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Why do myths persist?
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
I note the sarcasm. Of course you are correct, there have always been myths and legends about everything and anything since the dawn of civilisation.
However, the internet has contributed astronomically to the ability to spread the myths instantly to millions of people with a click of a button. Anonymously, with no explanations, conversations, or questions asked.
In the past, people might have questioned the information they heard from their crazy Aunt Mildred. But, now, if they Googled it or saw it on Tik Tok or their Facebook feed, then it's a reliable source.1 -
Just for fun, since someone(s) brought pre-internet history into it, below is some info from my old home economics textbook, published in 1960**. Nonsense really hasn't changed that much:
** The images are from a book, "Family Meals and Hospitality", by Lewis/Peckham/Hovey, 1960 edition. There are more samples from it here, if anyone is interested:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10625791/mainstream-eating-guidance-1960/p19 -
"Ice cream and seafood should not be eaten at the same meal."
I dunno...I may have to buy into this one, from a strictly taste-centric perspective! lol
People will believe just about anything if they trust the person telling them to actually know what they're talking about. Unfortunately, sometimes a person will take as gospel what another is saying, regardless whether the original person believes it or is trying to deceive anybody in the first place. For example,
Person A: I heard a rumor that...
Person B: Person A said it, so it must be true.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
They were just disguised as bestsellers, usually in hardcover.
For kittens and giggles I searched NY Times non-fiction bestsellers for 1981. Never-Say-Diet Book by Richard Simmons and The Beverly Hills Diet by Judy Mazel occupied a lot of weeks that year.2 -
age_is_just_a_number wrote: »We’ve all heard them, believed them, learned they weren’t true. There are so many diet, nutrition and exercise myths. Why do you think they persist?
https://youtu.be/1hcogiUUNnM 0 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
I note the sarcasm. Of course you are correct, there have always been myths and legends about everything and anything since the dawn of civilisation.
However, the internet has contributed astronomically to the ability to spread the myths instantly to millions of people with a click of a button. Anonymously, with no explanations, conversations, or questions asked.
In the past, people might have questioned the information they heard from their crazy Aunt Mildred. But, now, if they Googled it or saw it on Tik Tok or their Facebook feed, then it's a reliable source.
In the past, people picked up a magazine with 20 diets myths in it every time they went to the grocery store or drug store, or the magazine just arrived in their mailbox, saving them the trouble of buying it at the grocery store or the drug store. And in my experience, with the way photocopies of the cabbage soup diet or whatever circulated among people, I don't think a lot of folks were questioning information they heard from their crazy Aunt Mildred. Or their neighbor or their friend or even their doctor was urging the same diet myth as Aunt Mildred, because that was the one that was popular that month, so it didn't make a difference that they weren't listening to crazy Aunt Mildred, who got it from a friend in her bridge group who got it from the pastor's wife who got it from her sister ...2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
They were just disguised as bestsellers, usually in hardcover.
For kittens and giggles I searched NY Times non-fiction bestsellers for 1981. Never-Say-Diet Book by Richard Simmons and The Beverly Hills Diet by Judy Mazel occupied a lot of weeks that year.
/s = end sarcasm font.0 -
I’ve been watching the Debunked series on the Science Insider YouTube channel. I’m pleased to report that nearly all the nutrition, diet, fitness episodes I’ve watched I didn’t learn anything new. In other words, I had already identified the myths they were debunking.
I think there are many reasons why myths persist. Two reasons that stick out for me are:
1) we want to believe them
2) there is a small grain of truth embedded in the myth.
Eg., When you squat your knees should not go past your toes. We all know this is a myth. Where does it come from? I’ve not researched it but in my observation it exists because:
1) for a trainer, it is easier to instruct people to keep their knees behind their toes than for the trainer to instruct people to engage their glutes and hamstrings. But if you knees are behind your toes there is a higher likelihood that your weight is in your heels and you are engaging your glutes and hamstrings.
2) for many people it is ‘normal’ for them to squat with their knees behind their toes. It just isn’t a one size fits all instruction.0 -
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
They were just disguised as bestsellers, usually in hardcover.
For kittens and giggles I searched NY Times non-fiction bestsellers for 1981. Never-Say-Diet Book by Richard Simmons and The Beverly Hills Diet by Judy Mazel occupied a lot of weeks that year.
/s = end sarcasm font.
Yes, I was being facetious, although I know that doesn't necessarily come across in text.
Thus my reference to hardcover format, which sold at a higher price point than paperback, so the publishers could rake in the most money before the next hot diet book appeared. 0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »There were no myths about dieting before the Internet. /s
They were just disguised as bestsellers, usually in hardcover.
For kittens and giggles I searched NY Times non-fiction bestsellers for 1981. Never-Say-Diet Book by Richard Simmons and The Beverly Hills Diet by Judy Mazel occupied a lot of weeks that year.
/s = end sarcasm font.
Yes, I was being facetious, although I know that doesn't necessarily come across in text. Thus my reference to hardcover format, which sold at a higher price point than paperback, so the publishers could rake in the most money before the next hot diet book appeared.
Oh, OK. As you say, facetiousness doesn't necessarily come across in text. Maybe we need /f as well as /s.0 -
Snake oil has been around for as long as ……..snakes.
I’ll never forget when a friend convinced me to go with her to a “salt cave treatment” that was going to cure all our ills.
I had to keep a straight face when it turned out to be a tiny room in a rundown office complex, walls covered in plastic and sprayed down with salt crystals. We sat on cheap lawn chairs and inhaled the healthful benefits of salt until a cheap kitchen timer rang.
