear the fleece I already own, so I'm culpable too. I know that landfills, specifically the one my waste goes to, takes leachate to the wastewater treatment plant to be released eventually to the river. Putting something in the landfill isn't "away."

The good thing is that there are alternative fabrics. At some point, we may find out that they pose a risk, too.

I think there's something to your faith tradition and how far away you are from the "sin." If someone buys a synthetic fleece from a second-hand shop, that fleece already exists. Someone will wear it. On the other hand, that other person might still go buy a fleece jacket, so who even knows how far away that is. I know that there won't be any more fleece coming into my ownership.

NerdyScienceGrl wrote: »

I absolutely agree where we can, we should take care of our environment but those are my personal values. I believe we are only borrowing this world from future generations and taking care of it is important.

With the knowledge I have, I also understand that I’m a hypocrite because there is way more I could do, but I also like some of my creature comforts.

I had an environmental law professor in college that drove an old clunker and one of the other students pointed out an oil leak. With a shrug the professor said, “if this is your career choice, you need to be comfortable with your own hypocracies. I am.” Cop out? Maybe but also some of the wisest words I heard in my college career. …point, we all have our own knowledge and choices but in the end, we may not be able to do everything for any number of reasons/excuses. So, enjoy your truck and take comfort that you are doing more than some …because you can and it’s important to you. 😊

Sorry for derailing the conversation from the initial topic and questions asked!