What's the deal with low carb diets?
Replies
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claireychn074 wrote: »By the way re carbs - a jacket spud slathered in butter? Absolute bliss 😀
Bliss indeed, especially with a generous sprinkle of 🧂 and pepper! Sour cream is also a wonderful topping for a humble spud! 😋2 -
Excessive Carbs/Processed Foods/Sugars
- Root cause of body and brain inflammation
- Root cause of Type 2 diabetes (T2D)
- Root cause of Obesity
- Raises Triglyceride (along with low HDL Cholesterol) leads to cardiovascular disease
- Raises insulin causing glucose spikes leads to always being hungry (over eating) and sluggishness/brain fog throughout the day
One may be able to handle this when they are young, but it builds slowly over time like wait gain and next thing you know it you're paying thousands dollars a month on insulin because of T2D and other medications that will effect your health in other ways. Pay now, not later with your health...0 -
LivingLifeInNY wrote: »Excessive Carbs/Processed Foods/Sugars
- Root cause of body and brain inflammation
- Root cause of Type 2 diabetes (T2D)
- Root cause of Obesity
- Raises Triglyceride (along with low HDL Cholesterol) leads to cardiovascular disease
- Raises insulin causing glucose spikes leads to always being hungry (over eating) and sluggishness/brain fog throughout the day
One may be able to handle this when they are young, but it builds slowly over time like wait gain and next thing you know it you're paying thousands dollars a month on insulin because of T2D and other medications that will effect your health in other ways. Pay now, not later with your health...
You're funny. 😀6 -
LivingLifeInNY wrote: »Excessive Carbs/Processed Foods/Sugars
- Root cause of body and brain inflammation
- Root cause of Type 2 diabetes (T2D)
- Root cause of Obesity
- Raises Triglyceride (along with low HDL Cholesterol) leads to cardiovascular disease
- Raises insulin causing glucose spikes leads to always being hungry (over eating) and sluggishness/brain fog throughout the day
One may be able to handle this when they are young, but it builds slowly over time like wait gain and next thing you know it you're paying thousands dollars a month on insulin because of T2D and other medications that will effect your health in other ways. Pay now, not later with your health...
Nah. Not as stated.
I'm 66 (not young). I eat 225g+ carbs daily. My blood sugars, triglycerides, HDL, LDL: All excellent. Blood pressure, low normal.
Yes, overall good nutrition (and exercise) are useful, important. When that's dialed in, carbs (per se), processed foods (whatever the heck you mean by that) and sugars (per se) are IMO irrelevant.5 -
LivingLifeInNY wrote: »Excessive Carbs/Processed Foods/Sugars
- Root cause of body and brain inflammation
- Root cause of Type 2 diabetes (T2D)
- Root cause of Obesity
- Raises Triglyceride (along with low HDL Cholesterol) leads to cardiovascular disease
- Raises insulin causing glucose spikes leads to always being hungry (over eating) and sluggishness/brain fog throughout the day
One may be able to handle this when they are young, but it builds slowly over time like wait gain and next thing you know it you're paying thousands dollars a month on insulin because of T2D and other medications that will effect your health in other ways. Pay now, not later with your health...
I live in Italy--we eat a lot of carbs. None of the things on your list are a big problem here. I make pasta everyday and eat pizza twice a week. OVEREATING causes the things on your list. It's time to take a little responsibility.
PS: I'm 67.7 -
Nothing wrong with carbs. But a lot of carbs in your typical grocery store that are easily accessible tend to be processed, and some people do not seem to understand how to discern between wholesome unprocessed carbs (steel cut oats, vegetables, etc) vs your typical white bread or cookies.
You keep on talking about 'processed' as if it's something bad. Have you ever looked up the list of ingredients from an 'honest' wholegrain bread sold at a bakery? It's full of additives. And btw, what's wrong with white bread? Heck, look up the list of ingredients of a typical while Arabic flatbread! You can't go a lot more 'unprocessed' than that where bread is concerned. Whole parts of southern Europe eat white bread, and many people are a heck more healthy than elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with processed, there's nothing wrong with carbs. Eat what you like, but try to get a half good mix of nutrition.
Stop trying to overly dissect what I typed. My point is unprocessed > processed. If you're trying to win that argument you obviously do not understand nutritional value.0 -
Nothing wrong with carbs. But a lot of carbs in your typical grocery store that are easily accessible tend to be processed, and some people do not seem to understand how to discern between wholesome unprocessed carbs (steel cut oats, vegetables, etc) vs your typical white bread or cookies.
