Calorie Deficit, Wt training, Cardio, and the Scale isn't moving....why?
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"I'm not sure what "What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?" means... "
You are tracking your exercise but not eating back your exercise calories.
Remember the base calorie goals given by MFP are only for a day with no purposeful exercise.
Even the lowest goal of 1200 means 1200 + exercise calories.
Apart from calorie counting supposed to be both calories In and out the method is trying to set you up with healthy habits for life and not to just using exercise to increase your deficit.1 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
It can be empowering to realize that you are the programmer. You're not a helpless victim of uncontrollable outside forces.
I'm not saying it's easy, but our own views and attitudes are pretty much 100% in our control. They can have a major impact on our success and happiness, so it's a worthwhile thing to work on.
On a more substantive front: Does your overall plan include "cheat days" or refeeds? Have there been any periods where it just wasn't possible for you to stick with that low calorie goal?
(I'm 5'5", started here at age 59, SW 183, and when I joined MFP tried to eat 1200 plus all exercise calories until I figured out that that was way too low for me. Even though I corrected quickly, I got weak and fatigued after a period of time, then took weeks to recover fully even when I started eating a more sensible amount. I'm not saying that's happening for you, because I'm a mysteriously good calorie burner for my demographic, but I'd be concerned about sustainability for you, especially with the heavy lifting and other exercise in the picture.)
A big calorie deficit is a stressor. Heavy lifting or other intense exercise is a stressor (even though a beneficial one). Over-stress can increase water retention, cause fatigue, reduce spontaneous movement (so reduce calorie expenditure, sometimes in subtle ways, but to a meaningful total).
I'd also encourage you to open your diary, so the MFP old hands can see if there's anything that jumps out there. This is not in any way a dig: Food logging is a skill that takes time to develop, and advice from experienced folks can help speed that learning process, for those who're open to it.
You may be fine trying to lose 2 pounds a week, at your current weight - I assume that's how you got the 1200 goal. However, not eating any exercise calories is in effect pushing for a faster loss rate, and that might not be wise. Even if 2 pounds a week is theoretically OK, sometimes people find that their best balance of sustainability, energy level, and progress happens at a slower loss rate.
When we have a meaningful amount of weight to lose, as I did and you do, that's not a quick project with an end date. It takes weeks to months, maybe even multiple years. Then, there's the challenge of maintaining that healthy weight long term. Those factors put a priority on finding sustainable habits - enjoyable, calorie-appropriate eating; enjoyable exercise plans - that can continue almost on autopilot forever when life gets complicated. Do you feel like you're in that zone?
You're spot on with the assumption that the app set me at 1200 calories with 2#/week loss goal. I have changed my goal to 1.5#/week, and now my calorie budget is 1700/day. I will tell you that I feel stronger. I feel better than I have in a long time. I'm frustrated by the number on the scale... why? Society has placed a lot of emphasis on it, and as a nurse, I do too. Also, I want to practice what I preach to my patients, so to speak. My insurance puts me as high risk, due to my weight. All other vitals are normal, and I take no medications. I want to feel better about how I look, and know I'm the most healthy I can be! I love my workout routine and can see my muscles starting to take shape. I truly don't feel I'm eating enough calories to sustain this. I appreciate your insight. I also just ordered a scale so I can be more accurate with my logging. Currently, I scan, or use the database provided. I've logged many times before, and I log EVERYTHING. I feel I need to start weighing to be more accurate with portions etc. Thank you soooo very much!
You are already making the correct changes for your health and well being. It's going to be a real eye opener for you when you start weighing your food. Fill up on lots of veggies and salads at every meal. You need to eat enough to fuel your body in a healthy way and that includes fueling your exercise. Increase your calories, weigh your food and see where your at in 4 weeks. Good luck👍1 -
Just a comment on the contradiction between (I paraphrase): I currently feel better than I've felt in years--and--My goal remains the scale because this is what my society and profession say I should focus on.
The scale has become relevant because it is a shortcut (as is BMI when you quickly assess a patient) to identifying the general condition of the person. You are not stamped with 122lbs or BMI 22. You are also not stamped with 222lbs or bmi 32. But with only few exceptions either of the two figures creates a picture... especially if you add height. 172.5cm 280+ lbs. 172.5cm 154 to 156 lbs
The end goal though is health. Not the "appearance" of health.
