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What amount of money is a “livable wage”?

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Davidjohnson9333
Davidjohnson9333 Posts: 32 Member
edited November 2021 in Debate Club
How much money would you need to make per year after taxes to live comfortably? This would need to cover medical insurance, everything….
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  • ReenieHJ
    ReenieHJ Posts: 9,724 Member
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    I could see us living comfortable on 75K a year. We live ok now on what we make but there are few extras in life(course there are definitely ways we could save such as cutting out cigarettes and soda....pointing to hubby). I'd love to travel and that's not going to happen much unless we scrimp, plan and save. At 68, who's got time or motivation for that?

    Ok, now that I've broken the ice, have at it.
  • Davidjohnson9333
    Davidjohnson9333 Posts: 32 Member
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    I have no idea what people mean when they say this. The average wage where I live is 42k a year before taxes. So maybe 36k after taxes. Assuming the bottom 20% is not making a “livable wage”, the maybe 25k a year is truly livable? However, when I talk with people about this, they come up with a much larger number, implying that 80% of the population is not making a livable wage. That can’t be true can it.

    And if 50k was the agreed upon number and everyone starting making that much, wouldn’t inflation rise to the point where 50k is the new 25k?
  • corinasue1143
    corinasue1143 Posts: 7,467 Member
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    About $48,000 average income before taxes here. I’m living on about $1400/mo when not trying to save. I am single, retired, not healthy enough to travel, go out a lot; healthy enough to not have medical expenses. For about 6 months during Covid lockdown, I lived on $700? But as cmriverside said, no doctor, dentist, gym, haircut, etc. during that 6 months. And I walked everywhere, no car, no deliveries. Not much of a life. No repeat, please. Also, my house is paid off and I didn’t pay taxes or insurance on my house and car during that 6 months. (Pay once a year).
  • Davidjohnson9333
    Davidjohnson9333 Posts: 32 Member
    edited November 2021
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    I’m just looking for an idea of what people mean when they say “livable wage”

    What is your list of things that are needed…. Health insurance, child care, own a home, own a car for each adult, eat at a restaurant once a week, Walmart clothes, vacations…. What is the list of thing you need and I can do the math.

    I have a family member that complains about this. She owns a 250k condo and spends more on food than anyone I know. I can’t ask her for risk of making things weird, so I’m trying to understand what she is complaining about…

    I think cmriverside and corinasue’s examples and thoughts are in line with what I would call “livable”; I misspoke when I said “comfortable” before. Of course, I was homeless and selling plasma to live at age 19, so my view may be skewed…
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,943 Member
    edited November 2021
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    Ah, well some people will complain about anything.

    I don't think we (any of us) can really judge what someone means - it's pretty individual. Some of us are super grateful to have a basic lifestyle and some of us aren't happy no matter how many blessings we have.

    I prefer to look at what I have not what I don't have but there have been times in my life where I just could not see it that way; usually when the stresses of that day were overwhelming to me for whatever reason.

  • Davidjohnson9333
    Davidjohnson9333 Posts: 32 Member
    edited November 2021
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    Well said! Removing these constant complainers, what do the politicians mean when they say it, the one that are really trying to help people. Not the ones that are saying vague things to get people to vote for them?
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,943 Member
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    uh, politics are off-limits on this site, no matter the context.
  • Davidjohnson9333
    Davidjohnson9333 Posts: 32 Member
    edited November 2021
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    Oh, my bad. I’m new here…. Thanks!
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,943 Member
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    :)
  • callsitlikeiseeit
    callsitlikeiseeit Posts: 8,627 Member
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    'Livable' is highly subjective. everyone has different expenses, some are necessary, some are not. Some are fixed, some are fluid. All are based on where you live, some are based on age.

    I have lived on under $20K a year. Much less.
    Far EASIER to live on on the 6 figures we do now. Is it a necessary income? No. The median income here is $30K.

    I could live on less. I have. We don't have a mortgage. We have a farm, so in theory at least, our food costs could be much lower than they are. We could eliminate some of our vehicles and only have one, if we needed to. That would cut costs on insurance, maintenance, etc. Plenty of other luxuries and conveniences we have that we could cut if needed.

    our single LARGEST expense every month - electricity. Our house is older, decent sized, and not energy efficient at ALL. Needs new siding, insulation, windows, and roof. So, given THAT expense (the bill, not the repairs needed that we keep not doing LOL), I'd say after taxes, to live somewhat comfortably.... 2500/month- which comes to $30K - again, after taxes. doesnt take into account healthcare. but i would think at that income, youd probably qualify for assistance? not sure. i would hope so, but that doesnt make it true.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 13,174 Member
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    My community passed a living wage ordinance 22 years ago. Anyone who does contract work for the City must pay all workers a living wage. The actual amount is revised each year based on the Consumer Price Index. As of July 1, 2021 it's $13.81 per hour. That's less than $30,000 per year for full time work, and it's a little more than a dollar over our state's minimum wage. Sort of. My state has three minimum wages ($12/hr for rural communities, $12.75 most other places, and $14 the metro area).

