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The body positivity movement promotes obesity
rfreeman007
Posts: 2 Member
in Debate Club
I have heard this argument from several people. I am on the fence about how I feel about this. Personally I have been clinical obese my whole adult life. I have lost over 100 pounds, I am a distance runner now and I do CrossFit 3 times a week. I do feel that I had had to learn to love myself, before I could make the changes in my life to be healthy. If you go by the standard bmi measurements, I am still in the obese catagory...although no one would believe that without seeing the numbers. As a mother to a teenage daughter, I want to take the focus off of the way your body looks, and put it on the way your body feels. So I try to use words like you look strong, instead of you look pretty. ( I do feel like a women can be both.) I do feel like some of the body positivity glamorizes being obese... for me it was horrible, as a teen I constantly compared myself to others, couldn't shop at regular stores, and had no clue how to even begin to take care of myself. My Hispanic family was very accepting of larger bodies and thought nothing of it. Even with the health issues they had. I feel like acceptance and normalization of obesity is what led me to be obese, and stay that way longer than I ever should have. Many of my siblings still struggle with obesity. I feel the body positivity may have this same effect on many young impressionable teens and young adults. So how do you teach people to love them selves enough to take care of them selves?
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There's not much acceptance or normalisation of obesity in my country or culture. Many of my family members were extremely fatphobic and would rather see their loved ones unhealthy than fat. I managed to get very obese anyway. Why? There was SO MUCH emphasis on dieting all throughout my childhood and teenage years, I developed an awful relationships with food ánd I was stressed out of my mind 24/7 because the scale wasn't budging no matter how hard I worked ánd my self-esteem was nonexistent.
There have been only 2 times in my life where I succeeded at losing any weight at all. The common factor? I got rid of stress. The first time was a temporary happiness boost due to graduating uni after failing a bunch of times and I soon got a lot of financial stress so the weight packed back on. The second time is now. For me, the body positivity movement helped remove the stress caused by how other people see me (and are very vocal about expressing) and lets me love me enough that I can actually function well enough in life that I can actually focus on goals. It's not an "I'm perfect now and nothing needs to change" message, at least that isn't what I heard. I heard "I'm good enough now and because I'm good enough I deserve to treat myself well". I'm still very obese but I'm also very fit and very healthy.
I've never had physical health problems from obesity. I've had severe mental health problems from how people reacted to my obesity. I'd rather be fat and healthy than starve myself to fit everyone else's ideals. And because I'm thriving, I'm 11kg down already. That's more than I've ever lost in my life before.
Edit: maybe I've only seen the "good" posts from the movement and not posts that promoted obesity17 -
I think that any movement that promotes people feeling positive in their own body is positive.
There is a big difference between body positivity and unhealthy encouragement.
The problem (IMHO) is that this particular movement has very different meanings for different people.
I personally, having spent many years around these forums and various places of discussion with many different types of people haven't seen obesity promotion. I'm sure it exists, as do many subgenres in every movement but I don't think it's the norm.
I do find that there is a lot of bad information out there and I have seen some REALLY bad takes and people lap it up because they want to reinforce their own belief that how they are is 'healthy'.
Body neutrality seems a better movement - I think that body positivity is assigned to plus size people far too often and people forget that there are people facing similar problems at the other end of the spectrum.
In it's simplest form, whilst I'm all about fitness and being athletic - I accept that this lifestyle that I live isn't one that everybody wants and there are some people who just want to be happy with who they are, without being judged (anymore than anybody is judged) for being who they are and how they are. To me, that can't be a bad thing.
The same goes for ALL types of body.21 -
There's nothing worse than a reformed smoker. There's nothing worse than a reformed smoker, drinker, gambler and so on. It's easy to turn our nose up at kin or friends still stuck in the struggle if we don't check ourselves.
Someone drops it like it's hot and suddenly they become the end all to be all. Prejudice for any body type is like shunning any other social group. At the roots of all - is ignorance. It's these stigmas that hurt people to the core. They're afraid to go to the gym and start hiding in their house. They quit attending family and class reunions. Many don't even want to go to the doctor or get a check-up. It becomes a total cluster that affects every part of their being.