Ann already mentioned it: losing weight and keeping weight off TAKES TIME.
A LOT of time.
If you want to avoid a rebound when you're done... you won't be done.
You will have to keep on keeping on for another 2, 3, 4, 5+ years.
I got to my approximately current weight just about 6 years ago after 2+ years of losing weight.
I still use a food scale.
Daily
Yet.
I do NOT think you need or should move to using a food scale based on what you've said.
Your problem is NOT that you haven't been losing weight. 5lbs AND 10" AND feeling better argues that you have. The problem is that you're expecting even faster and better results than the already good ones you're getting.
Focus instead on sustainability of effort, on finding long term changes and on creating an environment conducive to your goals that you can live with for the next six years--not just the next six months.
The fat loss will continue for you as long as you keep making the right moves. There is no extra prize for losing faster and with more suffering than you have to. There is no prize to being able to announce a certain weight while increasing the chance of not being able to maintain your loss.
If you DO get a scale, use it to MAXIMIZE not minimize your eating, commensurate to reaching reasonably defined goals. Once your deficit exceeds 20% of your TDEE, I would be having a real hard look at the reasonable-ness of your goals. Morbidly obese and just starting out? Could well be reasonable to have a large deficit. Closer to normal weight or months or years into a deficit... probably not as reasonable.9 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
Scanning isn't weighing.
It's just another way of finding a database entry - which itself may or may not be accurate.
It might have been added to the database wrong, it could have gone out of date over time as recipes and quantities change, it might not even point to the right food item!
What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?
If you read the forums you will see how common it is for people who don't use the app as designed and go for an excessive deficit report lots of problems including weight loss stalls.
I'm not sure what "What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?" means... I am definitely going to buy a scale. That seems to be the consensus of what I'm missing. As far as using the app, I plugged in my info. The app is what told me 1200 calories a day. I went back in and changed my goal to losing 1.5 pounds a week...now my calorie budget is 1700/day. Thank you for your insight!
Did you change any other settings? From 2 to 1.5lbs per week should be a 250 difference, not 500 calories (1lb = approximately 3500 calories).
No, I didn't. I just changed the goal of 2 pounds a week to 1.5 pounds a week. I understand what you're saying, so I'm not sure why the difference is 500... hmm...0 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
Scanning isn't weighing.
It's just another way of finding a database entry - which itself may or may not be accurate.
It might have been added to the database wrong, it could have gone out of date over time as recipes and quantities change, it might not even point to the right food item!
What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?
If you read the forums you will see how common it is for people who don't use the app as designed and go for an excessive deficit report lots of problems including weight loss stalls.
I'm not sure what "What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?" means... I am definitely going to buy a scale. That seems to be the consensus of what I'm missing. As far as using the app, I plugged in my info. The app is what told me 1200 calories a day. I went back in and changed my goal to losing 1.5 pounds a week...now my calorie budget is 1700/day. Thank you for your insight!
Did you change any other settings? From 2 to 1.5lbs per week should be a 250 difference, not 500 calories (1lb = approximately 3500 calories).
No, I didn't. I just changed the goal of 2 pounds a week to 1.5 pounds a week. I understand what you're saying, so I'm not sure why the difference is 500... hmm...
It was my fault! Thanks for the catch! I wanted to select 1.5 pounds/wk, but somehow hit 1 pound/wk. Thanks again for catching that!
I'm still not sure what you meant about the Apple Watch reference for exercise...0 -
Just a comment on the contradiction between (I paraphrase): I currently feel better than I've felt in years--and--My goal remains the scale because this is what my society and profession say I should focus on.
The scale has become relevant because it is a shortcut (as is BMI when you quickly assess a patient) to identifying the general condition of the person. You are not stamped with 122lbs or BMI 22. You are also not stamped with 222lbs or bmi 32. But with only few exceptions either of the two figures creates a picture... especially if you add height. 172.5cm 280+ lbs. 172.5cm 154 to 156 lbs
The end goal though is health. Not the "appearance" of health.