You keep on talking about 'processed' as if it's something bad. Have you ever looked up the list of ingredients from an 'honest' wholegrain bread sold at a bakery? It's full of additives. And btw, what's wrong with white bread? Heck, look up the list of ingredients of a typical while Arabic flatbread! You can't go a lot more 'unprocessed' than that where bread is concerned. Whole parts of southern Europe eat white bread, and many people are a heck more healthy than elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with processed, there's nothing wrong with carbs. Eat what you like, but try to get a half good mix of nutrition.
Stop trying to overly dissect what I typed. My point is unprocessed > processed. If you're trying to win that argument you obviously do not understand nutritional value.
Until you can define what constitutes 'processing', neither do you... here's a hint 'unprocessed > processed' is not even close to a universal truth.6 -
*runs in* Some people would say a machine slapping a label on a jar of raw honey means it's processed.
*runs out*
*runs back in* I always read the thread title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice.
*runs out again*8 -
Nothing wrong with carbs. But a lot of carbs in your typical grocery store that are easily accessible tend to be processed, and some people do not seem to understand how to discern between wholesome unprocessed carbs (steel cut oats, vegetables, etc) vs your typical white bread or cookies.
You keep on talking about 'processed' as if it's something bad. Have you ever looked up the list of ingredients from an 'honest' wholegrain bread sold at a bakery? It's full of additives. And btw, what's wrong with white bread? Heck, look up the list of ingredients of a typical while Arabic flatbread! You can't go a lot more 'unprocessed' than that where bread is concerned. Whole parts of southern Europe eat white bread, and many people are a heck more healthy than elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with processed, there's nothing wrong with carbs. Eat what you like, but try to get a half good mix of nutrition.
Stop trying to overly dissect what I typed. My point is unprocessed > processed. If you're trying to win that argument you obviously do not understand nutritional value.
Until you can define what constitutes 'processing', neither do you... here's a hint 'unprocessed > processed' is not even close to a universal truth.
I'm currently eating highly processed food as 'good' food caused a rather bad flare-up of reflux. Eggs, certain vegetables and fruits, lean chicken, good green or rooibos tea can all be triggers for me. So at the moment I'm my dinner is precooked potatoes with onion and bacon that I'm frying in a pan, with a microwave meal of deepfried sausage with ketchup-curry sauce (it's a local thing), and tinned peas and carrots. Lunch is a highly processed bread as my normal one doesn't work, instead of a fresh young low-fat quark cheese I eat factory gouda. And inbetween meals I dip my finger into a jar of liquorice root extract powder. Just because the so-called good food made me sick.6 -
Nothing wrong with carbs. But a lot of carbs in your typical grocery store that are easily accessible tend to be processed, and some people do not seem to understand how to discern between wholesome unprocessed carbs (steel cut oats, vegetables, etc) vs your typical white bread or cookies.
You keep on talking about 'processed' as if it's something bad. Have you ever looked up the list of ingredients from an 'honest' wholegrain bread sold at a bakery? It's full of additives. And btw, what's wrong with white bread? Heck, look up the list of ingredients of a typical while Arabic flatbread! You can't go a lot more 'unprocessed' than that where bread is concerned. Whole parts of southern Europe eat white bread, and many people are a heck more healthy than elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with processed, there's nothing wrong with carbs. Eat what you like, but try to get a half good mix of nutrition.
Stop trying to overly dissect what I typed. My point is unprocessed > processed. If you're trying to win that argument you obviously do not understand nutritional value.
Technically, if I pluck an organic strawberry from my garden, stem it, and freeze it, I have processed it.
That's why here on MFP I say "Ultra-processed foods" and give a link to the NOVA classification: https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova4 -
*Sighs heavily.*
Unless it's in the comb, raw honey is processed: Centrifuged, maybe strained, bottled (ignoring the processing the bee does).
That's the issue. There are way too many kinds of "processing". We can be specific about which ones are bad in our opinion. It's not hard to be specific.
I think getting a majority of one's nutrition from foods humans have been eating for centuries and millennia is probably a good idea, nutritionally - I'll call those "traditional foods" for short. There are a bunch of reasons I think that. I don't expect everyone else to agree.
Some of those traditional foods are processed: Cultured, preserved, heated, frozen, dried, ground, distilled, strained, etc.
Consider tofu: Soybeans are dried, soaked, crushed, boiled, separated, chemicals (the horrors!) are put in to coagulate it, then it's drained. That's pretty highly processed. Does that make tofu non-nutritious or a bad food source? Personally, I don't think so. People have been eating it for centuries, seemingly doing OK.
Processing foods to take out most of their useful nutrients is generally not helpful nutritionally, sure. Some modern manufactured food products take that sort of thing to an extreme. I'd call those "highly processed" though that might not be the standard definition of that term (as if there were a standard definition . . .🤣 - well, there's the NOVA classification system **).