In the workplace, there's a reality that cannot be overlooked. Advancement, promotions and being terminated in a shrinking job market ...who stays and who goes. Social and marital status. The positivity movement is a small push-back to counteract the stigmas. It's like every other movement, it might take 100-200 years before you see any real changes.
There are only choices and consequences. Everyone knows they're going to lose their hind-end from gambling their entire paycheck on sports games. We all know that eating ourselves into an early grave is not the way to go but food is complex. It's powerful.
How do we teach people? It starts at home but an over-zealous parent can push their children into disordered eating patterns. A parent has to find their balance to be a good role model.
Most of us run when we see the reformed anything coming our way. I can't listen to it or read it. I start feeling sick inside. It's about finding our balance and that's a gift. Natural to some and consistent work for the rest of us.8 -
Every "movement" has it's healthier people and it's more toxic people. The "body positivity" movement isn't a monolith with one central tenet for everyone to follow, it's just people trying to navigate a world where most of the messaging about bodies is pretty horrifying, and where a huge proportion of the population feels constantly shamed just for existing.
I take some body positivity messages and I I leave others. I like the ones that focus on loving and nurturing your body, and not making self respect or self care contingent on your size or how you look. That's my approach. I take care of myself because I love my body, regardless of what weight it is. If I gain, there's an understandable reason, and if I lose, I do so with loving compassion by finding ways to resolve those reasons, through better, healthier supports.
So if being overworked and stress is pushing me to eat poorly and gain weight, I don't bully my body for not being good enough, I prioritize lowering the stress and finding better psychological supports and healthier coping mechanisms.
Good nutrition and exercise are self care that my body deserves, not punishment for not being the "right" size. That's my version of body positivity.
I have seen versions of body positivity where it's all about promoting obesity, and that's just not a philosophy I take on for myself, so I just let those messages pass me by, but I accept that they may be right for someone other than me.
At the end of the day, it's up to each person to decide what their own health priorities are. I grew up in a house of chain smoking drinkers and I've never smoked and don't drink, but I also don't walk around shaming every smoker and drinker I see either.
Would it be great if everyone promoted the exact right kind of support for everyone to feel more motivated to live healthier lives? Sure, that would be great, but that's not going to happen.
Messages are always going to be flawed because they come from people and people are deeply flawed.
Body image is a nuanced, complex issue within a society that has some pretty deranged messaging about bodies, especially women's bodies, so it's no wonder that any person or group promoting any kind of body messaging is going to be imperfect.
Also, each individual is different. For each story I hear about someone who is obese who says that their obesity-promoting family held them back from feeling motivated to lose weight, I hear contrasting stories about people who grew up horribly traumatized by being constantly fat-shamed by their family and how it made their eating issues even worse.
I don't know that there is one perfect "right" body image message that will magically make every single person feel motivated to obtain and maintain a healthy weight. That would be nice, but humans are messy, messy creatures.10 -
It's an opinion not a fact, so you can argue it either way and decide where you come down. But it probably doesn't matter, all any of us can do is focus on ourselves.6
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Not sure if it promotes obesity but it does try to normalize it and lets face it with almost half the population obese that was inevitable. Of course the industrial business complex wouldn't be doing it's job without finding shareholder value in this fledgling territory.8
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Aren't we trying to normalize everything? The culture of normalization is evolving.
Here's the best part about a comment/debate section. I don't have to be wrong so you can be right. I choose to intentionally listen to people who disagree rather than dismiss them out of hand. The culture of normalization is about acceptance. When we destigmatize things we remove the shame....in a judgment free zone.2 -
Here's my thoughts. I have a tendency to ignore pretty much any movement that seems to be simply online and nowhere else. Is the body positivity movement outside the Internet? If it is, I haven't seen it. Throwing a few hashtags here and there, maybe a magazine cover for those magazines which still exist. I think that Dove soap did some TV adverts with overweight female models. Why aren't us men in those Dove soap adverts? We buy soap too.
Anyway, I see body positivity movement as a tiny proportion of a person's life. I don't see it as a bad thing. Is it a good thing? Probably not, simply because it's just a hashtag or two. It doesn't affect most people in any significant way. Some people reading this may disagree. Unless you are addicted to Instagram (in which case you have more important problems) you may not even care.
