Body scans
Photogdave
Posts: 6 Member
Just wondering how much you can depend on results from InBody scans.
I got back in gym 5 weeks ago, 3 days a week…M,W,F.
Did body scan at beginning around a week in.
Did another one today 6 weeks in
Said muscle mass has gone down
Body fat up.
While neither I consider a large amount, it baffles me how it’s possible no increase in muscle and no decrease in fat.
Workouts in morning around an hour.
3 sets of 10 min, last set rep 10 at failure
Flys 150lbs, bench120 , and incline bench 140
Arm curls 120
Triceps
Triceps dips 160lbs
Crunch machine 70
Back machine 70
Leg press 320
Leg curls 160
Calves 80
Pull downs 130
Pull backs 130
All done slow and deliberate
May not hit all those every workout but may only miss one.
Some days I spend last 10 min on some sort of cardio
Scan says metabolic rate 1850 cal
I’ve tried to stay at it couple hundred under.
What gives. I feel I’ve noticed more than what I’m reading.
I’m way stronger than 6 weeks ago.
I’ve doubled my weight on most machines since 6weeks ago.
I see shape changing
But I also know areas where fat in hanging around.
But it’s only 6 weeks
I got back in gym 5 weeks ago, 3 days a week…M,W,F.
Did body scan at beginning around a week in.
Did another one today 6 weeks in
Said muscle mass has gone down
Body fat up.
While neither I consider a large amount, it baffles me how it’s possible no increase in muscle and no decrease in fat.
Workouts in morning around an hour.
3 sets of 10 min, last set rep 10 at failure
Flys 150lbs, bench120 , and incline bench 140
Arm curls 120
Triceps
Triceps dips 160lbs
Crunch machine 70
Back machine 70
Leg press 320
Leg curls 160
Calves 80
Pull downs 130
Pull backs 130
All done slow and deliberate
May not hit all those every workout but may only miss one.
Some days I spend last 10 min on some sort of cardio
Scan says metabolic rate 1850 cal
I’ve tried to stay at it couple hundred under.
What gives. I feel I’ve noticed more than what I’m reading.
I’m way stronger than 6 weeks ago.
I’ve doubled my weight on most machines since 6weeks ago.
I see shape changing
But I also know areas where fat in hanging around.
But it’s only 6 weeks
1
Replies
-
Increased strength early on is only due in part to muscle gain (muscle gain generally is slow) but in most part due to neurological adaptation (better activation of your muscles).
I'm also wondering if metabolic rate refers to BMR (basal metabolic rate). If so, you shouldn't use that to determine your eating goal. Staying a couple of hundred calories under it (around 1650) sounds a bit low for someone your weight. For weight loss, you need to stay a under your TDEE, not your BMR. The greater the difference between your TDEE and your actual intake, the harder it will be for your body to gain muscle. But considering you haven't lost a lot of weight since you started, it's probably not an issue (perhaps you're underestimating your intake?).
In that same vein, gaining muscle requires sufficient protein intake, so make sure you're consuming enough.
As for the scan itself, there will certainly be a margin of error which, considering how small the supposed increase of fat mass is, is certainly a possible explanation. I wouldn't let it discourage you, the way you look and how your clothes fit might be a better way to judge your progress. The scans might give extra info, but more long-term over a series of scans, rather than taking each individual scan as gospel.2 -
InBody is a good version of a BIA scale but they are still prone to weird and wonderful and woefully inaccurate results.
I used a similar commercial quality device under what I though were consistent conditions and the machine told me I gained a fantastic 7lbs of muscle in four days. Fantastic as in total fantasy.
Scan says metabolic rate 1850 cal - that's not an eating goal and don't use it as such. It's just using your body stats the same as other estimates including the one on here and also used when doing your goal setup - all your daily movement and exercise is on top of that. Either use MFP or a TDEE calculator to get a far more sensible eating goal (depending on how you want to account for exercise).
I’ve tried to stay at it couple hundred under. - Again, it's not giving you an eating goal, it's giving you what is a pretty useless number without context to the rest of your life. It's a bad goal which you are making worse by under-cutting it.
I’m way stronger than 6 weeks ago. I’ve doubled my weight on most machines since 6weeks ago. - Great that's real progress, but at the start or training or return to training those strength gains are very little to do with increased muscle mass. Mostly just using your existing muscles better.
