Does keto matter?
Releven
Posts: 63 Member
Ultimately I've had some success on Keto over the past month and a half. It doesn't seem as hard as I thought, mostly because I can eat some pretty stupid things like triple burgers and bacon and it's cool because I don't have a bun. But I'm not sure if this is the formula for me.
My first question is, if I'm in a calorie deficiency (1730 calories a day, TDEE is 2375-2400) Does it matter if I'm doing keto or not?
is 20 grams of NET carbs too low and could I allow myself more carbs and still keep myself in ketosis?
Should I be doing something different? Do you have anything to suggest?
I'm still new to all this as I've only done it for a month so I'm good with simple answers and tips and everything you can throw at me, you won't offend me with any information to help. I'm down 25 and want 25 more so I'll listen to anything and everything. Reply here, pm me, whatever works!!! Thanks in advance!
My first question is, if I'm in a calorie deficiency (1730 calories a day, TDEE is 2375-2400) Does it matter if I'm doing keto or not?
is 20 grams of NET carbs too low and could I allow myself more carbs and still keep myself in ketosis?
Should I be doing something different? Do you have anything to suggest?
I'm still new to all this as I've only done it for a month so I'm good with simple answers and tips and everything you can throw at me, you won't offend me with any information to help. I'm down 25 and want 25 more so I'll listen to anything and everything. Reply here, pm me, whatever works!!! Thanks in advance!
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You don't need to do keto, just being in a calorie deficit is enough to lose weight.
BUT you also have to make sure that you feel satisfied and satiated within that calorie goal. That's where keto comes in: some people find eating low carb more satiating.
It's really personal, others need carbs (to feel satiated, or for fueling exercise) and others still find fats satiating or fiber.
Finding a way of eating that satisfies you is important. In this regard I do suggest thinking long-term: is keep something you can and want to do long-term? Temporary changes to your diet usually lead to temporary weight-loss results, so choosing a way of eating you can keep up long-term is a good idea.11 -
My SIL and her husband kind of stumbled backward into keto; she has Crohn's and he has gluten sensitivity (not intolerance/celiac disease), so a way of eating that limits exposure to all of her triggers (gluten being among them) is sort of a "dirty keto," by which I mostly mean they eat fruit. If it's working for you, and eating that way indefinitely is sustainable for you, then go for it. Ketosis is not required for weight loss, if that's your only goal. The key is to find a way of eating that you can keep doing forever. If you think about your way of eating as "a diet" that you're "on" temporarily until you hit goal, at which point you can "stop dieting" and "go back" to eating "normally," you'll see those 50 lbs again and they'll probably bring friends.8
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No not really. It helped me with satiety but low carb works as well. Most low carb studies allow for ad lib eating which is basically eating without calorie restriction vs the calorie restricted group and usually the low carb group loses similar weight or more. This is attributed to the satiety found in lower carb diets. Heath markers normally improve as you reduce refined carbs and replace them with more protein and fat generally so there is that. Personally low carb, not keto has allowed me to maintain my weight without worrying about how many calories I'm about to eat. Basically, there's no magic in keto for a dieting demographic.1
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Go_Deskercise wrote: »
So simple terms, doesn't matter, just do caloric deficit.8 -
Not really, I've never been anywhere close to being keto and pretty easily lost 40 Lbs. A lot of people get super excited when they start a keto diet or lower carbohydrate diet in general with the relatively large water drop early on. Each gram of carbohydrate comes with around 4 grams of water, so when you cut carbs, you drop a lot of water weight fairly quickly. After that there really is no difference and when carbohydrates are reintroduced, weight typically goes up, once again due to water.
One of my aunties was epileptic to the point of having to be on a keto diet for most of her life...from her early teen years until she passed away in her early fifties. Personally, it seemed like a pretty miserable way to have to eat and go through life. Lower carb I totally get, but I don't really know why anyone would want to put themselves through a strict keto diet with no other health reasons other than to lose weight.4 -
I did Keto for two years. I don’t have any health problems but I needed to come off Keto to allow my body a break from the program. However, doing that I started eating foods that I had not eaten in two years. I love Keto. I ate a lot of dairy products, seafood more so than meats such as pork chops, steaks, etc. I found a lot of recipes on YouTube. I ate frozen yogurt instead of ice cream. So Keto is enjoying foods that you cook to your liking. I stayed away from sugar, but I found the best substitute was Monkfruit [you can find it on Amazon].