I still don't think the average person is going to jeopardize their health if they eat a couple of grocery store cookies, or a Big Mac, now and then, in an overall context where they get the macronutrients and micronutrients modern nutritional science recommends on average over a day or few, especially if there's some traditional foods in the mix, including simple foods like veggies/fruits/whole grains as a bet-hedge for nutrients science hasn't discovered yet.
"Don't eat processed foods" is IMO just another silly oversimplification like "shop the perimeter of the grocery store" that assumes people generally are idiots, and not capable of understanding nutritional basics.
I think most people are capable of understanding, already have most of the knowledge they need - though sometimes threads like this make me question that last bit. However, many people are making different choices, choosing questionably-nutritious or very calorie-dense foods in a lot of cases. Yes, those choices have consequences, and not always wonderful ones. Making up quasi-religious eating rules like "unprocessed > processed" or "carbs are bad for people" . . . that doesn't help anything.
** The NOVA classification system: https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf
Forty eight pages of definition, basically, trying to get at the actual nutrition/health implications. From its intro:Food processing in itself is not the issue. One obvious reason is that nowadays, practically all
food is processed in some sense and in some way. The term ‘processing’ (like the term ‘industry’) is very general and therefore not helpful, and so judgements of foods simply
because they are ‘processed’ are not meaningful. Further, attempts to distinguish between
different types of processing by using undefined terms such as ‘fast’, ‘convenience’, or ‘junk’
food, cannot be the basis of scientific assessment.
Yet here we are, arguing about "processed" foods, again.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Nothing wrong with carbs. But a lot of carbs in your typical grocery store that are easily accessible tend to be processed, and some people do not seem to understand how to discern between wholesome unprocessed carbs (steel cut oats, vegetables, etc) vs your typical white bread or cookies.
You keep on talking about 'processed' as if it's something bad. Have you ever looked up the list of ingredients from an 'honest' wholegrain bread sold at a bakery? It's full of additives. And btw, what's wrong with white bread? Heck, look up the list of ingredients of a typical while Arabic flatbread! You can't go a lot more 'unprocessed' than that where bread is concerned. Whole parts of southern Europe eat white bread, and many people are a heck more healthy than elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with processed, there's nothing wrong with carbs. Eat what you like, but try to get a half good mix of nutrition.
Stop trying to overly dissect what I typed. My point is unprocessed > processed. If you're trying to win that argument you obviously do not understand nutritional value.
Technically, if I pluck an organic strawberry from my garden, stem it, and freeze it, I have processed it.
That's why here on MFP I say "Ultra-processed foods" and give a link to the NOVA classification: https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova
LOL, synchronicity? You posted while I was typing. 😉1 -
*Sighs heavily.*
Unless it's in the comb, raw honey is processed: Centrifuged, maybe strained, bottled (ignoring the processing the bee does).
Yet here we are, arguing about "processed" foods, again.
LOL I knew I should have put the disclaimer. I don't eat honey (unless it's honey flavored...ooooo honeycomb!) and kinda just plucked that food/ingredient out of....er...thin air. So kinda just took a shot.
But good to know because you'd think raw means just that.
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Regarding food processing - here’s a random thought. Food processing evolved as a way to store food from bountiful seasons for hungry seasons. I freeze veg, have pickled eggs in the past (although I don’t like them so stopped 🤣), make chutney to use up green tomatoes, make jam with overripe fruit, make apple crumbles with dodgy windfalls… you get the picture. So good processing has been around as long as we have. And sometimes I even (shock horror) eat chocolate, store bought biscuits and cakes (and I eat a lot of homemade flapjack using refined sugar because, frankly, it is delicious). So processing does not mean bad. As with everything in life, moderation and variety is good for you.
And back to carbs: I love them, eat tonnes of them and have c20-22% body fat (not bad for a 47 year old woman). They are NOT bad for you!4 -
claireychn074 wrote: »So processing does not mean bad.
ABSOLUTELY THIS. I'm pretty sure most people are quite thankful that their tap/drinking water is processed. I'd be willing to bet a nasty case of dysentery would change the mind of anyone arguing that ALL processing is bad...
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There is a wide range of processing from very little to ultra processed. A person needs to evaluate each food in terms of what works for them and is sustainable. There is a huge difference between flash freezing broccoli straight from the farm and what goes into making an oreo cookie and what nutritional value each brings to the table. In my opinion a minimally processed as close to whole food approach is probably ideal whether your way of eating is LCHF or something else. I know when I mention something processed it is in terms of the food industry making some frankenfood stuff so I probably need to post something like heavily processed, ultra processed, or just say junk food moving forward. Don't be a "Junk Food Junkie"1
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Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Oreos have protein! And are vegan ( I think). And have a gluten free version.
