Minimalism hmmm...
kellibee2000
Posts: 87 Member
I've recently become interested in minimalism as a mindset for emotional, environmental, physical & financial health. Many mindfulness resources mention only having what you need & love, taking care of yourself & your environment, that are minimalist principles. Are you into it? What is your experience pairing down & focusing on the more simple things in life?
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I pretty much live that way and am very happy with my job, health, workouts, what I actually have and own, and how I eat. Not being materialistic and also not worry about what people think about me helps as well. However I do maximize my offering of help to others and the love and time I spend with family.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I'm a pretty hardcore minimalist. I own very little and keep my life streamlined.
I only own things or do things that contribute to my life being happier and healthier overall.
The things I define as "luxury" aren't consumer goods and services, they're ample time out in nature, quality time with loved ones, and optimal health.
I look at most peoples lives and see chaos, stress, debt, and stuff, and it doesn't look very appealing to me.7 -
@ninerbuff @Xellercin that sounds amazing! Was there a turning point for you before living this way, or was it a more gradual thing? What systems or habits make this lifestyle possible for you? I'm so curious & looking for sustainable ways to start.0
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I have slowly been heading down this path. It started when we sold our house and moved to a smaller house. I realized how much stuff we had. As I boxed things up I got annoyed with finding things we hadn’t touched in a long time and gave them away. I realized that I had been spending time and money organizing stuff. I didn’t want to do that anymore. So now I really think about things before I buy them and bring them into the house. It is a very freeing feeling. I didn’t realize how weighed down objects make you feel. I still have room for growth and will cont to go down this path.4
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I appreciate you sharing, @mlrtri. I'm at that point where I know we have things, I just can't find them with all the other stuff we have, which is seriously annoying. I'm starting small with decluttering & I can't wait to feel some relief 😌0
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kellibee2000 wrote: »@ninerbuff @Xellercin that sounds amazing! Was there a turning point for you before living this way, or was it a more gradual thing? What systems or habits make this lifestyle possible for you? I'm so curious & looking for sustainable ways to start.
No turning point really, and you don't need to make it a complicated or dramatic thing, it can be very simple...which is kind of the point, lol.
It's not so much a lifestyle as it is a perspective.
I just don't see "stuff" as a default source of happiness, nor do I see it as having any reflection on me as a person.
I only own things that substantially improve my life disproportionately to the cost of them. It's not that I don't like things, it's that I'm an extreme snob about value, so few things make the cut.
Every single thing you own creates a burden of ownership. The larger the house you have, the more you have to care for and clean. The larger lawn you have, the more work. The more stuff you have, the more you have to store it, organize it, remember where it is, maintain it, and try to get enough use out of it to justify the amount of work you had to do in order to purchase it.
For some people these things are worth the trade off, but the minimalist assumption is that more is not fundamentally better, more means more work, more obligation. The work has to be worth it. The more has to provide something inaguably superior to the freedom of not having to own it, and freedom is a pretty hard luxury to top.
If you come to this way of thinking, then minimalism becomes automatic and self-sustaining. It takes no discipline and very little effort, because that's the entire point.
It's not minimalism that's difficult and unsustainable, it's spending, owning things, and managing tons of crap that is.
As I said, I didn't really have a turning point, it's more that I was a broke student until my 30s, then made a ton of money and found that spending on stuff felt hollow and crappy, so I just rejected the consumerist lifestyle that everyone pushed me to embrace. I just wasn't having it.
Let me draw a comparison between two scenarios.
Consumerist fun: I had just spent 2.5hrs getting my eyelash extensions done and was about to spend another few hours getting my highlights done. The day before I had gotten a fresh manicure and went shopping and spent a few hours trying on designer clothes. I settled on a cute Michael Kors dress.
I picked up my vintage Jaguar from the dealership where it was yet again being repaired. I went back to my house where I had a dedicated room for my clothes, shoes, and makeup table, I called it my "girl-fort." It's where I would spend an additional few hours getting ready. I would clean up the mess tomorrow.
My spouse and I would then go out for a 5 course meal that we would come away from saying that it was "okay" for the $600 price tag. The service was laid on a bit thick and felt artificial, and some of the courses were experimental for experimental's sake. We mostly talk about the meal and the service. We're pretty sick of talking to each other about our jobs.
By the end of the night my feet hurt from where the stilleto strappy sandals dug into my feet, I was dying to take off my restrictive dress, and wash the spackled layers of makeup off of my face. We woke up the next morning hung over because the wine pairing included a large glass with each course.
The next hungover day consisted of an entire Sunday of cleaning and house management to prepare for the work week.
Total cost: thousands
Ratio of fun to cost: very low
End result: tired, probably a little fatter, hallow feeling of "is this it? Is this supposed to be the good life?"