I also started enjoying food such as Cauliflower, Asparagus, Avocado and many more. Keto isn’t bad for you in my humble opinion. I’m actually trying to get back on Keto. I’m using MFP app to get recipes and get started to keep track of my progress.0 -
I just wasn't sure if there was any "additional" benefit beyond the deficiency. I figured there is no point in spending extra time focusing on the elimination of a micro when I can just look at the big picture and still be fine. It obviously gives me more options in this regard when it comes to food choices if I'm not worried about a carb intake.2
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Go_Deskercise wrote: »
Love that! I remember my step mother doing the Green Bean diet in the 80's. I'm sure it worked. Who can over-eat green beans? Of course it worked.0 -
Go_Deskercise wrote: »
So simple terms, doesn't matter, just do caloric deficit.
Yup. HOW you get into that calorie deficit will depend on what makes you satisfied and gives you energy to live your life. If there are any medical issues that need to be addressed via food choices, those factor in too.
Personally, I can't eat keto. I love my veggies and starches too much. I do have to eat lower carb because of T2Dm but it is easy to reduce carbs and still eat what I like.0 -
My friend says, "You could lose weight eating Ding Dongs as long as you eat fewer calories than you burn", which makes me very happy because I love Ding Dongs. But if you want energy and all of the other health benefits eat a good balance of healthy foods, get plenty of sleep and drink lots of water... and be in a calorie deficit.3
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First, I think that while you CAN do " stupid things " like eat triple burgers, and bacon.. do you really think you will do that long term. Everyone enjoys the foods which they could never eat on a normal diet, for a little while, but Keto simply means a diet which keeps you in ketosis. You have to decide how YOU do that, and what menu will allow you to stick to Keto permanently. The diet is very low carb, moderate protein, and the rest from fats.
So why not have eggs, cooked in butter and some berries, with maybe a slice of cheese. A salad, with chicken or turkey with cheese,and tomato slices. A 6 oz. filet mignon with onions, and mushrooms on top, or fish, and asparagus?
You could try eating just regular food, which has little carbs in them. Sure, the goal is stay below whatever carbs keeps you in ketosis, and PART of the process, is figuring out what that number is.. NET or TOTAL carbs, and knowing what ketosis feels like. That way if you consume a food which kicks you out of ketosis, you know pretty quick.
Your first question? Yes.. a calorie deficit leads to weight loss.. 1730 calories, if your TDEE is2400 calories, should lead to weight loss.. but try it, and if you lose, then great, but don't just trust a TDEE calculator, or nutrition labels completely.. there is some variance, due to human error, so always look for the results you think you should have, and maybe your results are not as good, BUT, if you don't get results at all, then it isn't working.. a diet is more than simply numbers.
The question you have to ask all these people talking about a calorie deficit as if it is SO easy, and yourself, is if that is ALL there is to it, why haven't we all simply eaten 1730 calories consistently, and become healthy?
CICO works, BUT, you have to be able to stick to 1730 calories ( calories in ), or else you won't get the same results, everything else being the same as well ( calories out ). It appears that many of us don't seem to be able to do this, for some reason.
For me, it was cravings. Sure, I'd have three 600 calorie meals, with what I was told was healthy food, but at 9 p.m., I would be craving food, and not more of the " healthy " stuff.. this is so prevalent, Taco Bell calls it 4th meal.. we have a name for it, because it happens to so many. That blows our whole diet.. and even if we eat great 5 days a week, but have 2 binge meals of 2000 calories...that takes our weekly calories from 12,110 to 16,110, and the average from 1730 to 2301.. which is about your TDEE.. so no weight loss.. if you cheat more, you gain weight over time, and a decade later are up 20 lbs., while thinking .. most of the time I eat healthy!!