I see shape changing - Yay! Well done you, your hard work is producing results. You might find progress pictures and tape measurements are far more reliable indicators of progress.3 -
Increased strength early on is only due in part to muscle gain (muscle gain generally is slow) but in most part due to neurological adaptation (better activation of your muscles).
I'm also wondering if metabolic rate refers to BMR (basal metabolic rate). If so, you shouldn't use that to determine your eating goal. Staying a couple of hundred calories under it (around 1650) sounds a bit low for someone your weight. For weight loss, you need to stay a under your TDEE, not your BMR. The greater the difference between your TDEE and your actual intake, the harder it will be for your body to gain muscle. But considering you haven't lost a lot of weight since you started, it's probably not an issue (perhaps you're underestimating your intake?).
In that same vein, gaining muscle requires sufficient protein intake, so make sure you're consuming enough.
As for the scan itself, there will certainly be a margin of error which, considering how small the supposed increase of fat mass is, is certainly a possible explanation. I wouldn't let it discourage you, the way you look and how your clothes fit might be a better way to judge your progress. The scans might give extra info, but more long-term over a series of scans, rather than taking each individual scan as gospel.
The trainer that did the initial scan said it was BMR, and to stay under that. She is now gone. Lady yesterday said she thinks I’m not eating enough. I use this app to enter my food in and monitor macros the best I can.
Not sure how else I can eat more without forcing food. I’m not hungry.
It’s really hard to eat properly around the area I work. Basically fast food everywhere
And a couple Meat+3. I frequent those and try to eat baked chicken, some sort of non fried meat. A green vegetable and maybe something black eyed peas or the like.
All of which is standard portion and I usually don’t eat all of it.
I do monitor protein
In fact most days based on fitness pal I go over by a little
Not real sure what to do
My initial purpose for gym was to gain muscle in order to more efficiently burn calories.
But I guess I need to do more cardio
Or stay the course and keep going0 -
Your ex-trainer gave you awful advice!
BMR is basal metabolic rate - your burn rate at total rest and in a fasted state.
But of course you aren't at total rest all day and night while eating nothing.
Using my numbers today as an example:
Estimated BMR = 1,566
But when MyFitnessPal accounts for my daily activity my weight maintenance goal for a day with no purposeful exercise = 2,500
And I add today's exercise my calorie goal to maintain weight = 3,049
Hopefully that illustrates why using BMR as a number to eat under to create a deficit is such a bad idea.
Strongly suggest you start again and set a far more sensible eating goal that takes your entire day into account.
That's what the goal set up here is for.
3 -
Photogdave wrote: »Increased strength early on is only due in part to muscle gain (muscle gain generally is slow) but in most part due to neurological adaptation (better activation of your muscles).
I'm also wondering if metabolic rate refers to BMR (basal metabolic rate). If so, you shouldn't use that to determine your eating goal. Staying a couple of hundred calories under it (around 1650) sounds a bit low for someone your weight. For weight loss, you need to stay a under your TDEE, not your BMR. The greater the difference between your TDEE and your actual intake, the harder it will be for your body to gain muscle. But considering you haven't lost a lot of weight since you started, it's probably not an issue (perhaps you're underestimating your intake?).
In that same vein, gaining muscle requires sufficient protein intake, so make sure you're consuming enough.
As for the scan itself, there will certainly be a margin of error which, considering how small the supposed increase of fat mass is, is certainly a possible explanation. I wouldn't let it discourage you, the way you look and how your clothes fit might be a better way to judge your progress. The scans might give extra info, but more long-term over a series of scans, rather than taking each individual scan as gospel.
The trainer that did the initial scan said it was BMR, and to stay under that. She is now gone. Lady yesterday said she thinks I’m not eating enough. I use this app to enter my food in and monitor macros the best I can.
Not sure how else I can eat more without forcing food. I’m not hungry.
It’s really hard to eat properly around the area I work. Basically fast food everywhere
And a couple Meat+3. I frequent those and try to eat baked chicken, some sort of non fried meat. A green vegetable and maybe something black eyed peas or the like.
All of which is standard portion and I usually don’t eat all of it.