Minimalist fun:
I take a shower and my short hair dries in about 10 minutes. I apply sunscreen. I throw on merino wool athletic gear and supportive running shoes, because that's what I wear every day. I'm remarkably comfortable.
My spouse and I drive our economy hatchback a few miles, and spend 6 hours wandering the many nature trails around here. We find a great spot with incredible views and have a picnic including fresh baked bread, local cheeses, and fresh local pie.
We both read about 100 books a year in our ample spare time (borrowed from the library), so we have TONS of interesting things to talk about. I talk about the history of food and explain how pie was thought to be the moral downfall of civilization, he talks about global food supply chains, and the fascinating things that impact how food gets to us.
We get home raving about how great the day was, sleep really well thanks to all of the fresh air, and wake up feeling awesome. The apartment is small so takes very little time to clean, most of Sunday is spent relaxed, stretching, reading, and recharging for the week ahead.
Total cost: about $30
Ratio of fun to cost: astronomical
End result: healthier, happier, certain that this *is* the good life
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kellibee2000 wrote: »@ninerbuff @Xellercin that sounds amazing! Was there a turning point for you before living this way, or was it a more gradual thing? What systems or habits make this lifestyle possible for you? I'm so curious & looking for sustainable ways to start.
No turning point really, and you don't need to make it a complicated or dramatic thing, it can be very simple...which is kind of the point, lol.
It's not so much a lifestyle as it is a perspective.
I just don't see "stuff" as a default source of happiness, nor do I see it as having any reflection on me as a person.
I only own things that substantially improve my life disproportionately to the cost of them. It's not that I don't like things, it's that I'm an extreme snob about value, so few things make the cut.
Every single thing you own creates a burden of ownership. The larger the house you have, the more you have to care for and clean. The larger lawn you have, the more work. The more stuff you have, the more you have to store it, organize it, remember where it is, maintain it, and try to get enough use out of it to justify the amount of work you had to do in order to purchase it.
For some people these things are worth the trade off, but the minimalist assumption is that more is not fundamentally better, more means more work, more obligation. The work has to be worth it. The more has to provide something inaguably superior to the freedom of not having to own it, and freedom is a pretty hard luxury to top.
If you come to this way of thinking, then minimalism becomes automatic and self-sustaining. It takes no discipline and very little effort, because that's the entire point.
It's not minimalism that's difficult and unsustainable, it's spending, owning things, and managing tons of crap that is.
As I said, I didn't really have a turning point, it's more that I was a broke student until my 30s, then made a ton of money and found that spending on stuff felt hollow and crappy, so I just rejected the consumerist lifestyle that everyone pushed me to embrace. I just wasn't having it.
Let me draw a comparison between two scenarios.
Consumerist fun: I had just spent 2.5hrs getting my eyelash extensions done and was about to spend another few hours getting my highlights done. The day before I had gotten a fresh manicure and went shopping and spent a few hours trying on designer clothes. I settled on a cute Michael Kors dress.
I picked up my vintage Jaguar from the dealership where it was yet again being repaired. I went back to my house where I had a dedicated room for my clothes, shoes, and makeup table, I called it my "girl-fort." It's where I would spend an additional few hours getting ready. I would clean up the mess tomorrow.
My spouse and I would then go out for a 5 course meal that we would come away from saying that it was "okay" for the $600 price tag. The service was laid on a bit thick and felt artificial, and some of the courses were experimental for experimental's sake. We mostly talk about the meal and the service. We're pretty sick of talking to each other about our jobs.
By the end of the night my feet hurt from where the stilleto strappy sandals dug into my feet, I was dying to take off my restrictive dress, and wash the spackled layers of makeup off of my face. We woke up the next morning hung over because the wine pairing included a large glass with each course.
The next hungover day consisted of an entire Sunday of cleaning and house management to prepare for the work week.
Total cost: thousands
Ratio of fun to cost: very low
End result: tired, probably a little fatter, hallow feeling of "is this it? Is this supposed to be the good life?"
Minimalist fun:
I take a shower and my short hair dries in about 10 minutes. I apply sunscreen. I throw on merino wool athletic gear and supportive running shoes, because that's what I wear every day. I'm remarkably comfortable.
My spouse and I drive our economy hatchback a few miles, and spend 6 hours wandering the many nature trails around here. We find a great spot with incredible views and have a picnic including fresh baked bread, local cheeses, and fresh local pie.
We both read about 100 books a year in our ample spare time (borrowed from the library), so we have TONS of interesting things to talk about. I talk about the history of food and explain how pie was thought to be the moral downfall of civilization, he talks about global food supply chains, and the fascinating things that impact how food gets to us.