One of the main benefots of Keto, if you stay in ketosis, is reduced appetite.. now, people will say.. I still had cravings, but I find they are usually the people who set out with a goal of having 1 less gram of carbs, than they could consume, and STAY in ketosis.. but it's not that simple.. nutrition labels round off, and people get kicked OUT of ketosis when they try to hit their max amount. That's if they even got into ketosis, because they read something like they could eat 30 grams of carbs and be in ketosis. maybe they can't. We all vary. I find most people are in ketosis, if they stay under 20 TOTAL carbs, but some people CAN have more, but some people need LESS. Keto is not simply following numbers. You may need to stay at 15 grams a day, or 25 grams.. only trial and error will let you know, and one sign is cravings.
To answer your second question.. NO carb minimum is TOO low.. you don't need ANY carbs to survive. You probably want some carbs, and if you want to stay in ketosis, you can have some, but your FAR more likely to eat too MANY carbs, and get kicked out of ketosis. You should worry about THAT, if you plan on sticking on ketosis, and getting the full benefit.
ALL that being said.. 25 lbs. in a month and a half is excellent.. so why not just keep doing Keto.. even if you continue eating burgers and bacon.. 3 months isn't going to be a problem.. or 4-5, as weight loss slows.
The real question you should be asking yourself, is if you like the diet. If you don't, and switching to just regular food isn't the answer.. you simply want more carbs.. then while I might ask why, the answer is you won't stick to it for much longer.. not if the idea of switching is already in your mind. I don't have any other diet I know of which drops 25 lbs. in 45 days.. maybe someone else can suggest something with those results, to transition to, but you should be looking for a diet you can just make part of your life.. if Keto, in any form, isn't that diet, then you should, and will do something else.. we simply don't do things we dislike for long. right?
I like eating 5 Total carbs a day, most eggs and cheese, no fruit & veggies, so I am biased, because it is working for me.. I've lost 29 lbs., in 35 days, although I have a lot more to lose than 25 more lbs.. BUT, this diet is not for everyone.
So lastly, I would also say that you might be able to lose weight on low carb, at a higher rate.. it really comes down to what level you can eat, and not have cravings, and easily maintain the proper number of calories. It may not be Keto, but it could be lower carb.. maybe even include legumes, more fruit, and veggies, lots of leafy green, buts, cheeses, wine at times.. even Atkins had a carb ladder, so when people hit goal, and simply wanted to maintain, they could UP carbs slowly.. to maybe 50 or 75 grams a day.. paying attention to WHAt carbs you eat.. potatoes, grains, noodles, bread etc., may not be part of what you can eat, and maintain, but that still leaves 80% of the foods out there.. look at Tom Brady.. sure he doesn't eat bread, but he eats quite a few carbs, and he is healthy.
Keto is simply so low in carbs, it makes it easy.. for those who aim to get carbs as low as possible, they aren't playing with the line of max carbs to get into ketosis, so people like me, simply eat 5 grams a day, enjoy some aged cheese, and 3-4 eggs a day.. it's easy to stay in KETOSIS that way, BUT, you DO NOT need to be in ketosis, to lose weight and be healthy. Some people eat junk, and can stay at their 1730 calories.. others can do moderate carb.
So understand Keto, and how strict it is, and if you plan to keep on it, even just until you lose another 25 lbs., stop thinking of it as a cool way to eat burger and bacon, or aim at the max carb amount. Just eat good food, and maybe aim for 15 grams a day, so if you decide to have 2 ozs. of cheese or a handful of olives as a late snack.. you still stay below 20 grams.. BUT, before you work on what KETO is, and how you should do it.. decide if you even NEED to be on KETO.
Keto makes being in ketosis easy, but staying on Keto isn't for many people.. the best diet is useless, if you don't stick to it. So basically ask yourself if you could do this for the next few years, and enjoy it?? .. if not, maybe try upping carbs, expanding carb foods you eat, and see if you continue losing, just a bit slower, have no cravings, and enjoy your new diet much MORE.