Ann already mentioned it: losing weight and keeping weight off TAKES TIME.
A LOT of time.
If you want to avoid a rebound when you're done... you won't be done.
You will have to keep on keeping on for another 2, 3, 4, 5+ years.
I got to my approximately current weight just about 6 years ago after 2+ years of losing weight.
I still use a food scale.
Daily
Yet.
I do NOT think you need or should move to using a food scale based on what you've said.
Your problem is NOT that you haven't been losing weight. 5lbs AND 10" AND feeling better argues that you have. The problem is that you're expecting even faster and better results than the already good ones you're getting.
Focus instead on sustainability of effort, on finding long term changes and on creating an environment conducive to your goals that you can live with for the next six years--not just the next six months.
The fat loss will continue for you as long as you keep making the right moves. There is no extra prize for losing faster and with more suffering than you have to. There is no prize to being able to announce a certain weight while increasing the chance of not being able to maintain your loss.
If you DO get a scale, use it to MAXIMIZE not minimize your eating, commensurate to reaching reasonably defined goals. Once your deficit exceeds 20% of your TDEE, I would be having a real hard look at the reasonable-ness of your goals. Morbidly obese and just starting out? Could well be reasonable to have a large deficit. Closer to normal weight or months or years into a deficit... probably not as reasonable.
Thank you...sincerely, thank you. I very much needed to hear this.2 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
Scanning isn't weighing.
It's just another way of finding a database entry - which itself may or may not be accurate.
It might have been added to the database wrong, it could have gone out of date over time as recipes and quantities change, it might not even point to the right food item!
What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?
If you read the forums you will see how common it is for people who don't use the app as designed and go for an excessive deficit report lots of problems including weight loss stalls.
I'm not sure what "What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?" means... I am definitely going to buy a scale. That seems to be the consensus of what I'm missing. As far as using the app, I plugged in my info. The app is what told me 1200 calories a day. I went back in and changed my goal to losing 1.5 pounds a week...now my calorie budget is 1700/day. Thank you for your insight!
Did you change any other settings? From 2 to 1.5lbs per week should be a 250 difference, not 500 calories (1lb = approximately 3500 calories).
No, I didn't. I just changed the goal of 2 pounds a week to 1.5 pounds a week. I understand what you're saying, so I'm not sure why the difference is 500... hmm...
It was my fault! Thanks for the catch! I wanted to select 1.5 pounds/wk, but somehow hit 1 pound/wk. Thanks again for catching that!
I'm still not sure what you meant about the Apple Watch reference for exercise...
Hey, thats cool! It shows that a weightloss goal of 2lbs/week was too high to start with for your current weight. 1200 is the lowest MFP will give you, and if a deficit is too big you'll always get 1200 even if the chosen number would get you below. It shows that for now 1.5lbs might be more realistic for you. I guess you got about 1450? See how that goes.
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Just to give a couple IRL examples of scanning issues:
I had two slices of bread yesterday. “Serving size” was 28 gr for 1 piece. Two weighed in at 69 grams. That was over 15% more than stated on the package.
The bun I had for dinner with my shredded BBQ chicken scanned incorrectly and gave me lower calories than what was shown on the bag. I had to go in and correct.
I scanned the potato chip bag to go with my bbq sandwich and they were also badly off.
The cheese slice I had the day before was 23gr when a serving size is 21.
10 here, 12 there, 35 there, it adds up.
If you want to have some fun, look up Progresso Light Italian Wedding Soup (a particular favorite) and look at all the various entries.
The food database on MFP is crowdsourced, meaning it’s been entered by users- occasionally by manufacturers or restaurant chains.
This means it’s littered with entry errors, whether accidental or deliberate “self deception”, like the people who will enter a chocolate chip cookie as 20 calories for five cookies, or something else ridiculous, to salve their ego or pad their diary. You see a lot of that on the site.
You’ll also see entries for things like “Mel’s lasagna” 10 calories per serving. There’s a lot of people here who, because it works for them, enter an entire recipe. It may be 1,000 calories for the whole recipe and weigh 100 grams. They enter a serving as 1 gr=10 calories and then weigh what they’ve served themselves.