We get home raving about how great the day was, sleep really well thanks to all of the fresh air, and wake up feeling awesome. The apartment is small so takes very little time to clean, most of Sunday is spent relaxed, stretching, reading, and recharging for the week ahead.
Total cost: about $30
Ratio of fun to cost: astronomical
End result: healthier, happier, certain that this *is* the good life
Love everything about this. You are fortunate that your husband shared your desire for minimalism. I’ve always been fairly minimalistic, but I’ve lately gotten to where I only want the necessities with a few nice to haves. I’ve just become an empty nester and we’ve moved into a small apartment. I want to start traveling in my van more. So I pretty much pared my stuff down to what could fit in a van. We have two rooms full of my husband’s stuff still in boxes. It’s driving me batty. I’m not sentimental and he is, so he wants to keep everything , even things like the nasty cast from our son’s arm when he was two. I want more experiences and less stuff. And I guess I don’t need stuff to remind me of the experience. I figure that’s what pictures and video is for.2 -
mom23mangos wrote: »Love everything about this. You are fortunate that your husband shared your desire for minimalism. I’ve always been fairly minimalistic, but I’ve lately gotten to where I only want the necessities with a few nice to haves. I’ve just become an empty nester and we’ve moved into a small apartment. I want to start traveling in my van more. So I pretty much pared my stuff down to what could fit in a van. We have two rooms full of my husband’s stuff still in boxes. It’s driving me batty. I’m not sentimental and he is, so he wants to keep everything , even things like the nasty cast from our son’s arm when he was two. I want more experiences and less stuff. And I guess I don’t need stuff to remind me of the experience. I figure that’s what pictures and video is for.
He didn't, it was a process that we worked out over time.
We spent A LOT of time walking and talking about life, happiness, our visions for what our ideal lives would look like, and the value of every trade off that we could possibly make in our lives.
I personally question literally *everything* that is assumed to be a given about what we're supposed to want in life and we talked through literally everything.
For everything that he believed he needed or wanted, I explored what the alternative would be and what he is trading off to have those things.
However, this was never with the intention to convince him to do anything, it was with the intention of better understanding him so that we could work together to figure out what the best life choices for *both* of us are.
If a room full of stuff is truly the way for your husband to be happiest in life and worth every trade off required to have it, then why would you want him to give that up?? No loving spouse would.
The key is to find a way for both of you to understand what life would really make both of you optimally happy and healthy. And that's not a quick or easy process.
We didn't end up minimalists because one of us decided that's what we should do. We naturally ended up minimalists by exploring our true values and needs and logically concluding over time that consumerism sucks to meet those needs.
We went from BOTH wanting a bigger house and two luxury cars to downsizing to a very small apartment.
Yes, we both would have enjoyed a bigger, more luxurious house and high performance cars, especially a convertible for the summer. There's no question that we wanted those things for perfectly valid reasons.
But through exploring our *most* important needs and priorities, we found that being healthy, really fit, having low stress, plenty of free time, good relationships with loved ones, and a fantastic marriage were more attractive priorities than a big fancy house and luxury cars.
The lifestyle trade offs to get the consumer goods were too costly in terms of our bigger priorities.
And the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We're both leaner and fitter than we were in our 20s, we both LOVE our work, we have an exquisitely enjoyable marriage, excellent friendships and family relationships, and a life that many around us openly envy.
We couldn't have achieved that by prioritizing consumerism. We would have had to stay in or pursue jobs that would have made our ideal lifestyle impossible.
As we made the trade offs to build our more ideal lives, we came to love the options that allow us to live better. We LOVE our apartment because it's small size makes it so easy to maintain, and we don't have to waste our time with snow removal (Canadian, this is a big deal).
We LOVE our little economy hatchback because it's cheap on gas, easy to park, and we don't worry about it getting scratched up because we take it on all sorts of dirt roads and haul bikes with it.
We LOVE having a minimalist wardrobe because we don't have to think about what to wear every day and are literally always dressed appropriately for getting outdoors and being active. I used to be super into fashion, but now even if I could afford a giant walk-in closet of couture, I wouldn't bother because I prefer feeling comfortable and being ready to do something outdoorsy without having to change.
These are things we needed *to learn* about ourselves and each other.
It's a constant process of trial and error. Some things we tried we bailed on almost immediately. I DO NOT make my own yogurt, however, I do make my own bread. Go figure.
We avoid most consumer goods, but we both have at least 7 pairs of wireless headphones because we both listen to an insane amount of audiobooks while doing other things. We don't hesitate for a second to purchase items that would contribute substantially to our overall vision of an ideal life, but that bar is very high.
My husband is far more sentimental than I am about saving items, like yours, but we implemented a system that he has to actually go through them regularly and enjoy the nostalgia. If the items truly bring him joy, he needs to engage with them, they are useless sitting in a box that never gets opened.