Do what works.. you know unlimited carbs does not, and what you are currently doing DOES.. incredibly well, based on results.. BUT, there is a LOT of choices between those 2 extremes. Maybe trade slower weight loss, for a more enjoyable diet, with a few more healthy carbs?? Trust me, if I could eat kidney beans, onions, and mushrooms, with my ground beef, without cravings, and still lose weight, I would.. lots of carbs are tasty.. but I can't.. you may be able to though.. experiment a bit. Add carbs back in slowly, as long as you continue getting the results you have on keto. You may be surprised at how high in carbs you can go, and which carbs you can eat, not allowed on stricter LC diets, but OK for you.
If you start eating a food, say you decide you might try bananas, or LC bread.. trying to push it a bit, and start having cravings, overeat, and start gaining weight.. just cross that ffod off your food list, drop down 10 grams a day on carbs, until you are losing again, and then go back to trying other carbs.
Good Luck, I hope you figure out what works for you, and you enjoy whatever you do, and the food, so becoming healthy is easy, because that way, you stick with it, and stay healthy, which is really the goal.. not being on THIS or THAT diet.1 -
If there’s one thing I’ve learned through my multiple weight loss journeys, it’s find something sustainable. If you want to keep the weight off, it has to be a lifestyle change. I’ve done very low calorie (1000-1200 plus intense workouts on top, so net cals were 300-500 range) lost a lot of weight, it wasn’t sustainable and I slowly put the weight back on when I stopped. I then did keto in the summer of 2017 (no workouts), lost 25 lbs in 7 weeks, went back to eating carbs and gained 40lbs by that Christmas 😱. This time I am not severely restricting myself or eliminating any food group, I do low impact exercise daily, I add in a 3-5 days of high intensity exercise and count my calories (I aim for 1400-2000 net) I am down 25lbs in 6 months, much slower than I am used to, but its a lifestyle that works for me.
As long as you choose something that works for you long term. If you are a carb lover and are only doing keto to lose the weight but know you’ll go back to regularly eating higher carbs, you may want to be careful (in my experience), but if you don’t care for them and can do without, keto is a great option.
Best of luck!4 -
Sory, but
Go_Deskercise is not right. KETO diet is different. it does not work for caloric deficit. You, actually, can overeat your daily allotment. Keto acts on hormonal level. Keto diet keeps your insulin hormone level at minimum, and by doing it allows you to loose weight, to decrease blood pressure, to feel mental clearety, to release Human Growth Hormone, to activate sertuins (hormones of longevity), to stimulate mTor and MPK, activate ketones, special bodies of fragments of fats which caries information to body tissue to rebuild, to survive and live longer healthies life.
As you see, that processes are much more complex than simple CICO. Many people refuse accept the truth. They told that its too complicated. Off cause, the CICO much easier to understand, but it does not mean it is correct. Keto is not a simple caloric deficit, it is a whole much more than that. If you enter KETOsis even sometimes for short periods of time , say 2,3,4 days you already doing eccellent job for your body, for your health and longevity.
The main thing to shift back and forse from keto to carbs. The goal is flexibility of the body to shift from fat burning to carbs burning0 -
I am doing keto mainly to control blood sugar, type 2 diabetic. You just need to be in a deficit to lose weight. I check my ketones with a meter, which is not necessary, but I can go over 20 g carbs, I try to stay under 30g, it varies by individual.that bacon cheese burger is sounding good.1
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Sory, but
Go_Deskercise is not right. KETO diet is different. it does not work for caloric deficit. You, actually, can overeat your daily allotment.
Of course you can. You can overeat your "daily allotment" on any diet.
Keto acts on hormonal level. Keto diet keeps your insulin hormone level at minimum, and by doing it allows you to loose weight, to decrease blood pressure, to feel mental clearety, to release Human Growth Hormone, to activate sertuins (hormones of longevity), to stimulate mTor and MPK, activate ketones, special bodies of fragments of fats which caries information to body tissue to rebuild, to survive and live longer healthies life.
What do these terms mean? Honest question, I don't understand these.
As you see, that processes are much more complex than simple CICO. Many people refuse accept the truth. They told that its too complicated. Off cause, the CICO much easier to understand, but it does not mean it is correct. Keto is not a simple caloric deficit, it is a whole much more than that. If you enter KETOsis even sometimes for short periods of time , say 2,3,4 days you already doing eccellent job for your body, for your health and longevity.
