I just unlinked my garmin vivofit 4 and will be manually adding exercise calories

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glassyo
glassyo Posts: 7,592 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So I need a quick tutorial.

My garmin's gone wonky after having the batteries replaced. It was pretty consistent on the exercise calories it gave me and the calories were consistent when I had it linked. I do a lot of exercise but, instead of giving me a usual tdee of around 2000/2100 calories, all the exercise I add is bringing it up to like 2700.

I know where *that's* coming from but how was I getting the 2100 via garmin vs the 2700 via unsynced mfp?

2700 is DEFINITELY not the correct amount :)

Synced I had my activity level as slightly active. I just lowered it to sedentary even tho I do my best not to be just to get those calories a bit lower.

I know about eating a portion of the exercise calories back but I'm just wondering why the difference between the synced vs unsynced garmin...because I never had to before this.
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  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,945 Member
    edited July 2022
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    Well, I think you should have had your MFP Activity level set to "Sedentary" if you were going to sync the two. Otherwise you were double-counting your exercise.
    Since the Garmin was sending over all your calories, you should have been set at Sedentary. That's how the devices are designed to work when in sync with MFP's particular algorithm.

    Each Activity Level up in MFP adds 250 calories...so for instance if I'm set at Sedentary I may get 1400 calories (before exercise) and at Lightly Active that would be 1650, at Active it would be 1900, and at Very Active it would be 2150. I would THEN add in any purposeful additional exercise into the Exercise tab and eat that amount more.

    On MFP, if you set your Activity Level reasonably you'll get the right number to cover your day to day regular activity and if you add exercise to the Exercise tab it will add that to your daily Goal but it does take some trial and error.

    You've been at this long enough to know the numbers. Figure out how to make that work, or if you are a regular exerciser, then just set your daily calorie goal manually (including exercise) and don't worry about the exercise tab on MFP.

    Apologies if I am not understanding your problem - I was having trouble figuring out your question.
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,111 Member
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    I'm a bit confused. What number had gone up from 2100 to 2700? What's your TDEE according to Garmin, in the Connect app? It's under Calories (not calories in/out).
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,111 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    Well, I think you should have had your MFP Activity level set to "Sedentary" if you were going to sync the two. Otherwise you were double-counting your exercise
    Since the Garmin was sending over all your calories, you should have been set at Sedentary. That's how the devices are designed to work when in sync with MFP's particular algorithm.

    With a fully synced device, there is no double-counting, choosing a higher activity level just means a lower adjustment at the end of the day.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,592 Member
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    Lietchi wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    Well, I think you should have had your MFP Activity level set to "Sedentary" if you were going to sync the two. Otherwise you were double-counting your exercise
    Since the Garmin was sending over all your calories, you should have been set at Sedentary. That's how the devices are designed to work when in sync with MFP's particular algorithm.

    With a fully synced device, there is no double-counting, choosing a higher activity level just means a lower adjustment at the end of the day.

    Thanks for validating what I thought about double dipping :)

    Ok, basically:

    Pre-battery replacement - I was synced to mfp, activity level was lightly active, negative calories enabled, tdee from garmin was consistent and numbers matched up with mfp after syncs. So let's say that's my 2100 tdee.

    Post-battery replacement - garmin was underestiming my purposeful exercise numbers. Settings hadn't changed and neither did my exercise. I was running timed activities so I could edit the calories to be what I normally burned. The timed activity calories showed up in the exercise section on here but only the original numbers. Not the edited ones. The calories from garmin and mfp no longer were the same. So let's say garmin says 1800 and mfp says 2700 (pulling those numbers out of my you know what :))

    I've edited on the garmin app. I've added the missing calories on mfp. I've edited the calories per synced activity on mfp (so three different ways) but the numbers don't mesh. I tried the 2nd two ways because the garmin app wasn't acknowledging the edited calories.

    Sorry for being confusing. I've been told I don't explain myself well. I started off one place and totally ended up another! :) It just occurred to me that garmin gave me consistent workout calories but now...doesn't and mfp used to agree with garmin and now...doesn't.