Acceptance of obesity is a totally different issue. Personally, I think we'll never go back to the way things were. The obesity rate will slowly increase then reach a maximum worldwide in the next 50 years. I can't see how things will change, food is too yummy, sugar is too inexpensive. I'm seeing positive reports of semaglutide the appetite suppressant, maybe half the population will be on something like that in 50 years.1 -
Oh man. There are too many pieces to this puzzle to have a right answer. I have actually given this a lot of thought lately. Now that I have lost some weight I actually want this for everyone. Not because I think they need it to be a better person. But because I LOVE the way I feel now and want this for everyone.
I absolutely believe that every human is valuable. Nobody should feel less so because of anything- that includes body weight. However, it is true that obesity comes with health issues.
I am 20+ lbs down. I still have about 40 to go. But I feel SO much better even now. My labs are better. My health is better. And I think promoting health is a good thing.
But there is another side to that coin. I have been very cautious about how I word things with my kids. I don’t talk about my weight loss to them. We do talk about benefits of different foods and exercise. I want them to love themselves and value those around them no matter how they look. But I want to arm them with information about how to promote health. So I guess that should be the goal for the bigger picture as well?7 -
I'm sure this will be unpopular and I'll get some bad replies here, but here's mine.
I'm all about having a healthy outlook about oneself. Being down on oneself constantly leads to depression and suicidal thoughts and drug use, etc. But this is what bothers me more. Being positive for a majority, women especially, means showing off as much skin as legally possible. Oversexualizing young women brings a whole host of other issues, such as using sex to mean acceptance. Personally I don't want to see girls dressed in short shorts, tight pants, crop tops, etc. I don't want my son to believe that dressing provocatively equals confidence, healthy attitudes, or a steady life partner.
Body positivity, to me, means presenting oneself in the best way possible. Accenting the best parts, working on changing the not so great parts, and finding a happy balance in the two.17 -
Image crafting isn't just about filtering, it's projects an above-average image that feels good only in the moment. Over the long-term it leads to disappointment. A carefully crafted ideal is a recipe for a let-down when you finally meet your 'person'. Self-worth and self-esteem hangs in the balance. It's a trade-off, real life demeanor vs. the carefully crafted image. And that is exhausting. Once you jump on that image treadmill, there's no way off. You'll never be able to embrace the aging process.3
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I always look at the roots of the body positivity movements in times like these.
Starting in the 60s by the NAAFA, the original purpose was fat acceptance. Seeing fatness as a neutral thing, and bringing down social stigmas around it. Things like access to unbiased medical care and work opportunities and ending fatphobia!
They soon branched out and overlapped with other civil rights movements. This is when it became the "body positivity" movement, a movement based on destigmitzing all bodies. They worked with other civil rights groups for racial and gender equality, queer rights, disabled rights and accessibility, and fat liberation. It became a movement for anyone who's body didn't fit the "ideal" model, who was neglected and dismissed by the medical systems and discriminated against in working environments.
The modern body positivity movement has admittedly shifted, mostly due to people (who often already fit the ideal) realizing they could capitalize and profit off of it. By sanitizing its history, they removed context that makes it easier to attack. But there are plenty who promote it with genuine love and care, and those who remember and maintain the original meanings.1 -
Interesting history, thank you @angelxbunny
i have only noticed the movement on a sort of peripheral now and then kind of thing - this last holiday season, there was a Hallmark movie with it as the primary issue and focus. It actually addressed that media tends to promote the ultra thin as the standard for beauty - and that everyone should be afforded the same respect irrespective of their body size; all sizes. this I would agree with - our body does not define us as good or bad, acceptable or unacceptable - it is just our package - same as for race, height, color of hair or eyes, or whatnot - it seems that people who are overweight/obesity is 1 of the last few socially accepted and stigmatized groups ~ which is still and has not ever been ok. imho.1 -
1. It's good to love yourself and have confidence. Self confidence > a perfect body.
2. It's delusional to think obesity is healthy
3. It's wrong to demand other people believe as though obesity is healthy when it absolutely isn't.
4. Bullying or laughing at people for being overweight is also very very wrong. However, boy it does sure seem to work sometimes. Me for example - I find it very motivational.11 -
1. It's good to love yourself and have confidence. Self confidence > a perfect body.
2. It's delusional to think obesity is healthy
3. It's wrong to demand other people believe as though obesity is healthy when it absolutely isn't.
4. Bullying or laughing at people for being overweight is also very very wrong. However, boy it does sure seem to work sometimes. Me for example - I find it very motivational.