The main thing to shift back and forse from keto to carbs. The goal is flexibility of the body to shift from fat burning to carbs burning
Again, what does that mean? I'd like to understand, but I'm not following this.0 -
Sory, but
Go_Deskercise is not right. KETO diet is different. it does not work for caloric deficit. You, actually, can overeat your daily allotment.
Of course you can. You can overeat your "daily allotment" on any diet.
Keto acts on hormonal level. Keto diet keeps your insulin hormone level at minimum, and by doing it allows you to loose weight, to decrease blood pressure, to feel mental clearety, to release Human Growth Hormone, to activate sertuins (hormones of longevity), to stimulate mTor and MPK, activate ketones, special bodies of fragments of fats which caries information to body tissue to rebuild[/b], to survive and live longer healthies life.
What do these terms mean? Honest question, I don't understand these.
As you see, that processes are much more complex than simple CICO. Many people refuse accept the truth. They told that its too complicated. Off cause, the CICO much easier to understand, but it does not mean it is correct. Keto is not a simple caloric deficit, it is a whole much more than that. If you enter KETOsis even sometimes for short periods of time , say 2,3,4 days you already doing eccellent job for your body, for your health and longevity.
The main thing to shift back and forse from keto to carbs. The goal is flexibility of the body to shift from fat burning to carbs burning
Again, what does that mean? I'd like to understand, but I'm not following this.
You’re not following it because it makes zero sense.
Calorie deficit is what causes someone to lose weight. Controlling carbs is important for diabetic management. But you don’t need to do keto, even if you are diabetic.
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »Sory, but
Go_Deskercise is not right. KETO diet is different. it does not work for caloric deficit. You, actually, can overeat your daily allotment.
Of course you can. You can overeat your "daily allotment" on any diet.
Keto acts on hormonal level. Keto diet keeps your insulin hormone level at minimum, and by doing it allows you to loose weight, to decrease blood pressure, to feel mental clearety, to release Human Growth Hormone, to activate sertuins (hormones of longevity), to stimulate mTor and MPK, activate ketones, special bodies of fragments of fats which caries information to body tissue to rebuild[/b], to survive and live longer healthies life.
What do these terms mean? Honest question, I don't understand these.
As you see, that processes are much more complex than simple CICO. Many people refuse accept the truth. They told that its too complicated. Off cause, the CICO much easier to understand, but it does not mean it is correct. Keto is not a simple caloric deficit, it is a whole much more than that. If you enter KETOsis even sometimes for short periods of time , say 2,3,4 days you already doing eccellent job for your body, for your health and longevity.
The main thing to shift back and forse from keto to carbs. The goal is flexibility of the body to shift from fat burning to carbs burning
Again, what does that mean? I'd like to understand, but I'm not following this.
You’re not following it because it makes zero sense.
Calorie deficit is what causes someone to lose weight. Controlling carbs is important for diabetic management. But you don’t need to do keto, even if you are diabetic.
I want to emphasize this. There is so much flexibility in what "controlling carbs" means and it is very individual. Some just need to reduce their carbs a little, some a lot (where keto would be an advantage). Most are somewhere in between.5 -
Sory, but
Go_Deskercise is not right. KETO diet is different. it does not work for caloric deficit. You, actually, can overeat your daily allotment. Keto acts on hormonal level. Keto diet keeps your insulin hormone level at minimum, and by doing it allows you to loose weight, to decrease blood pressure, to feel mental clearety, to release Human Growth Hormone, to activate sertuins (hormones of longevity), to stimulate mTor and MPK, activate ketones, special bodies of fragments of fats which caries information to body tissue to rebuild, to survive and live longer healthies life.
As you see, that processes are much more complex than simple CICO. Many people refuse accept the truth. They told that its too complicated. Off cause, the CICO much easier to understand, but it does not mean it is correct. Keto is not a simple caloric deficit, it is a whole much more than that. If you enter KETOsis even sometimes for short periods of time , say 2,3,4 days you already doing eccellent job for your body, for your health and longevity.
The main thing to shift back and forse from keto to carbs. The goal is flexibility of the body to shift from fat burning to carbs burning
What? Where are you getting this information? Ketosis is a process driving ketone production from severe carb restriction. It doesn't deny CICO as demonstrates by multiple metabolic ward studies.
