Program without squats or deadlifts
Davidjohnson9333
Posts: 32 Member
In the past month I’ve hurt my back twice, gone to a trainer for a form check, and finally a chiropractor. Bottom line is, even with good form, I can no longer do heavy deadlifts or squats due to a medical condition, nothing over 40% my current 1rep max
Given my stats below, is there any program I can do that does not include squats or deadlifts? I’m probably looking for health benefits and keeping muscle more than gaining muscle; giving my limitations…. Most programs I’ve found are beginner programs and I’m not sure I’m a beginner. Not a pride issue, just don’t want to waste my time with a program that doesn’t fit my goals. I would want to lean toward higher reps and lower weight, if that would be safer….
Stats: 48yo male, 215lbs 6’4, lifting for 3 years, gained 20lbs muscle and lost 40lbs of fat. 400lb deadlift, 250 bench, and 300 squat; before the injury, estimated using my 5 rep max.
Given my stats below, is there any program I can do that does not include squats or deadlifts? I’m probably looking for health benefits and keeping muscle more than gaining muscle; giving my limitations…. Most programs I’ve found are beginner programs and I’m not sure I’m a beginner. Not a pride issue, just don’t want to waste my time with a program that doesn’t fit my goals. I would want to lean toward higher reps and lower weight, if that would be safer….
Stats: 48yo male, 215lbs 6’4, lifting for 3 years, gained 20lbs muscle and lost 40lbs of fat. 400lb deadlift, 250 bench, and 300 squat; before the injury, estimated using my 5 rep max.
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Replies
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Can you find a strength and conditioning coach? They’re skilled in assessing and programming around injuries, so should in theory be able to design a programme which still helps you to attain your goals but without causing further injury. So just a few thoughts (but you need to get checked out before doing these); Bulgarian split squats can build muscle without the heavy load of squats, weighted lunges similarly, there are gym machines out there which will target the leg and back muscles in a narrow range of movement, RDLs (single and double) give great value for lighter weights, pistol squats, handstand press ups (for upper back)… thing is, we can come up with loads of ideas but you could hurt yourself following some random person’s suggestion online.0
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Thanks! I can’t afford a trainer or coach. I have limitations from the doctor, so I know what I can and can’t do. However, I’m wondering if I can simply replace the deadlifts in an overall program and still get the results. For example, does it make sense to replace the squats and deadlifts in stronglifts 5x5 with something else and still have an effective program overall? I wouldn’t think so, which started my quest for an established program without these…0
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What did your prior squat and deadlift programming that led to injury look like?0
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Im sorry you are experiencing a set back.
What were you dx'd with?
What programs did you run prior to your setback & did they include proper load management?
High reps or low reps would be determined by your dosage if stress. Neither is "safer" without context of external load of stress.
40% 1rm for what exertion...1-30 reps in relation to 40%? Very vague definition of load.
What do you consider "good form" since there isn't a definition that is universal for squat or deadlift?
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Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »Thanks! I can’t afford a trainer or coach. I have limitations from the doctor, so I know what I can and can’t do. However, I’m wondering if I can simply replace the deadlifts in an overall program and still get the results. For example, does it make sense to replace the squats and deadlifts in stronglifts 5x5 with something else and still have an effective program overall? I wouldn’t think so, which started my quest for an established program without these…
You can but SL is a program used for someone who hasn't lifted before and beyond the first 5-6 months isn't useful for anything but grinding and spinning wheels. Not to mention zero load management which increases injury risk.
I would seek a program that has auto regulation and proper load management for the equipment you have available or at the very least has alternative lifts incorporated for any DL or squat including variations.
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Im sorry you are experiencing a set back.
What were you dx'd with?
What programs did you run prior to your setback & did they include proper load management?
High reps or low reps would be determined by your dosage if stress. Neither is "safer" without context of external load of stress.
40% 1rm for what exertion...1-30 reps in relation to 40%? Very vague definition of load.
What do you consider "good form" since there isn't a definition that is universal for squat or deadlift?
Can’t remember the name, but it is genetic. Confirmed with ex rays and has to do with disk degeneration.
I did a low weight dumbbell program and started stronglifts 5x5 moving to madcow 5x5.
He said “don’t deadlift over 100lbs”, but said maybe a little more when I expressed how light 100lb deadlifts are. He is not a weight lifter…
I just had a trainer look at my form, single session due to costs. He said my form looked good.0 -
Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »Thanks! I can’t afford a trainer or coach. I have limitations from the doctor, so I know what I can and can’t do. However, I’m wondering if I can simply replace the deadlifts in an overall program and still get the results. For example, does it make sense to replace the squats and deadlifts in stronglifts 5x5 with something else and still have an effective program overall? I wouldn’t think so, which started my quest for an established program without these…
You can but SL is a program used for someone who hasn't lifted before and beyond the first 5-6 months isn't useful for anything but grinding and spinning wheels. Not to mention zero load management which increases injury risk.
