Is the set-point theory real?

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jornelas6115
jornelas6115 Posts: 1 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
So I'm 23(M), and I have gone through two periods of a calorie deficit using MFP (May/June 2021) and again (May/June 2022). Both times, the first 4-5 weeks I was losing anywhere between 1-2lbs per week, but for both last summer and currently, I stalled in weight loss (according to the scale anyway) at the same range (194-196 lbs). I found this phenomenon interesting, it may just have been a weird coincidence, but does anyone know anything about a set-point? Is it a common culprit for experiencing weight-loss plateaus? Any input is appreciated

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  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,996 Member
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    and yet people in POW camps, who previously had been at various weights, did not lose weight and then stop at that set point.
    They cant all have had a set point at BMI's of, I dont know, 16 or so.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,612 Member
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    People tend to misunderstand setpoint, but yes, they are real. Your body will try to maintain certain weights it has become accustomed to by increasing/decreasing your hunger and increasing/decreasing unconscious body movements such as fidgeting more or less, walking a bit faster/slower. However, you can still lose weight if you make sure you are in a calorie deficit (which I think is what paperpudding was trying to say)
  • threewins
    threewins Posts: 1,455 Member
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    I had a set point in my teens and up until the age of about 25. That means I never dieted, I never got chubbier, I never knew my weight (I probably weighed myself once every 3 years, I remember trying out a digital scale back in 1987, one of the early models), I never got thinner. What would cause this miraculous stability? Set point, the regulation of my appetite by hormones created by fat cells and other mechanisms in my body.

    >is it a common culprit for experiencing weight-loss plateaus?

    In my opinion, probably not. I think that the set point mechanism stops working the way it should once you hit 25-30, almost always it boosts appetite. Which is what you'd expect in our yummy food environment. It may be that your appetite increases once you hit a certain weight, which is what you'd expect, since the appetite suppressing hormone reduces as you lose fat. That's part of the setpoint mechanism but I think that once you start gaining weight, you can assume that the setpoint regulation system is broken and unlikely to start working again.

    All in my opinion, of course. There are some people who have a constant weight. My girlfriend is one of those people. But I can't help but think her use of dried/grilled fish in her diet is being used as an appetite suppressant. If you've ever smelled dried fish, you'll understand.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    I have to wonder why people often seem to think set points happen on the way down, but not so often on the way up in weight?

    No, I don't think they're a major factor. I think homeostasis is real, but limited in impact. I think pleasant/tolerable/sustainable habits are the main mechanism behind steady-ish weight, and that weird water weight and adaptive thermogenesis effects can contribute to perceived plateaus during weight loss, along with over-religious belief in "calorie calculators" and fitness trackers, plus logging accuracy issues.

    Human bodies are dynamic, and kinda weird. Calories in affect calories out. Most weight loss tactics (calorie cuts, exercise) are physical stressors, and cumulative stress can increase water retention. It can be complicated, and the more extreme the tactics, the weirder things get. As background:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1
    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10683010/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-fluctuations/p1
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1
  • MsCzar
    MsCzar Posts: 1,042 Member
    edited June 2022
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    There are several recent studies that suggest that our bodies allocate calories differently depending on age, weight, BMI, activity level and history of obesity (existing fat cells). Two men of the same age weighing 90kg each will process excess calories differently if one man had previously spent years weighing 110kg while the other never weighed more than 90kg. It isn't that the first man has a set point of 110kg; it is just that his default use of any excess calories is 'fat storage first' until 110kg is restored. The key words being 'excess calories.'
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,996 Member
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    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    People tend to misunderstand setpoint, but yes, they are real. Your body will try to maintain certain weights it has become accustomed to by increasing/decreasing your hunger and increasing/decreasing unconscious body movements such as fidgeting more or less, walking a bit faster/slower. However, you can still lose weight if you make sure you are in a calorie deficit (which I think is what paperpudding was trying to say)


    No that isnt what I was trying to say at all and I don't agree with that

    What I was saying is that real life examples, like POW's, show that set point is not real - or all those men would not have lost weight to the low BMI's they did.