And out of curiosity, what do you think GH does?
OP, as a person who has done and regularly cycles keto diets, there is nothing special about a ketogenic diet. In my experience, it often does suppress appetite for a good amount of people, but even with that, you can easily gain or maintain weight on Keto, especially if you just slap a ton of butter on everything or eat nothing but fatty cuts of meat.
Does it improve mental clarity? For me it didn't, even when i was strict for 6 months. I tend to see those who claim increased cognitive function generally from those with metabolic disorders or coming off horrible diets.
Does Keto increase longevity? I haven't seen much data supporting this, and given the data on the blue zones, its hard to suggest a diet low in fiber increasing longevity.9 -
I don't adhere or promote a keto diet, just low carb but always interested in all dietary nutrition on all fronts.
https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article/184/9-10/e538/5382216?login=true0 -
Again, what does that mean? I'd like to understand, but I'm not following this.
She seems to think you cannot burn fat unless you eat keto or won't be able to easily switch from burning fat to burning carbs (sugar). That is, of course, entirely untrue.6 -
Okay, a few clarifications.
No matter what, weight loss is always CICO.
HOWEVER, the CO part of the equation is what can be modulated by what you eat.
So for example. If I eat 1700 calories of donuts every day I am going to lose less weight than if I eat 1700 calories of nutrient dense food that allows my body to enter ketosis.
Why? Because the nutrient dense foods and the ketosis will give me a ton of energy (ketones make me hyper) and give me zero cravings, and the donut-only diet will make me lethargic and obsessively craving more sugar and fat. The more energy a diet helps you expend, the higher the CO part of the equation.
These apps don't have an accurate way to evaluate the calories you actually burn in a day, so that's why people think CICO means that eating the same amount of calories will produce the same results no matter what those calories are.
Not true.
What CICO really means is that no matter what you eat, if you produce the same deficit at the end of the day, you will get the same amount of weight loss.
Okay cool.
So what does that mean for Ketosis?
Well, that depends on how ketosis affects you. I don't eat keto, but I do 18:6 IF, which means I spend a lot of time in ketosis, and wowza, my energy is much higher and my appetite during my fading window is non existent.
So the benefit for me of ketosis isn't some magical fat-burning chemistry that seems to defy physics. It's pretty simple, it raises my CO by giving me way more energy, and it keeps my CI low by essentially eliminating cravings.
If keto doesn't have these benefits for you personally, then maybe consider something else.
The key, as someone else already said, is to find something sustainable, enjoyable, and healthy, that makes your body feel good, that generates and maintains a healthy weight over the long term.
For me, IF isn't primarily for weight loss, it's for digestive problems, pain management, and to combat fatigue, so for me, this is a long term lifestyle.
I generally don't have weight targets, I have healthy lifestyle targets, and a healthy weight is a natural byproduct of living an optimally healthy life.
So sure, do keto if it feels like your healthiest, most sustainable option. If it isn't, then do something else. Do the thing that is best for YOUR body, and that thing is likely the lifestyle that produces the best CICO balance.2 -
Well, I did keto for 3 and a half years. And then I lost my mind and gained 50 lbs after going back to carbs. Everyone is different but I think for most people, a diet as restrictive as keto is just not sustainable long term. I am one who seriously questions the health benefits for the average person too.
At the time it helped me lose weight and I guess I just didn't care about anything else but what was working at the time. I had convinced myself there was something special/ different about me and avoiding all carbs was the only way I could be a healthy weight, even though I can't say I enjoyed it. Eventually I realized it really was about caloric intake/ output and I've lost 45 lbs in a year and a half through old fashioned calorie counting.6 -
Keto works
If you have a calorie deficit.
I don't do keto and probably never will because it's too restrictive and let's face it carbs are delicious 😁
But I do try to limit processed carbs as much as I can - because they are high in calories, easy to overeat and do not satiate me.
I have most weekends off plan and I often fall into a carb hole which sabotages my midweek efforts!
Carbs trigger something in me that makes me over eat.
So I can understand why people do Keto.
But I don't think it's sustainable in the long run.
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