I'm not against him keeping keepsakes, but I am against giving them free rent and never actually being used. If something lives in our house, it has to bring tangible value. Basically, everything needs to pay rent in order to stay.
If my husband had a room full of boxes he never even engaged with, I would start by "dream building" with him what we would do if we had an extra room in our house that we could do anything he wanted with.
What about a really nice home gym? A hobby room? A plant nursery? A meditation or reading room? Or maybe even making the room a shrine to your favourite keepsakes?
Put in some cozy seating and fill the rest of the room with shelving and display cases of all of the most beloved items in those boxes? If that doesn't appeal to him, then what is he actually getting from owning those things??3 -
@mom23mangos I had to laugh at your comment about the cast. Our daughter (who is now 45!) also broke her arm at 2 & I had the cast for a long time. I think I got rid of it when we moved 5 years ago, lol.
@Xellercin I have been thinking about living more simply with less “stuff”, so your post gave me a lot to think about! Thanks!1 -
I definitely recommend going minimalist. Living this lifestyle has only led to positive benefits for my household.
Everyone defines minimalism a little differently but for me it's about optimization and mobility. My stuff is optimized in the sense that everything I have is something that I use. And everything I have is easily movable. My partner and I can pack up our whole apartment in an evening, move everything the next morning without hiring movers, and have everything unpacked by that night.
I used to be ultra minimalist and zero waste for environmental reasons, but after a couple of years I felt like I was missing out on life and went to a more manageable level. Plus during COVID it became impossible to be zero waste due to restrictions, closures, and shortages. Also during COVID I started keeping a decently sized backstock of consumable items, as well as some emergency items for natural disasters and such. So now I would say I'm a minimalist in moderation and not really eco-friendly anymore.
I wanted to enjoy my wardrobe again instead of choosing clothing items based on whether they were made of natural fibers or not. I wanted to try out different skincare products because I was having some skin problems. I wanted to get some new decor because my style had changed, and buy new instead of secondhand because I wasn't really into the vintage style anymore. I wanted to enjoy shopping again. I wanted to use more budget-friendly products. Now I do all of those things but I also don't go out and buy a ton of stuff I don't need. It's actually pretty rare now for me to declutter (apart from items that are worn out) because my items are so optimized for my needs and tastes. Usually if I declutter something, it was given to me as a gift and not my style, etc.
It's also worth noting that my partner and I both have multiple hoarders in our family and have had to deal with a lot of problems as a result of that (hoarders tend to make their problems, YOUR problem). So my extreme minimalist phase was kind of a reaction to that. I actually was able to influence one of the hoarders in our family to become a lot more minimalist, although it's still going to be quite the cleanout for myself and partner one day. But having to deal with the devastation caused by hoarding/squalor of family members, will definitely change your perspective on stuff a lot.0 -
I pretty much live that way and am very happy with my job, health, workouts, what I actually have and own, and how I eat. Not being materialistic and also not worry about what people think about me helps as well. However I do maximize my offering of help to others and the love and time I spend with family.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I wanna be you when I grow up.
All I can say is I try. I'd love to live much more minimally but every time I start to organize or declutter, I just can't seem to part with 'things'.
And I've been giving it a lot of thought in recent years. Being 68 and seeing the leftover lives that have to be taken care of after one dies, I don't want my kids to have to go through all that. My neighbors' 3 kids took at least 23 truckloads of stuff to the dump. I want to get rid of most of our stuff now.
As for environmental, I am about average. I compost, recycle, don't buy a lot of unnecessary things. My needs are simple, whether it's food, clothing, what have you.
I remember when we had our kitchen renovated last year and I was watching the contractor load his truck up with all the demolition. It made me sick at heart knowing where it was all headed. 0 -
Wow @Xellercin Your posts are exceptional and you said quite a few things I need to remember as I sort through my household and my life.
And having seen the amount of stuff still residing in my sister's home due to her late dh's hoarding, it definitely creates a sense of chaos owning stuff that simply sits there, serves no purpose, has to be dealt with at some time by someone. And my parents were collectors, because 'you never know when you might need something'. It wasn't much fun clearing out their attic and basement.
Was there any need to keep that dirty old shag carpet from 1980?
Ex. I had an in-home daycare for 40 years. Anything to do with the state requires so dang much paperwork. I still have tax folders and paperwork left from families whose children must be almost grandparents by now.