I do monitor protein
In fact most days based on fitness pal I go over by a little
Not real sure what to do
My initial purpose for gym was to gain muscle in order to more efficiently burn calories.
But I guess I need to do more cardio
Or stay the course and keep going
1) InBody scan may be able to give you some general trends over a long period of time, but it's not going to be accurate in giving you your actual muscle mass and bodyfat%, etc.
2) BMR is the calories you burn merely existing and nothing else. Eating below that is going to create a very large calorie deficit and you aren't going to build muscle in a large calorie deficit. Building muscle is an anabolic process...a calorie deficit makes you catabolic. There are some marginal newbie muscle gains that come when you start lifting, but they are short lived. Lifting when dieting is more about maintaining the muscle mass you currently have as it is much easier to do that than to lose muscle in a catabolic state and trying to build it back later.1 -
Photogdave wrote: »Increased strength early on is only due in part to muscle gain (muscle gain generally is slow) but in most part due to neurological adaptation (better activation of your muscles).
I'm also wondering if metabolic rate refers to BMR (basal metabolic rate). If so, you shouldn't use that to determine your eating goal. Staying a couple of hundred calories under it (around 1650) sounds a bit low for someone your weight. For weight loss, you need to stay a under your TDEE, not your BMR. The greater the difference between your TDEE and your actual intake, the harder it will be for your body to gain muscle. But considering you haven't lost a lot of weight since you started, it's probably not an issue (perhaps you're underestimating your intake?).
In that same vein, gaining muscle requires sufficient protein intake, so make sure you're consuming enough.
As for the scan itself, there will certainly be a margin of error which, considering how small the supposed increase of fat mass is, is certainly a possible explanation. I wouldn't let it discourage you, the way you look and how your clothes fit might be a better way to judge your progress. The scans might give extra info, but more long-term over a series of scans, rather than taking each individual scan as gospel.Lady yesterday said she thinks I’m not eating enough. I use this app to enter my food in and monitor macros the best I can.
Not sure how else I can eat more without forcing food. I’m not hungry.
Hunger isn't a good guide. Too-low calories can increase stress-related water retention, confuse matters on the bodyweight scale (and probably the easily-confused InBody, too).It’s really hard to eat properly around the area I work. Basically fast food everywhere
And a couple Meat+3. I frequent those and try to eat baked chicken, some sort of non fried meat. A green vegetable and maybe something black eyed peas or the like.
I hope you're not falling for the "good food/bad food" concept, about individual foods or food purveyors? There really aren't good or bad individual foods, other than poisons or allergens, IMO.
There can be better or worse overall diets, and nutrition is the key yardstick. Get a sufficient minimum of protein and fats, a boatload of varied & colorful veggies/fruits for micros and fiber, you're probably doing well. It's possible to eat all and only so-called "superfoods" but have poor overall nutrition.All of which is standard portion and I usually don’t eat all of it.
I do monitor protein
In fact most days based on fitness pal I go over by a little
Specifically, if someone is eating too few calories, and the "right" percentage of those calories is protein, they're probably not getting enough protein.
You can get evidence-based recommendations for a protein minimum here:
https://examine.com/nutrition/protein-intake-calculator/
https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/
The site is generally regarded as neutral; they don't sell supplements (they sell research-based nutrition reports, but offer some, like these, for free, with extensive cites of their protein research sources in that 2nd link).
IIRC, the default MFP protein percent is 20%, maybe? 20% of 1850 calories (or less) would be 92.5g protein (or less).
I eat more protein than that, as a li'l ol' lady vegetarian. A rule of thumb (which loosely accords with that (better) calculator) would be around a gram of protein daily per pound of lean body mass (LBM), or 0.6-0.8g per pound of healthy body weight is close enough to that for people who have no idea of LBM. Your InBody results are probably close enough to use for protein estimating purposes, which I think would put you around a 150g minimum?Not real sure what to do
My initial purpose for gym was to gain muscle in order to more efficiently burn calories.
I always forget numbers, but research suggests that, at rest, a pound of muscle burns something like 4 calories per pound per day more than a pound of fat (which is also metabolically active). That's not a big number, and it takes quite a bit of effort/time to add that pound of muscle, under the best of circumstances. (WRT calorie burn among other things, strength training is an investment in one's future.)