    They cant have all had set points of BMI's 16 or so after being normal weights before their long enforced calorie deficits.
  • NVintage
    NVintage Posts: 1,463 Member
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    **From my own experience**, I do think it is real..not that you can't override it with eating healthy and exercise. & maybe why it's so hard to lose weight after pregnancy. I feel like my body wanted, so hard, to maintain the 25 lbs I gained. Also, I took part in a walking research study, but ate whatever I wanted for 2 or 3 months. I ended the experiment weighing exactly what I did before. Apparently, I ate the exact number of extra calories to make up for the calories burned from the extra walking! *No scientific proof*, but I feel like my body has a new set point since I've stayed so long at my current weight.
  • NVintage
    NVintage Posts: 1,463 Member
    edited June 2022
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    Since body weight is a major determinant of health, the regulation and preservation of body composition are life-saving issues. The central nervous system and peripheral systems regulate energy and nutrient balance by biological and behavioral mechanisms. Short-term controls include the initiation and termination of feeding (e.g., brought about by gastrointestinal signals), whereas long-term control of body weight is related to changes in energy balance and energy stores. Efficiency of body weight regulation is dominated by both sides of the energy balance (both energy intake and energy expenditure), which are functionally interconnected. Thus, increases in either food intake or energy expenditure are associated with corresponding changes in metabolism and behavior. Overeating is followed by increases in thermogenesis, whereas increases in energy expenditure (e.g., due to strenuous exercise) affect food intake. The general idea is that human body weight is under sufficiently strong genetic and humoral control, a view inspired by the theory of the so-called ‘set point’. This theory proposes a proportional feedback control system designed to regulate body weight to a constant ‘body-inherent’ weight, namely the set point weight [1]. The system, according to this theory, adjusts food intake or energy expenditure (or both) in proportion to the difference between the current body weight and the set point weight. The set point theory originated from animal studies [2] and ever since has been questioned in humans.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/
    ;)
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,612 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    People tend to misunderstand setpoint, but yes, they are real. Your body will try to maintain certain weights it has become accustomed to by increasing/decreasing your hunger and increasing/decreasing unconscious body movements such as fidgeting more or less, walking a bit faster/slower. However, you can still lose weight if you make sure you are in a calorie deficit (which I think is what paperpudding was trying to say)


    No that isnt what I was trying to say at all and I don't agree with that

    What I was saying is that real life examples, like POW's, show that set point is not real - or all those men would not have lost weight to the low BMI's they did.

    They cant have all had set points of BMI's 16 or so after being normal weights before their long enforced calorie deficits.

    Fair enough, you're allowed to have your own opinions. Thanks for clarifying.
  • zebasschick
    zebasschick Posts: 909 Member
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    here's what the national institute of health has to say about it
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
    edited June 2022
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    zebasschick wrote: »
    here's what the national institute of health has to say about it
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/

    That's a really good, informative overview of the factors, IMO. It doesn't necessarily let us off the hook, but does explain some of the mechanisms that subjectively make make it seem like reaching weight management goals may be difficult/impossible.

    ETA P.S. I learned some interesting new factoids along the way in there, a thing that makes me happy. Thanks!
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    I don't think it's real in the sense of the way people use the term. Kind of like "starvation mode" is a misused/understood biological process.

    The human body strives for homeostasis so where weightloss is concerned, the body will put up a fight through biological process which can make things more difficult. Increased hunger signals combined with the body slowing down involuntary functions like fidgeting and slowing other biological processes like growing hair or fingernails and increased fatigue to reduce energy expenditure for example.

    Also, as you shrink your calorie requirements, all things being equal activity wise, also shrink and one's calorie deficit becomes smaller which leaves less room for error or depending on how much weight has been lost may eliminate the deficit altogether if that target hasn't been adjusted.

    Also consider that when people do something for a long time they can also get a little sloppy or more careless. When I was initially losing my 40 Lbs I noticed I would hit a sticky point every 10 Lbs or so where things wouldn't budge. Part of this could have been biological processes at work, but I would also notice that I had gotten a bit sloppy both in terms of diet and my exercise regimen which makes sense considering 10 Lbs or so for me is a good 2.5 months...plenty of time to start slacking on this or that.

    And then there's just diet fatigue. I went to maintenance when I still felt like I could lose a bit more weight, but I was just tired of it all after 8-9 months and things were stalled out. I actually ended up losing a bit more weight going into maintenance which I think is largely due to having more energy in general...which was not something I perceived as lacking before, but I was full of gusto when I started upping my calories. I had become accustomed to some baseline fatigue and that just went away. I also felt better when exercising or recreating...I felt like I was doing more and my output improved for the same activities.

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