Yep, time to take one thing, one space, at a time and deal with it.1 -
I am helping my elderly aunt move out of a 1,500 foot house (so not overwhelmingly large, but good size) to a sr community near me. She will be in a 650 sq ft 1 bed apt. She has already downsized once, and there is no nice way to put this .. she is not going to be moving from this apartment into bigger housing. She is fighting me every step of the way and insists that 10 sets of dishware service for 12 will fit in a galley kitchen (never mind that 12 people won’t fit in the apartment) and that her large living room furniture will fit in the small open plan combined living/dining space in the new place together with a full size dining room set, china cabinet, book cases, etc. After many months I have finally persuaded her that she can’t bring a grand piano. I am not kidding about a single bit of this.
Every one of her friends, her neighbors, the realtors, the movers, have tried to help but she is unpersuadable. She will be across the country when all these things arrive and there is no storage for them. Self storage costs as much per month as her rent in order to store even half of what I am mentioning. And for what purpose. The items are good quality and could be sold or donated but she won’t part with them. She walks with a walker/wheelchair so won’t be able to get in and out of her apartment or safely maneuver in it if even a fraction of these things are moved in.
I am feeling my blood pressure rise and my anxiety spike even as I type and think about how I will deal with this and her subsequent anger.2 -
Lol, when I got rid of basically all my debt which was about 15 years ago! The freedom you feel from not owing anyone and not under any pressure to make money to pay off anyone made a big difference. It allowed me to think of what I really NEEDED versus wanted. And the more time passed, I just got what I needed. Now there are exceptions because I do love sports and buy jerseys and hats, but that's the high end of my expense when it comes to spending. Other than that, I focus more on what is better for my health and how I can spend more time with my daughter.kellibee2000 wrote: »@ninerbuff @Xellercin that sounds amazing! Was there a turning point for you before living this way, or was it a more gradual thing? What systems or habits make this lifestyle possible for you? I'm so curious & looking for sustainable ways to start.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Wow @Xellercin Your posts are exceptional and you said quite a few things I need to remember as I sort through my household and my life.
And having seen the amount of stuff still residing in my sister's home due to her late dh's hoarding, it definitely creates a sense of chaos owning stuff that simply sits there, serves no purpose, has to be dealt with at some time by someone. And my parents were collectors, because 'you never know when you might need something'. It wasn't much fun clearing out their attic and basement. Was there any need to keep that dirty old shag carpet from 1980?
Ex. I had an in-home daycare for 40 years. Anything to do with the state requires so dang much paperwork. I still have tax folders and paperwork left from families whose children must be almost grandparents by now.
Yep, time to take one thing, one space, at a time and deal with it.
It's a process and you just have to keep moving forward. One step at a time.0 -
I pretty much live that way and am very happy with my job, health, workouts, what I actually have and own, and how I eat. Not being materialistic and also not worry about what people think about me helps as well. However I do maximize my offering of help to others and the love and time I spend with family.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I wanna be you when I grow up.
All I can say is I try. I'd love to live much more minimally but every time I start to organize or declutter, I just can't seem to part with 'things'. And I've been giving it a lot of thought in recent years. Being 68 and seeing the leftover lives that have to be taken care of after one dies, I don't want my kids to have to go through all that. My neighbors' 3 kids took at least 23 truckloads of stuff to the dump. I want to get rid of most of our stuff now.
As for environmental, I am about average. I compost, recycle, don't buy a lot of unnecessary things. My needs are simple, whether it's food, clothing, what have you.
I remember when we had our kitchen renovated last year and I was watching the contractor load his truck up with all the demolition. It made me sick at heart knowing where it was all headed.
But you don't have to get rid of all of your things, it's not an all-or-nothing thing, it's a steady process.
Just be honest with yourself about what an item actually does for your life. A keepsake that lives in a box and is never seen is functionally no different than if it ended up in a landfill.
If an item isn't doing something to add to your quality of life, then it's just garbage you keep in your home.
Try not to think about items in terms of owning them vs not owning them, try to think about them in terms of them being useful or not useful.
If a item truly makes you happy to see it, then why would you store it in a box where you never see it. If it's actually valuable, then don't treat it like useless garbage.
Also, don't start with the stuff that's hardest to let go of, that's just crazy. I'm sure you have a ton of stuff in your house that is neither useful nor sentimental. Start with that crap.