This same friend, whom I love dearly (our kids are married to each other) is also convinced that COVID can be preemptively prevented and controlled by Jin Shin Jyutsu grips on various body parts.
Of course there are JSJ holds for weight loss, too, which she very tactfully intimated I wasn’t taking advantage of.
To be fair, when the dog was sick and she did JSJ holds on him they seemed very effective. It helped that they were on his tummy. 😂
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A major reason why myths continue, is that they sometimes work. The people who don't see good results call them myths, but enough people DO get good results, so they tell others, and it spreads.
Lots of variables that allow this to happen as well, such as short " success " time. Or not paying attention to the affect when you quit.. but then these are true of most diets, right? Even the ones most people accept. Cut 500 calories, lose weight, and when you stop, you gain it back.. no one says that is a myth.. they lost weight.
Same is true of most diets, or tricks. They have an element of truth, and work for those who can follow them, long enough to speak to others about them.
We all know a friend who tried some stupid sounding diet, or supplement/shake etc. We laughed at them, then 2 weeks later, see they are down 10 lbs. In a month, it's 25, and you start telling your other friends, that so and so is doing X diet, and it's working.
Eventually, you see the friend, who is back to the weight they were, maybe 6 months later, and you two agree.. it didn't really work. Do you go tell all your friends about THAT friend's failure? that would not be nice. Plus, you have to admit you were a sucker.
So you know it didn't work now, but many people only heard someone else lost 25 lbs. on it!! Only eat grapefruit, and one serving of cottage cheese. Some people will ignore the weight gain after the person quits, and look at the diet as a temporary fix. Use it for swimsuit season.. we all did this at some point.. a one month diet for summer. Heck, you can starve yourself for a month. It would work, but isn't a real solution, and would result in no weight loss in the long run, and possible health problems.
Some things though, we call myths, but they do work for some people, for long periods of time, with good results. They aren't really myths, just usually not something most people will do the way the successful people do it. So few see good results that we think of them as myths.. they certainly don't work for US.
Overall though, when I was younger, I heard about these fad diets, and products MORE than I do these days, but few people I knew actually did more than a couple of them.. they sound far-fetched, and might be spoken of, but most often, they aren't really tried by many.
We tend to just laugh at these ideas. It's not like we try them ALL, and actually KNOW they are myths.. we just KNOW, we won't eat that way long term, so it won't work for US. Myth or no myth, I don't really care, unless it can help ME. If someone else tries them.. it doesn't affect me.
I find myself wondering why people care that myths do exist. My only concern is what works for me. The rest just amuses me. Hopefully, they help someone. If not, live and learn.1 -
springlering62 wrote: »Snake oil has been around for as long as ……..snakes.
I’ll never forget when a friend convinced me to go with her to a “salt cave treatment” that was going to cure all our ills.
I had to keep a straight face when it turned out to be a tiny room in a rundown office complex, walls covered in plastic and sprayed down with salt crystals. We sat on cheap lawn chairs and inhaled the healthful benefits of salt until a cheap kitchen timer rang.
This same friend, whom I love dearly (our kids are married to each other) is also convinced that COVID can be preemptively prevented and controlled by Jin Shin Jyutsu grips on various body parts.
Of course there are JSJ holds for weight loss, too, which she very tactfully intimated I wasn’t taking advantage of.
To be fair, when the dog was sick and she did JSJ holds on him they seemed very effective. It helped that they were on his tummy. 😂
I live in Woo Central and I’ve never heard of Jin Shin Jyutsu.
Probably because my friends know better than to pitch stuff like that at me.
Although one of my best friends tried to get me on board with horse dewormer two days ago. I had to firmly tell her I love her but I don’t need a veterinarian.6 -
I am with penguinmamma on this one. A lot of the examples given above boil down to the basic myth of "there is a secret cabal with all the knowldge to give unequivocal answers to these questions", mixed perhaps with other basic myths such as "if it doesn't hurt/taste bad, it isn't proper medicine" etc. And these basic myths persist because they are easy to believe in, because they make intuitive sense (vs rational sense) and make good stories.
I have thought a lot about this over the years and I think this is it - we are a storytelling speciese and the stories that persist aren't the ones who are most beautiful or most true but the ones who make the most narrative sense to the greatest number of people. In the retelling they adapt and evovle, the way living genes do, and so the fittest sruvive. Dawkins gave a simple but effective explanation of them (and invented the term "memes" for them) but Terry Pratchet explained it more poetically and in a way I like better by saying stories shape people, not the other way around, and the strongest stories have lived for so long and dug ruts so deep it's extremely hard to get out of one once you're in it. See: Witches abroad, also Hogfather, but there is some reference to this in nearly every one of his works.
A mhsterious but benevolent group having simple, easy, and secret answers to fundamental questions or needs about health/money/etc. is such a strong myth probably because for a lot of us for a period in our childhood that was literally true Mom and Dad always had the answer in some arcane, adult way, or teachers did, or someone. Then we grew up. Only we still carry not just our lizzard brain but also our childhood mind around with us... 0 -
Wiseandcurious wrote: »…
A mhsterious but benevolent group having simple, easy, and secret answers to fundamental questions or needs about health/money/etc.
And that’s why I’m so grateful for those lovely MFP’ers who not only care about my weight, but enough to help me invest my hard earned money as well. Such concern for random folks on the internet is golden.
/sarcasm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFBt0q9gOm4
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