    I'm working with garmin on this, too, but they want me to open up the tracker and, since I had to take it to a watch repair shop because I couldn't get the damned thing unscrewed, I'm waiting on a toolset to hopefully give me the right screwdriver. :)

    Thanks for at least trying to solve this mystery tho!

    I actually ordered a Mi Band 5 on Amazon Prime Day and hopefully it won't overestimate everything like my fitbits did. I REALLY liked the garmin because it gave me numbers I didn't have to play with.

  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,945 Member
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    Okay, so leaving out the sync thing...

    You can estimate your own calories. I lost all my weight and have kept it off for 15 years with no devices.

    Just MFP.

    It's not that hard. You already know your calories based on your past results.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,084 Member
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    IMU, each activity level up isn't a fixed number of calories, irrespective of body size or other demographic factors. It's a multiplier of estimated BMR/RMR, I believe.

    Ditto to Lietchi that the tracker synch is a reconciliation between the calorie burn MFP estimates for a person to maintain, vs. the calories the device estimates the person actually did burn. (Possible exception: Apple, which has implemented the interface in their own unique and probably inaccurate way.)

    If MFP thinks I'd burn 1500 to maintain, but I ask for a half-pound weekly loss rate, my base calorie goal should be 1250 (1500 - 250). If the tracker sees a 2000 calorie burn on some particular day (by end of day), the adjustment should be +500, added to base calories so a goal of 1750. At least that's the way I understand it.

    It doesn't matter what the activity level setting is in MFP - as long as negative adjustments are enabled - the reconciliation will just be bigger or smaller, possibly negative. Repeating, that's by end of day: Some trackers will make guesses during the day based on what's happened so far, but the end to day reconciliation should settle the books. Messing with the detail calorie estimates on the MFP side could invalidate this theory, too.

    IMU, the issue with adding exercise calories manually is that when many trackers display exercise calories, they include BMR/RMR in that number - the number of calories you'd burn just sitting around. In addition, MFP's base calories assume some number of (non-exercise) calories are burned above BMR/RMR, and what you theoretically really want to add is the net from just the exercise, excluding what MFP expects you'd burn above BMR/RMR, and excluding BMR/RMR.

    I couldn't quickly find the activity multipliers in the Help docs, but they're around here somewhere. Theoretically, the right amount to add for exercise would be the tracker's exercise number (if verified to include BMR/RMR, because trackers vary), minus the MFP activity multiplier times MFP's estimated BMR, minus the BMR, all of that calibrated for the time period.

    Honestly, I don't bother. I add all my exercise manually, in some cases directly adding the (theoretically inflated by BMR) exercise number from my Garmin Vivoactive 3. I don't use Garmin's estimate for exercise when I think there are better sources for an exercise: Walking calories from https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs, with the energy setting on "net"; strength training calories from the MFP exercise database (conservative!), and rowing/cycling calories from Garmin's exercise calorie number. (I've compared Garmin's machine rowing/biking with the Concept 2 ergometer estimates: Close enough.)

    My BMR/RMR estimate is only around 1355 (per Garmin) or 1131-1219 (per Sailrabbit's multi-formulas), so fewer than 60 calories per hour . . . I don't worry about that. Close enough for gubmint work. I don't worry about MFP's activity multiplier distorting things, because I don't let MFP calculate my base calories, I did an experience-based estimate.

    Someone with different demographics (like bigger BMR/RMR) might differ, but that kind of SWAG** method works fine for me, over a long time period. (** Scientific Wild-A** Guess).

  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,970 Member
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    glassyo wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    Well, I think you should have had your MFP Activity level set to "Sedentary" if you were going to sync the two. Otherwise you were double-counting your exercise
    Since the Garmin was sending over all your calories, you should have been set at Sedentary. That's how the devices are designed to work when in sync with MFP's particular algorithm.