I have a personal theory, for which I can't provide research evidence, that people who are stronger tend to find movement/activity more fun, and burn more calories that way (i.e., they spend less time "at rest"). That's potentially more meaningful, IMO.But I guess I need to do more cardio
Or stay the course and keep going
Cardio varies hugely, so much so that it's almost meaningless to discuss "cardio" as if it were all one thing.
That said, most cardio burns more calories per minute than most strength training, so offers a more meaningful short term boost to weight loss, if that's your goal.
"Cardio" is any kind of moving more that gets your heart rate up a bit. Sometimes people have the mistaken idea that "cardio" needs to be intense and exhausting to be useful. Nope.
In reality, for most cases, the highest total calorie burn is going to come from figuring out how much time you can spend doing that "cardio" (while maintaining good overall life balance, i.e., enough time and energy for family, job, other things important to you), then allocating that time to cardio.
Divide the time into a short warm-up, the main body of the workout where you work at the highest steady-state intensity you can maintain for that amount of time without causing excessive fatigue, then a short cool-down. You want to feel energized for the rest of your day (after maybe a very few minutes of "whew" feeling right after the workout). You shouldn't feel depleted or fatigued longer, post workout. That's counter-productive, bleeds calorie burn out of the rest of your day via fatigue.
Note that that's about calorie burn, just above. It's also a good place to start for building cardiovascular (CV) fitness. It builds base fitness.
If CV fitness is a goal, after a few weeks/months, it's good to start mixing in interval work or short intense work once or twice a week. Don't fall for the "HIIT every day" nonsense. (It's more fatiguing than necessary, some types increase injury risk via moving fast when fatigued, the "afterburn" (EPOC) is seriously over-rated, and no elite athlete became an elite athlete while working at their personal maximum intensity all the time (nor do they train that way now, as elite athletes)).
If your cardio fitness is limited to start, work up to that amount of time gradually. Over time, as you get fitter cardio-wise, you'll be able to increase intensity, frequency, duration or type of exercise (as your preferences allow), burn more calories that way if you wish.
Pick a cardio activity you enjoy, or at least tolerate cheerfully. An exercise we enjoy, so do routinely, burns 100% more calories than one we skip, because it's no fun, whenever we can make an excuse.
Keep in mind that cardio isn't just the classics, like gym machines (elliptical, treadmill, rower, stair climber, stationary bike, whatever), running or swimming. Those a fine, of course. But there are a zillion other options: Outdoor cycling, running, in-line skating; walks or hikes; dozens of kinds of dancing from ballet to square dance; martial arts; rowing, canoeing, kayaking; games (basketball, disc golf, tennis . . . .), lots more.
Best wishes!5 -
Photogdave wrote: »Increased strength early on is only due in part to muscle gain (muscle gain generally is slow) but in most part due to neurological adaptation (better activation of your muscles).
I'm also wondering if metabolic rate refers to BMR (basal metabolic rate). If so, you shouldn't use that to determine your eating goal. Staying a couple of hundred calories under it (around 1650) sounds a bit low for someone your weight. For weight loss, you need to stay a under your TDEE, not your BMR. The greater the difference between your TDEE and your actual intake, the harder it will be for your body to gain muscle. But considering you haven't lost a lot of weight since you started, it's probably not an issue (perhaps you're underestimating your intake?).
In that same vein, gaining muscle requires sufficient protein intake, so make sure you're consuming enough.
As for the scan itself, there will certainly be a margin of error which, considering how small the supposed increase of fat mass is, is certainly a possible explanation. I wouldn't let it discourage you, the way you look and how your clothes fit might be a better way to judge your progress. The scans might give extra info, but more long-term over a series of scans, rather than taking each individual scan as gospel.
The trainer that did the initial scan said it was BMR, and to stay under that. She is now gone. Lady yesterday said she thinks I’m not eating enough. I use this app to enter my food in and monitor macros the best I can.
Not sure how else I can eat more without forcing food. I’m not hungry.
It’s really hard to eat properly around the area I work. Basically fast food everywhere
And a couple Meat+3. I frequent those and try to eat baked chicken, some sort of non fried meat. A green vegetable and maybe something black eyed peas or the like.
All of which is standard portion and I usually don’t eat all of it.
I do monitor protein
In fact most days based on fitness pal I go over by a little
Not real sure what to do
My initial purpose for gym was to gain muscle in order to more efficiently burn calories.