Always be critical of the entries you’re choosing.
If you choose a lot of the same foods-as most people do- you’ll build a database of repeat foods and won’t have to look them up again every time.
Unless you go out of the country for several weeks and eat unfamiliar brands, only to come home and find most your frequent foods have vanished. Ugh!!!!
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And PS: many of the people who’ve replied to you, including myself, started well into our 50’s and have been successful using MFP.
Good for you for reading and responding to each reply.
That shows you’re really invested in this and are willing to stick it out.
Yay, you!!!!!!1 -
Oh yes, the lady on her head above speaks the truth. There are moments where I 'estimate' though. I buy a loaf of bread, 20 slices, 750gr. Put on scale, 750gr plus a tiny bit for packaging. Works. So I always log 75gr for two slices. But: I always check this when I get a new pack of bread because there were two months in the past where the packs were heavier for some reason. And when that happened I logged the higher weight divided by number of slices. But of course I make sure the calories (and other nutrititonal info) are correct.2
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lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
The same thing happened to me in July. I adjusted protein intake and ate a banana a couple of days to add potassium and at the next weigh in I dropped 5lbs which equaled out . You are correct we are programmed to obsess over the scale I am guilty of it as well.
Keep going and dont give up.
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springlering62 wrote: »Just to give a couple IRL examples of scanning issues:
I had two slices of bread yesterday. “Serving size” was 28 gr for 1 piece. Two weighed in at 69 grams. That was over 15% more than stated on the package.
The bun I had for dinner with my shredded BBQ chicken scanned incorrectly and gave me lower calories than what was shown on the bag. I had to go in and correct.
I scanned the potato chip bag to go with my bbq sandwich and they were also badly off.
The cheese slice I had the day before was 23gr when a serving size is 21.
10 here, 12 there, 35 there, it adds up.
If you want to have some fun, look up Progresso Light Italian Wedding Soup (a particular favorite) and look at all the various entries.
The food database on MFP is crowdsourced, meaning it’s been entered by users- occasionally by manufacturers or restaurant chains.
This means it’s littered with entry errors, whether accidental or deliberate “self deception”, like the people who will enter a chocolate chip cookie as 20 calories for five cookies, or something else ridiculous, to salve their ego or pad their diary. You see a lot of that on the site.
You’ll also see entries for things like “Mel’s lasagna” 10 calories per serving. There’s a lot of people here who, because it works for them, enter an entire recipe. It may be 1,000 calories for the whole recipe and weigh 100 grams. They enter a serving as 1 gr=10 calories and then weigh what they’ve served themselves.
Always be critical of the entries you’re choosing.
If you choose a lot of the same foods-as most people do- you’ll build a database of repeat foods and won’t have to look them up again every time.
Unless you go out of the country for several weeks and eat unfamiliar brands, only to come home and find most your frequent foods have vanished. Ugh!!!!
I received my scale, and wow! There is quite a difference in many items being scanned vs weighed. It is a true eye-opener! Thank you!8 -
springlering62 wrote: »And PS: many of the people who’ve replied to you, including myself, started well into our 50’s and have been successful using MFP.
Good for you for reading and responding to each reply.
That shows you’re really invested in this and are willing to stick it out.
Yay, you!!!!!!
Yes, I'm invested in my health! I've been faithful on this journey since April 17, 2022. I keep a workout and diary journal to see my progress and identify any barriers that may come about. I will do this!5 -
ktilton70130 wrote: »lmlifesaver wrote: »I scan to log my foods. For exercise, I use my Apple Watch. I know I need to relax a bit, but that dang scale! Guess I’ve been programmed to obsess over it.
The same thing happened to me in July. I adjusted protein intake and ate a banana a couple of days to add potassium and at the next weigh in I dropped 5lbs which equaled out . You are correct we are programmed to obsess over the scale I am guilty of it as well.
Keep going and dont give up.
Thanks for your reply! I'm adjusting my protein a bit. I'm working out hard, so I know I need a little more protein than what I'm currently getting. My trainer suggested a protein drink to help with that. I won't give up!0 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »springlering62 wrote: »Just to give a couple IRL examples of scanning issues:
I had two slices of bread yesterday. “Serving size” was 28 gr for 1 piece. Two weighed in at 69 grams. That was over 15% more than stated on the package.