    The lowest salary for represented employees in the City I live are actually below the living wage ($13.10 per hour or about $27,260 per year). The three lowest rates of pay for casual employees for the city are below the living wage ($12.75, $13.07, and $13.50 per hour). Is it ironic that the entity that requires its contractors to pay their employees a living wage don't pay all of their employees that wage? Well, that's not completely honest; the represented employees get benefits, and contractors can count benefits like health insurance towards the living wage. Casual workers don't get benefits and can be paid a lower wage than what's deemed a living wage and less than the city requires contractors to pay ALL employees. Yeah. Weird. It's also interesting that the wages of management increases at a faster rate than for the people who do the work. I have a problem with that. It's probably not uncommon.

    The recent census says that per-capita income in my state is a little less than $34,000 which would be about $16.25 per hour for full time work with no overtime.

    I remember reading years ago about a study into whether money actually CAN buy happiness. The result was that additional income does make people happier up to about $75,000 in the USA. Since it was several years ago, I bet that number has increased.

    So... where I live, apparently, a living wage is a little under $30K per year.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,961 Member
    edited November 2021
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    Davidjohnson9333 wrote: »
    I have no idea what people mean when they say this. The average wage where I live is 42k a year before taxes. So maybe 36k after taxes. Assuming the bottom 20% is not making a “livable wage”, the maybe 25k a year is truly livable? However, when I talk with people about this, they come up with a much larger number, implying that 80% of the population is not making a livable wage. That can’t be true can it.

    And if 50k was the agreed upon number and everyone starting making that much, wouldn’t inflation rise to the point where 50k is the new 25k?

    While I don't think it gets you to 80%, if you're in the U.S., a big chunk of the lower-tier, poorly paid workers (and their employers) are subsidized -- their employers don't pay them a living wage, so the government makes up the difference in subsidized health care (e.g., Medicaid, subsidized Affordable Care Act insurance), food subsidies (SNAP, WIC, free and discounted school breakfasts and lunches for the workers' children), tax credits (EIC, child tax credits), etc. ETA: I forgot heating fuel subsidies -- I forget the name of that program. And of course free public education through grade 12. There are probably other things I'm forgetting. Public transit is generally subsidized in most places in the U.S., and tends on average to be used more by lower-income workers, especially bus systems.

    Also, people's definitions of what "live comfortably" means is going to differ. Most people are probably going to feel like they couldn't live "comfortably" on much less than what they earn now, because they've adapted to that income.
  • ReenieHJ
    ReenieHJ Posts: 9,724 Member
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    Well, if you took away all the luxuries such as travel, eating out, etc. I could live on 20K a year. Maybe . :) I have 2 dogs that can cost me 1K in a month of vet visits(side note: need to speak up more and just say no to my vet who wants to sell me this, that and everything else :(). :( House and car is paid for, TG.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,877 Member
    edited November 2021
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    In California, 75K, but 100k is much better. It is expensive here.

    For example, I live in an average sized house in my neighborhood and my house payment and property taxes are $2700 a month, gas is $5 a gallon, I take quick showers and my water bill is $220 a month despite having no pool, and if I didn’t have solar my electric bill would be $500 a month like some of my neighbors.

    I’m not living a luxury life either. My house is still mostly unfurnished, I drive a 12 year old car, and dont eat at fancy places. I don’t shop much either.

    It is insane the cost of living here. Most people can’t afford their own place. A lot of adults live with their parents forever. Sometimes two families live in a single family home. When I was in college and after, 4 of us girls rented a tiny two bedroom apartment. I couldn’t afford my own apartment until after I became a physician assistant at age 28. I don’t live in Los Angeles either. I live an hour outside which is more *affordable*. If I lived in LA, I could not afford a home on my 6 figure wages. Nope. If I did happen to find one, it would be a 100 year old shack that’s falling apart.

    Why do I stay? Family and weather. I could not tolerate a place that snowed or froze or a place with high humidity.

    A huge factor in why things are so unaffordable is the high taxes. Our government sucks.

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