Like old, worn clothing items that you don't love at all, but keep because they still fit and look "okay." Most people have these...why? They just make it harder to find something you want to wear.3 -
We moved from a 3,800 sq ft house to a 2,000 sq ft 140 year old farmhouse with no storage space. That kick started my path toward minimal living. If we hadn’t used it recently I didn’t bring it to the new (old) house. I think about things more before I buy them. Do I need it, will I use it, how often? Cleaning is much easier. The hardest thing to figure out what to do with was kitchen items. I don’t use a big roaster often but I do every year during holidays. I don’t use a waffle maker often, but I do use it. I opted to have a cabinet in the basement for a few of those items. I didn’t keep them in the kitchen. The kitchen is for things used frequently. I wish I had family close then we could just share those kind of items. My mom said her mom and sisters used to share things. That would be nice. I don’t need to personally own everything but it would be nice to have access to it. I also had a difficult time getting rid of my kids old toys. But once they were gone (I tried to give them to kids we knew which helped) I am fine. The few things I did keep are special. And I know right where they are. They aren’t in a box in storage somewhere. We now live on acres of land and spend a lot of time outside. We gained a lot by downsizing.1
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All I can say is I try. I'd love to live much more minimally but every time I start to organize or declutter, I just can't seem to part with 'things'. And I've been giving it a lot of thought in recent years. Being 68 and seeing the leftover lives that have to be taken care of after one dies, I don't want my kids to have to go through all that. My neighbors' 3 kids took at least 23 truckloads of stuff to the dump. I want to get rid of most of our stuff now.
This sounds a little morbid, but it's actually traditional in Sweden to do this thing called "death cleaning" which is basically decluttering and downsizing as you're going into old age so that your loved ones won't have to do a huge cleanout when the time comes. There's a lot of videos online explaining how to do it.Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »I am helping my elderly aunt move out of a 1,500 foot house (so not overwhelmingly large, but good size) to a sr community near me. She will be in a 650 sq ft 1 bed apt. She has already downsized once, and there is no nice way to put this .. she is not going to be moving from this apartment into bigger housing. She is fighting me every step of the way and insists that 10 sets of dishware service for 12 will fit in a galley kitchen (never mind that 12 people won’t fit in the apartment) and that her large living room furniture will fit in the small open plan combined living/dining space in the new place together with a full size dining room set, china cabinet, book cases, etc. After many months I have finally persuaded her that she can’t bring a grand piano. I am not kidding about a single bit of this.
Every one of her friends, her neighbors, the realtors, the movers, have tried to help but she is unpersuadable. She will be across the country when all these things arrive and there is no storage for them. Self storage costs as much per month as her rent in order to store even half of what I am mentioning. And for what purpose. The items are good quality and could be sold or donated but she won’t part with them. She walks with a walker/wheelchair so won’t be able to get in and out of her apartment or safely maneuver in it if even a fraction of these things are moved in.
I am feeling my blood pressure rise and my anxiety spike even as I type and think about how I will deal with this and her subsequent anger.
Oh man, I've been there before with certain family members. I've found that you just have to put your foot down and set boundaries. For example, refusing to continue helping them if they won't treat you with respect. Just because she's elderly and disabled, doesn't give her the right to use you as an emotional punching bag. Downsizing is a stressful and time-consuming task and the least she can do is be civil to the people who have been nice enough to help her. It's uncomfortable to set boundaries in the short term but I've found that it leads to an improvement in the hoarding behavior and the behavior toward others. And if you don't set boundaries, well, that's when you end up with things like the person moving into your house and cluttering it, the person forcing you to store their items, the person forcing you to pay huge sums of money out of your own pocket to deal with their stuff, etc.
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kellibee2000 wrote: »I've recently become interested in minimalism as a mindset for emotional, environmental, physical & financial health. Many mindfulness resources mention only having what you need & love, taking care of yourself & your environment, that are minimalist principles. Are you into it? What is your experience pairing down & focusing on the more simple things in life?
I think one of the things that I think about, when minimalism is brought up, is how much class is involved in this.
There is a kind of difference between 'I have a lot of stuff I buy just because it's fun, I like it, I want it' and 'I KEEP a lot of stuff because I literally can't afford to buy a new X if I need one later.'
So paring down what we own that is unnecessary and just taking up mental and physical space and energy? Or one has enough money they COULD buy a new item years from now if they some day actually need it instead of want it? I am all for that. I think that can be very mentally and emotionally positive. I think it can help cut down on a lot of waste and wasted space.
But paring down what stuff we have just to have less stuff, period? That I sometimes don't necessarily agree with, because for a lot of folks, they have clutter because if they own something now, and it's something that CAN be a necessity eventually, and they don't have the money to get a new one? And it WILL matter, if you need it? Then you keep that old one so that if you need it, you've got it.
I guess I kind of think that people have to have a certain level of financial security before they get to experiment with minimalism.
Or, well, they have such intense poverty that you get to experiment with it whether you like it or not, but everyone I know who grew up that way is absolutely NOT minimalist as adults. They don't spend as, hmm, wastefully, as some folks, might be the way to put it? But they still get things they like and want that are frivolous or take up space unnecessarily, etc... They just...I guess I think they seem to enjoy them more, and get more out of them, because they really appreciate them, if that makes sense?
They don't need the act of cutting down on things to really enjoy what they have, because that's already happened to them in their lives, i think.