The bun I had for dinner with my shredded BBQ chicken scanned incorrectly and gave me lower calories than what was shown on the bag. I had to go in and correct.
I scanned the potato chip bag to go with my bbq sandwich and they were also badly off.
The cheese slice I had the day before was 23gr when a serving size is 21.
10 here, 12 there, 35 there, it adds up.
If you want to have some fun, look up Progresso Light Italian Wedding Soup (a particular favorite) and look at all the various entries.
The food database on MFP is crowdsourced, meaning it’s been entered by users- occasionally by manufacturers or restaurant chains.
This means it’s littered with entry errors, whether accidental or deliberate “self deception”, like the people who will enter a chocolate chip cookie as 20 calories for five cookies, or something else ridiculous, to salve their ego or pad their diary. You see a lot of that on the site.
You’ll also see entries for things like “Mel’s lasagna” 10 calories per serving. There’s a lot of people here who, because it works for them, enter an entire recipe. It may be 1,000 calories for the whole recipe and weigh 100 grams. They enter a serving as 1 gr=10 calories and then weigh what they’ve served themselves.
Always be critical of the entries you’re choosing.
If you choose a lot of the same foods-as most people do- you’ll build a database of repeat foods and won’t have to look them up again every time.
Unless you go out of the country for several weeks and eat unfamiliar brands, only to come home and find most your frequent foods have vanished. Ugh!!!!
I received my scale, and wow! There is quite a difference in many items being scanned vs weighed. It is a true eye-opener! Thank you!
It's quite sad, isn't it? *hugs*2 -
"I'm not sure what "What's the point of using your Apple Watch for exercise if you don't trust it enough to use its data?" means... "
You are tracking your exercise but not eating back your exercise calories.
Remember the base calorie goals given by MFP are only for a day with no purposeful exercise.
Even the lowest goal of 1200 means 1200 + exercise calories.
Apart from calorie counting supposed to be both calories In and out the method is trying to set you up with healthy habits for life and not to just using exercise to increase your deficit.
Gotcha! I'm eating my exercise calories now. I feel more energized. I'm giving it some time to see if this makes a difference in the scale movement, and also the body measurements. Thank you for explaining!3 -
lmlifesaver wrote: »springlering62 wrote: »Just to give a couple IRL examples of scanning issues:
I had two slices of bread yesterday. “Serving size” was 28 gr for 1 piece. Two weighed in at 69 grams. That was over 15% more than stated on the package.
The bun I had for dinner with my shredded BBQ chicken scanned incorrectly and gave me lower calories than what was shown on the bag. I had to go in and correct.
I scanned the potato chip bag to go with my bbq sandwich and they were also badly off.
The cheese slice I had the day before was 23gr when a serving size is 21.
10 here, 12 there, 35 there, it adds up.
If you want to have some fun, look up Progresso Light Italian Wedding Soup (a particular favorite) and look at all the various entries.
The food database on MFP is crowdsourced, meaning it’s been entered by users- occasionally by manufacturers or restaurant chains.
This means it’s littered with entry errors, whether accidental or deliberate “self deception”, like the people who will enter a chocolate chip cookie as 20 calories for five cookies, or something else ridiculous, to salve their ego or pad their diary. You see a lot of that on the site.
You’ll also see entries for things like “Mel’s lasagna” 10 calories per serving. There’s a lot of people here who, because it works for them, enter an entire recipe. It may be 1,000 calories for the whole recipe and weigh 100 grams. They enter a serving as 1 gr=10 calories and then weigh what they’ve served themselves.
Always be critical of the entries you’re choosing.
If you choose a lot of the same foods-as most people do- you’ll build a database of repeat foods and won’t have to look them up again every time.
Unless you go out of the country for several weeks and eat unfamiliar brands, only to come home and find most your frequent foods have vanished. Ugh!!!!
I received my scale, and wow! There is quite a difference in many items being scanned vs weighed. It is a true eye-opener! Thank you!
I stopped making peanut butter/banana/chocolate protein powder smoothies after I got my food scale
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