One issue I see sometimes (and have experienced to some degree myself) is that people who are obese give up, when it isn't necessary. There's an element of learned helplessness that I think can be overcome. "I'm fat so why exercise?" when you can absolutely learn how.
I said this once on the forums a long time ago but one thing obesity really has working against it is that it displays a vice. Anyone who is obese eats too much for their size. Lots of other problem behaviors are invisible by comparison (or only visible to those who know the signs.) Now, that doesn't affect anyone's value as a person - every single person has dignity inherent to him or her as a member of the human race and should be treated with kindness and respect - but having that kind of evidence easily available even to strangers does provide a target for cruelty. It should not be like that, but it is. I don't think it's a problem to point out that cruelty to someone based on size is wrong. I also think it's wrong that many overweight and obese people have medical problems blamed on fatness when there are other underlying causes at play.
I will admit I don't like the aspects of "body positivity" that suggest that the only reason a person might want to dress modestly is shame. I put a high value on modest dress and don't think it's just something for unattractive people to do. I felt very awkward when I was young and thin and wore the same fairly revealing clothes as my peers (all I knew) because I hated being looked at. It's very freeing to cover up and be ignored! (One benefit of getting older, too. :P )1 -
lol have to grin ( @penguinmama87 ) ~ i grew up when modesty was the standard - and Barbara Eden in 'I dream of Jeannie' was not allowed to show her belly button! Mumsie had to kneel to make sure her skirt touched the floor when kneeling, I was not allowed to wear pants except at home... At the trajectory of change the last few decades, I often wonder if it will be a tukus-nekkid world in a few years from now, lol - or will the pendulum swing back? Would like to see something inbetween the 2 extremes.
regarding the topic ~ stating again... imho, it's a crying shame if people use the 'body positivity' idea or movement as a reason/justification to get or stay obese - or if people use it as a weapon to continue stigma and discrimination - our body is our package and no one should be discriminated against for how they appear... which remains rather widespread, both overt and pervasive and often, still, a common source of jokes... the 'body positivity' movement provides a bit of pushback....
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Alas, this seems to be yet another conundrum of consciousness.
There are, in all things in life, two competing approaches to realize satisfaction.
Method A - Have hopes, set goals, change yourself, become that.
Method B - Accept what and who you are as you are.
This is true in possessions, careers, relationships, as much as body.
Methods A and B are used, in exclusivity, in Step 1, after Step 0 which is none other than despair held back by the harms of the past.
However, at Step 1, in the wrestling between the goals of the future and the self of the present, you may discover a Step 2, the acceptance that it's a journey and there's a balance, and a bit of wisdom's benefit in blending the two.
And then, at Step 2, you may discover Step 3, the realization and acceptance that in profound ways, it's OK for others to be at any step of this process of development in their own lives.
So in this context, does the Body Positivity Movement promote obesity. Definitely, of course it can, and most notably among persons who have recently awarded themselves the promotion to Step 1 and have its newly found energies.
Finally, I would suggest that whatever step you're on, pursue relationships with those who accept you for what, who, and how you are while you be that to them, allowing one's own internal nudging only to be the cause and means of progress forward. Perhaps, it's not until a Step 4 that one is ready to effectively listen, listen, listen, and sometimes share with others what actually could be.
(Note that I am my own primary audience in this written reflection.)0 -
The Body Positivity Movement pressures the media to reflect reality, bodies as they actually are verses allowing media to portray a false norm which implies that everyone is or should be a certain way (slim, fit, “healthy,” etc) while, ironically, the majority of US citizens are overweight (I live in the U.S., so this is my reference point.) Body Positivity only reflects a more accurate picture of ourselves to ourselves, and if we’re individually uncomfortable with reality, that’s a conversation starter, but blaming the messenger won’t get us anywhere individually or en mass.
The core of this issue seems to be entanglement of acceptance and respect versus enabling. By accepting and respecting a fat person you’re not enabling them to be unhealthy just because they happen to be fat. The appearance of fatness has little to do with a person’s character yet these aspects keep being melded together and labeled as “motivation,” when, in fact, it’s a form of bullying and abusive marketing solely based on a person’s physical appearance.