I would seek a program that has auto regulation and proper load management for the equipment you have available or at the very least has alternative lifts incorporated for any DL or squat including variations.
Do you have a few examples of that type of program. I can’t find any that has alternatives for both deadlift and squats…
Thanks!0 -
How did you determine how much weight to put on the bar? How often did you fail reps?0
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Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »Im sorry you are experiencing a set back.
What were you dx'd with?
What programs did you run prior to your setback & did they include proper load management?
High reps or low reps would be determined by your dosage if stress. Neither is "safer" without context of external load of stress.
40% 1rm for what exertion...1-30 reps in relation to 40%? Very vague definition of load.
What do you consider "good form" since there isn't a definition that is universal for squat or deadlift?
Can’t remember the name, but it is genetic. Confirmed with ex rays and has to do with disk degeneration.
I did a low weight dumbbell program and started stronglifts 5x5 moving to madcow 5x5.
He said “don’t deadlift over 100lbs”, but said maybe a little more when I expressed how light 100lb deadlifts are. He is not a weight lifter…
I just had a trainer look at my form, single session due to costs. He said my form looked good.
This is often the problem...that and they don't know the current evidence. My doctor years ago advicved me to stop lifting unless they were pink dumbbells. That put me in a wheelchair until I started lifting again. I'm really surprises a doctor would be so vague regardless...100lbs without context how the intensity is dosed is non sense. I can make 100lbs feel like 500 pretty easily. If I were you I would sign up for a free consultation over at BBM. Those doctors are well versed more than I with your condition and can certainly help you with questions to ask your medical team with some of your medical & training history available.
Yeah form isn't a actual thing as far as injury risk is concerned. We can certainly improve technique though that is just allows us to produce more force efficiently. Form is just a generic term without definition that is implied universally. Bad form gets mistaken for the results of poor load management.
You probably won't have great luck find "free" ones if that is what you are asking for. I write programs without DL & squats for a few clients once I have more info on them and their goals. With your condition I would seek the general advice of the crew at BBM and they may be able to point you in the best direction with more detailed info.Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »
Do you have a few examples of that type of program. I can’t find any that has alternatives for both deadlift and squats…
Thanks!
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Step ups, hip thrusts, glute bridges, lunges. If you have access to machines— leg press, GHD, ham curls, leg extensions…there are so many substitutions available for leg strength. Don’t overthink it.0
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Step ups, hip thrusts, glute bridges, lunges. If you have access to machines— leg press, GHD, ham curls, leg extensions…there are so many substitutions available for leg strength. Don’t overthink it.
Thanks! So take a program and replace the squat and DL with a substitute exercise and keep the same progression?0 -
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Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »Im sorry you are experiencing a set back.
What were you dx'd with?
What programs did you run prior to your setback & did they include proper load management?
High reps or low reps would be determined by your dosage if stress. Neither is "safer" without context of external load of stress.
40% 1rm for what exertion...1-30 reps in relation to 40%? Very vague definition of load.
What do you consider "good form" since there isn't a definition that is universal for squat or deadlift?
Can’t remember the name, but it is genetic. Confirmed with ex rays and has to do with disk degeneration.
I did a low weight dumbbell program and started stronglifts 5x5 moving to madcow 5x5.
He said “don’t deadlift over 100lbs”, but said maybe a little more when I expressed how light 100lb deadlifts are. He is not a weight lifter…
I just had a trainer look at my form, single session due to costs. He said my form looked good.
This is often the problem...that and they don't know the current evidence. My doctor years ago advicved me to stop lifting unless they were pink dumbbells. That put me in a wheelchair until I started lifting again. I'm really surprises a doctor would be so vague regardless...100lbs without context how the intensity is dosed is non sense. I can make 100lbs feel like 500 pretty easily. If I were you I would sign up for a free consultation over at BBM. Those doctors are well versed more than I with your condition and can certainly help you with questions to ask your medical team with some of your medical & training history available.
Yeah form isn't a actual thing as far as injury risk is concerned. We can certainly improve technique though that is just allows us to produce more force efficiently. Form is just a generic term without definition that is implied universally. Bad form gets mistaken for the results of poor load management.
You probably won't have great luck find "free" ones if that is what you are asking for. I write programs without DL & squats for a few clients once I have more info on them and their goals. With your condition I would seek the general advice of the crew at BBM and they may be able to point you in the best direction with more detailed info.Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »
Do you have a few examples of that type of program. I can’t find any that has alternatives for both deadlift and squats…
Thanks!
Thanks! I can’t afford to pay for a program. Guess I’m SOL…0
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