But I guess I need to do more cardio
Or stay the course and keep going
Pack your own lunch.3 -
Pack your own lunch
I knew you’d say that😂😂
But you’re right. Cheaper and more in control
I’m working on eating more today
Started the day with banana and peanut butter for breakfast and a dark plum.
Sirloin and a little mashed taters from Applebees for lunch.
It’s hard because I do get caught up in watching carbs. I did a year and a half on keto. I lost from 225 to 190
But it was insane, I felt terrible at end.
15 carbs a day, around 1500 calories.
No weight training. Just mtn biking and racing dirt bikes.
I believe A lot of my muscle went in the trash during that period
I’m trying to find something for the rest of my life, maintainable2 -
Photogdave wrote: »Pack your own lunch
I knew you’d say that😂😂
But you’re right. Cheaper and more in control
I’m working on eating more today
Started the day with banana and peanut butter for breakfast and a dark plum.
Sirloin and a little mashed taters from Applebees for lunch.
It’s hard because I do get caught up in watching carbs. I did a year and a half on keto. I lost from 225 to 190
But it was insane, I felt terrible at end.
15 carbs a day, around 1500 calories.
No weight training. Just mtn biking and racing dirt bikes.
I believe A lot of my muscle went in the trash during that period
I’m trying to find something for the rest of my life, maintainable
May I self-promote my own thread?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10636388/free-customized-personal-weight-loss-eating-plan-not-spam-or-mlm/p1
Tricks-y named diets are optional: Fine if they help a personal make a sustainable path (to goal, and/or beyond), not so good otherwise.
Just my opinion, as usual. 😉1 -
What are thoughts on frequency of training.
Is it possible I’m over training
I almost never feel sore the morning of workout
I know soreness isn’t a gauge of effectiveness, but I always figured no soreness, carry on??0 -
"What are thoughts on frequency of training."
- Highly variable between people and highly variable for the person. As you get fitter your capacity goes up. A huge deficit will reduce your capacity and over time that will get worse and your recovery will suffer. A person's sensitivity to training in a deficit will also be variable.
"Is it possible I’m over training"
- Interesting (but a bit long!) series of articles from Lyle McDonald about over-reaching / over-training.
- https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/guide-to-overtraining-overreaching
- Big takeaway for people that are driven and respond to struggling or a series of poor sessions by pushing harder is that when in a hole, stop digging. (Holds up hand!)
"I almost never feel sore the morning of workout"
"I know soreness isn’t a gauge of effectiveness, but I always figured no soreness, carry on??"
- That sounds like you are using it as a gauge and a guide! It's also not a training aim to promote soreness. Performance improvements over time and fatigue levels are more useful. In a hard training block I will monitor my first thing in the morning RHR to check it's not on a rising trend as I take more notice of data than feelings.
3 -
Thank you. Very helpful info.
I was out on 1800 calorie goal yesterday
She adjusted my protein up to 160, fat down to 60g and carbs at 160. I thought the calorie goal was low based on what she and you guys here had said. But I think it’s an attempt at my fat loss goal for now.
Calorie goal isn’t an issue for me
But those numbers are a little difficult to hit most days for me
For instance, I went over on fat today and still couldn’t hit protein goal
But I’ll figure it out1 -
Photogdave wrote: »Thank you. Very helpful info.
I was out on 1800 calorie goal yesterday
She adjusted my protein up to 160, fat down to 60g and carbs at 160. I thought the calorie goal was low based on what she and you guys here had said. But I think it’s an attempt at my fat loss goal for now.
Calorie goal isn’t an issue for me
But those numbers are a little difficult to hit most days for me
For instance, I went over on fat today and still couldn’t hit protein goal
But I’ll figure it out
In case you haven't run across it yet, this may be helpful with the protein goal:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also
It links to a spreadsheet that lists many, many foods in order by protein efficiency: Most protein for fewest calories.0 -
They tend to overestimate body fat percentage a lot, IMO.0
-
@nooshi713 InBody will be less than a Dexa. InBody doesn’t factor in organs or brain tissue.
Dexa counts that as fatty tissue.
I was using InBody at my gym on a regular basis for over a year. My Dexa was 4% more than InBody.2
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