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I agree. It is a lot easier to "follow a minimalist lifestyle" when money is not a problem than when it is. Letting go of something you can easily buy a newer version of later on when you need it is a lot easier than when you realise it may not be possible to buy it again later on when you need it again. "Minimalism" is often a symptom of consumerism, not a solution.There is a kind of difference between 'I have a lot of stuff I buy just because it's fun, I like it, I want it' and 'I KEEP a lot of stuff because I literally can't afford to buy a new X if I need one later.'2 -
kellibee2000 wrote: »I've recently become interested in minimalism as a mindset for emotional, environmental, physical & financial health. Many mindfulness resources mention only having what you need & love, taking care of yourself & your environment, that are minimalist principles. Are you into it? What is your experience pairing down & focusing on the more simple things in life?
I feel like minimalism advocates give it a lot of attributes that aren't really inherent in minimalism itself, and some even present it as some kind of moral imperative, as if it were inherently more pure and decent to be minimalist. Presumed superiority is never pretty, y'know?
Over a lifetime, people tend to acquire some stuff. How much of it to keep is pretty individual and situational. Deciding to keep more of it doesn't necessarily mean one is not taking care of oneself, or that one is not focusing on the more simple things in life.
It would be the psychological attachment to or detachment from the things that matters more to mental state, I would think? Sure, someone who's constantly chasing acquiring more stuff, thinking the stuff will fill some hole in their lives (or at least detract from the holes) . . . that could be a problem.
I also question that "better for the environment" idea, too. If someone does buy things, get rid of them, rebuy new later when needed, that's worse for the environment than hauling it out of the back of the closet and using it again, I would think?
You're probably gathering that minimalism is not my jam. I'd say I'd even been a minimalist-enabler for more minimalist friends, at times: Sure, I'll lend you my folding card table, event-sized coffee percolator, giant water-bath canning kettle, power sander, blah blah blah . . . many of which I didn't buy, I inherited.
I do get fractious when other people tell me how I will think/feel/behave if I would just follow their preferred lifestyle, that it will improve my quality of life. I'm pretty sure I know more about what I want and how I feel than they do: It's one of my few areas of total expertise, actually.
If someone else prefers to be minimalist, and feels better doing so, yay them. You be you. But I appreciate it when they show me the same courtesy.
Please note: I'm not advocating wild, wasteful unfettered consumerism here. Not even close.
A particular self-considered minimalist friend of mine owns one, maybe two sets of towels. They need to be perfect, pristine (her view), and they also need to be washed in tiny batches often. She discards and buys new if they start getting a little worn looking. Me, I've got close to every towel I've owned in my adult life, a biiig stack. The pristine ones come out for company, and last a long time because of rare use. The raggy ones with strings hanging off the sides do fine for me in between. When they stop being towels, because too worn to be functional, they're rags for a while, and then I toss them with gratitude for their long service (decades!). Every once in a while, I wash a big, efficient batch of towels. I doubt that I've bought more towels in my life than my minimalist friend has. I'm not convinced I use more water/power laundering mine. It's just different.
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@AnnPT77 Well said. Sometimes, buying more is wasting less, even if, such as in the case of towels, we are only talking about soap and water.0
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I think one of the things that I think about, when minimalism is brought up, is how much class is involved in this.
There is a kind of difference between 'I have a lot of stuff I buy just because it's fun, I like it, I want it' and 'I KEEP a lot of stuff because I literally can't afford to buy a new X if I need one later.'
So paring down what we own that is unnecessary and just taking up mental and physical space and energy? Or one has enough money they COULD buy a new item years from now if they some day actually need it instead of want it? I am all for that. I think that can be very mentally and emotionally positive. I think it can help cut down on a lot of waste and wasted space.
But paring down what stuff we have just to have less stuff, period? That I sometimes don't necessarily agree with, because for a lot of folks, they have clutter because if they own something now, and it's something that CAN be a necessity eventually, and they don't have the money to get a new one? And it WILL matter, if you need it? Then you keep that old one so that if you need it, you've got it.
I guess I kind of think that people have to have a certain level of financial security before they get to experiment with minimalism.
Or, well, they have such intense poverty that you get to experiment with it whether you like it or not, but everyone I know who grew up that way is absolutely NOT minimalist as adults. They don't spend as, hmm, wastefully, as some folks, might be the way to put it? But they still get things they like and want that are frivolous or take up space unnecessarily, etc... They just...I guess I think they seem to enjoy them more, and get more out of them, because they really appreciate them, if that makes sense?
They don't need the act of cutting down on things to really enjoy what they have, because that's already happened to them in their lives, i think.