They're practically a health food.
And, as some of us just learned, healthy foods can be processed 😀2 -
How did we get from carbs to processed foods? So many carbs available that aren't processed food, and so many processed foods that aren't carbs/high carb.
(rhetorical question obviously, I read the previous posts so I know how we got to that point in the conversation, but the aspect processed or not is really nothing to do with whether or not carbs are good for us)
Another high carb eater here (both processed as well as unprocessed) and zero problems. I would even think I'd be in trouble eating low carb if I wanted to keep up my exercise activities.2 -
How did we get from carbs to processed foods? So many carbs available that aren't processed food, and so many processed foods that aren't carbs/high carb.
(rhetorical question obviously, I read the previous posts so I know how we got to that point in the conversation, but the aspect processed or not is really nothing to do with whether or not carbs are good for us)
Another high carb eater here (both processed as well as unprocessed) and zero problems. I would even think I'd be in trouble eating low carb if I wanted to keep up my exercise activities.
Was it because of me? I get defensive over the whole processed is bad thing.
Carbs are not bad. Carbs are my life. Carbs have not killed me yet (and I'm old).4 -
cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
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claireychn074 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
Oreos taste like nothing to be honest. Just sugar and a hint of cocoa. I'm totally into Dutch cookies: Bokkepootjes, eierkoeken, roze koeken, and my personal favourite: bitterkoeken (sticky almond paste cookies)2 -
claireychn074 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
Not even that, IMO. Two rounds of dark brown fiberboard, filled with deminted dollar store toothpaste. I don't understand about Oreos. Smashed up, they're OK in something like ice cream, but wouldn't be my top choice there, either.0 -
claireychn074 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
Never said they were classy.
Crumbled Oreo pieces on vanilla ice cream with fresh strawberries is one of my favorite treats. I buy just the pieces or sometimes a dollar store pack of Oreos.
I think there was a million-page thread about Oreos a long time back on MFP - it's a polarizing topic!1 -
cmriverside wrote: »claireychn074 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
Never said they were classy.
Crumbled Oreo pieces on vanilla ice cream with fresh strawberries is one of my favorite treats. I buy just the pieces or sometimes a dollar store pack of Oreos.
I think there was a million-page thread about Oreos a long time back on MFP - it's a polarizing topic!
When I get frozen yogurt, I always top it with the Oreo pieces.
I've been buying knock off sandwich cookies from the There Are Still 99 Cent Items Here and the They Should Change The Name To The $1.25 Store and you can definitely tell the diffrrence. The knock off Oreos are more cocoa...ey and less sweet. Same with the vanilla and probably lemon but those work better.2 -
I like cookies. The cookies I like are 50% fats and 50% carbs. I guess they fit equally not well in both low carb and low fat diets! They don't fit very well in my caloric budget... not in the quantity I would prefer to consume them at!
I was recently asked if I wanted the cookie or pretzel option. To those in the "know" this would be 15 pretzels or ONE cookie. Used to be TWO (different) cookies. Caloric count is 50 vs 80. You can only make one cookie last soooooo long
Oh... the pretzels are mini pretzels... it is very entertaining trying to double check whether you got 14 or 16 especially if there are a few broken ones in there.
Hmmm.... that's not the amount of cookies I would eat out of a box at home
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claireychn074 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Wait.
Oreos?
Thanks. Now I want an Oreo.
Okay I’m going to be really contentious and unpopular here but… Oreos? Meh. Just an average biscuit. Now a Fox’s Chocolate Round - THAT is a classy biccie.
Not even that, IMO. Two rounds of dark brown fiberboard, filled with deminted dollar store toothpaste. I don't understand about Oreos. Smashed up, they're OK in something like ice cream, but wouldn't be my top choice there, either.
If you put it that way, they sound terrible. But why did my mint toothpaste never ever taste good dunked in milk?
I used to love Oreos.
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littlegreenparrot1 wrote: »Carbs are not bad, it drives me up the blinkin wall.
It is the quantity that can be the issue, and part of that for me is what 'type' of carb your talking about. I prefer porridge for breakfast or wholemeal toast. Both of those things are carbs, both will fill me with a reasonable portion size. I could however happily eat about 28 danish pastries
It wasn't baked potatoes or wholemeal bread that got me into a pickle. It was whole packets of chocolate biscuits and cakes. (I do understand that other people may not have quite an issue, so for them it wouldn't matter)
I really am not on board with anyone who starts to try to tell me that a bowl of porridge and an apple is somehow a 'bad' way to start my day. It might not work for them, but they can bog off lecturing me about it. You might choose to be less grumpy explaining that to your certain someone
^^I thought you wrote it " drives you up a BIKINI wall" ! 😂0
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