    With a fully synced device, there is no double-counting, choosing a higher activity level just means a lower adjustment at the end of the day.

    Thanks for validating what I thought about double dipping :)

    Ok, basically:

    Pre-battery replacement - I was synced to mfp, activity level was lightly active, negative calories enabled, tdee from garmin was consistent and numbers matched up with mfp after syncs. So let's say that's my 2100 tdee.

    Post-battery replacement - garmin was underestiming my purposeful exercise numbers. Settings hadn't changed and neither did my exercise. I was running timed activities so I could edit the calories to be what I normally burned. The timed activity calories showed up in the exercise section on here but only the original numbers. Not the edited ones. The calories from garmin and mfp no longer were the same. So let's say garmin says 1800 and mfp says 2700 (pulling those numbers out of my you know what :))

    I've edited on the garmin app. I've added the missing calories on mfp. I've edited the calories per synced activity on mfp (so three different ways) but the numbers don't mesh. I tried the 2nd two ways because the garmin app wasn't acknowledging the edited calories.

    Sorry for being confusing. I've been told I don't explain myself well. I started off one place and totally ended up another! :) It just occurred to me that garmin gave me consistent workout calories but now...doesn't and mfp used to agree with garmin and now...doesn't.

    I'm working with garmin on this, too, but they want me to open up the tracker and, since I had to take it to a watch repair shop because I couldn't get the damned thing unscrewed, I'm waiting on a toolset to hopefully give me the right screwdriver. :)

    Thanks for at least trying to solve this mystery tho!

    I actually ordered a Mi Band 5 on Amazon Prime Day and hopefully it won't overestimate everything like my fitbits did. I REALLY liked the garmin because it gave me numbers I didn't have to play with.

    Maybe replacing the battery resulted in losing some data the device needs and has restarted the "getting to know you" period. Which usually lasts a couple weeks?

    Garmin's partner apps thing sends a copy of your data when your device syncs it. It doesn't go back and reconcile after you edit. That's why only the original calories came over.

    Probably a better way if you want to adjust your calorie balance is to leave the original data as is and add a manual exercise or a food with calories but no macros. So you burned 10,000 calories walking around the block and then you ate a 10,000 magic rainbow, and it looks goofy but the numbers are where they need to be. On a personal note, I would be willing to do a workaround temporarily but not on an ongoing basis, I would consider it a problem with my device if this continues indefinitely.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,592 Member
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    Maybe replacing the battery resulted in losing some data the device needs and has restarted the "getting to know you" period. Which usually lasts a couple weeks?

    Mayyyyybe. I don't even remember a first getting to know you period! :) As an aside, my fancier fitbits never got to know me. Ahhhhh that one day when I WISHED I burned 3200 calories in a day!

    Garmin's partner apps thing sends a copy of your data when your device syncs it. It doesn't go back and reconcile after you edit. That's why only the original calories came over.

    Highly annoying, let me tell ya.

    Probably a better way if you want to adjust your calorie balance is to leave the original data as is and add a manual exercise or a food with calories but no macros. So you burned 10,000 calories walking around the block and then you ate a 10,000 magic rainbow, and it looks goofy but the numbers are where they need to be. On a personal note, I would be willing to do a workaround temporarily but not on an ongoing basis, I would consider it a problem with my device if this continues indefinitely.

    I did that, too, once or twice. Tacked on an extra couple hundred or so exercise calories instead of playing around. That might be my best bet for now.

    I've also been playing around with the mi band 5 I just received which I like some things and dislike some others. I definitely need a bigger display for the teeny tiny writing but the watch faces are fun!

    I also received the screwdriver kit I bought so I could unscrew the garmin and it worked but I tried it on one of the other two they sent me when I had a MOVE IQ/Timer after midnight not resetting display problem. Honestly, it's probably not damaged. I also might add the garmin I opened up (and put in new batteries) to see if that works.

    (Yeah, I know, sometimes it takes me a day or two and other people to put my one brain cell to good use. :))

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