I see this argument come up sometimes and I think it's a misrepresentation. Poor people can benefit from minimalism too. The more stuff you have, the more space you need to store it in, which increases housing costs, which costs more than almost anything. Also, if you have an unstable housing situation due to poverty, which most poor people do, owning a bunch of stuff just creates an additional complication if you need to move quickly or end up temporarily homeless. And if you need money now, perhaps you could even sell some of your unused stuff to get money (depending on what it is). I have a relative who has been in this situation for years, having hoarder tendencies and being very attached to stuff but also living in poverty, and it's helped to perpetuate the cycle of poverty that they refuse to live in a small room in an apartment with roommates because of how much stuff they have, and during times when they ended up homeless it was a big source of stress and trauma what to do with their stuff and their stuff getting thrown out, etc.0 -
I do get fractious when other people tell me how I will think/feel/behave if I would just follow their preferred lifestyle, that it will improve my quality of life. I'm pretty sure I know more about what I want and how I feel than they do: It's one of my few areas of total expertise, actually.
Lol, yes!0 -
I used to think that I wanted to be more minimalist - but now I realize I just want my home to have a minimalist aesthetic. So no clutter and "stuff" I don't need. But I realize I could never be considered an actual minimalist, it doesn't fit my lifestyle.
I own two homes and one of them is on a lake so I have like 8 boats (kayaks, canoe's, peddle boat, fishing boat, seadoo etc), as well as ATV's and mountain bikes. Not sure what I would do all summer if I didn't have them anymore. I like my various toys, I worked hard for them, I use them all, and my family (grown children) gather together often for weekends and holidays to enjoy them together. I for one would definitely not be happier if got rid of all my stuff, and downsized to one small home.
Non minimalist doesn't necessarily = junk collector/hoarder - which is what I think a lot of people believe.2 -
We are not minimalist, and my husband and I have differing viewpoints about getting rid of stuff. Having reared 3 children who are now grown, and living in the same house for the last 21 years, oh yes, the stuff accumulates. It helps us both to remember the phrase "Does your house serve you, or are you serving your house?" when it comes to sending stuff out the door (via donation or trash.)
If we open a closet and immediately fall into despair, not being able to find what we're after, then our house is clearly not serving us. We still have a long way to go to achieving peaceful, serviceable closets (lol) but using that maxim as a guide has helped quite a bit.
I hope this conversation continues because I'm getting a lot of wisdom from it - both the pro-minimalist views and the not-so-pro.0 -
I'm definitely not a minimalist nor do I have any interest in being one. I grew up pretty minimalist in terms of possessions as well as experiences like travel out of necessity because my family was pretty poor, so basically been there and done that.
That said, I wouldn't say we are out of control consumers either. We have everything we absolutely need as well as most wants, but we're not frivolous about it. We don't buy new cars every 4-5 years...we typically buy used with low mileage and we drive them for 8-10 years. We don't buy a new TV just because...we replace it when it's broken or obsolete...things like that. Most of what we have gets used on the regular and we do an annual spring purge of things that have been moved into the garage or the shed or otherwise "decommissioned" and just sitting in a closet somewhere.
I would say my wife and I ARE big consumers of experiences. Growing up, something like a family vacation was basically folklore because my parents just didn't have the money for such things and for my early childhood, they primarily worked hourly type jobs where time off meant loss of income because there was no paid vacation or leave. Growing up, "vacation" was generally a long weekend camping trip once per year in the summer and travel to my grandparents home for Christmas. We didn't take our first true family vacation with hotel and all that kind of stuff until the summer after I graduated high school and it was the only true family vacation we ever took.
I think that's one of the big reasons I'm so into traveling and going places and seeing and doing things and giving those experiences to my kids but we mostly avoid the sort of typical "Disney" type trip. In a given year I make sure we have one big family vacation that is at least 10 days and we try to travel internationally at least every 3 years or so...doesn't always work out, but my kids have been to the UK, Colombia SA, Mexico, Tanzania, and this coming summer we will be going to South Africa and then Botswana. The in between years are domestic travels that range from flying to Miami and then road tripping through the Keys to epic desert road trips like we took for Spring Break of 2022.
We also try to get out and go somewhere for a long weekend at least every 2-3 months...this past October for fall break we took a nice little road trip from ABQ to Las Cruces to City of Rocks and then Silver City and looped back home through the Gila Mountains which is in my top 5 most epic drives I've ever done. If I don't get out every few months or so I start getting pretty antsy. It is safe to say that 2020 was pretty brutal for me in that regard because I couldn't go anywhere. We also have a small camping trailer and we camp several times per year in season.1 -
OP mentions paring down and focusing on the simpler things in life -- which of course would mean different things to different people. I wonder if doing so would impact weight loss. There are connections between having "too much stuff" and elevated stress levels. Certainly mental wellbeing would be a beneficial byproduct of paring down (which I interpret to mean jettisoning excess and organizing what's left) - but could weight loss? Or is that a nonstarter?
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