My suggestion is to lean on your PCM/pediatrician and relevant specialists which can help you and your family develop and maintain healthy habits.2 -
The thing is that being overweight isn't necessarily a health problem. It is a health risk. And there are a lot of health risks (smoking, drinking, sunbathing, eating cured meats, etc. ad nauseum).
Unless clearly demarked or granted as such, it is not your responsibility or right to comment on someone else's life choices. When people run into actual health problems, they are usually well aware of them and may be actively trying to address them. It often is very difficult and you can assume that they are doing their best.
Now, if you wonder what the effect of a doctor's commentary can be, you can just ask my wife. Years ago, she went to a GP and the first thing he said when he saw her was that he wanted her to lose weight (she was a few months post-partum). She happens to be a psychologist and she decided that was so totally unproductive that she changed GPs!3 -
Being overweight is a medical condition, and the OP specifically asked how to teach her child how to love themself enough to take care of themselves with concerns over the Body Positivity Movement. Seeking medical consultation is literally taking care of yourself, and is objective, the Body Positivity Movement discourages self deprecation, the deprecation of others, and promotes acceptance, the two aren’t at conflict.1
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Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
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neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
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neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
🤣agreed0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
Because now Instagram posts accurately represent attitudes/demographics in the world at large? Sure. 🤣🤣🤣2 -
neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
What was interesting was who originally coined the phrase, it's links to intersectionality which has roots in ideological thought like Marxism, Taoism and the basic connection to wokeism, radical feminism, etc. No biggy, just though some people would find it interesting. Cheers1 -
Another flavor of degeneration afaict. We will end up like the land whales on electric carts in the movie WALL-E. Nobody should feel positive about being obese and people with obese kids should be charged with child abuse.
I used to smoke and drink. I never thought it was a good idea. I always knew it was bad for me, and for society. I'd never expect people to accept that. I'd never expect people to let children do those things. I never felt good about it either.
I did feel good about stopping, and becoming healthy and a role model for my children. That's what we should be proud of. Positive imporovment. Otherwise it's a participation award.
Can't believe people died in world wars to support what humanity has become. Those guys had it so hard, and got so little respect. We do so little and demand so much respect and praise.11 -
^^ bit hyperbolic.
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george6417 wrote: »Another flavor of degeneration afaict. We will end up like the land whales on electric carts in the movie WALL-E. Nobody should feel positive about being obese and people with obese kids should be charged with child abuse.
I used to smoke and drink. I never thought it was a good idea. I always knew it was bad for me, and for society. I'd never expect people to accept that. I'd never expect people to let children do those things. I never felt good about it either.
I did feel good about stopping, and becoming healthy and a role model for my children. That's what we should be proud of. Positive imporovment. Otherwise it's a participation award.
Can't believe people died in world wars to support what humanity has become. Those guys had it so hard, and got so little respect. We do so little and demand so much respect and praise.
Drinking isn't just accepted, it's widely encouraged in society, so I don't know if that's the best argument. I quit drinking, and lost a lot of friends when I did... because.... "it's no fun if you don't drink with us". There's a lot of things people do that they probably shouldn't. It's human.3 -
I think there needs to be a middle ground. Like "avoid excess negativity. " I hear about a lot of destructive activities related to body image. I.e. when people won't buy clothes in their size, so have only a couple outfits, or people who won't go swimming, or avoiding seeing old friends or social gatherings because of what they think people will think of their weight. I dont think we need to NORMALIZE fat, just DESTIGMATIZE it. We can acknowledge that overweight isnt healthy or desirable without making fat PEOPLE feel undesirable.13
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I think health, fitness and weight all intertwine in complicated ways. It is very possible to make healthy food choices, be active, be fat and be generally healthy. But fat definitely comes with some health risks at the same time. It is very possible to be slim, be slothful, make poor food choices and be generally unhealthy. But being slim in itself (unless extreme) carries no health risks that I'm aware of.
But basically I endorse body neutrality. We all have bodies. Some do some things better than others. Why such a big deal about it? Some people are smarter than others. Some are more artistic or kinder. Why does physical appearance have to be so all-important?2
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