Does timing matter with "Calories in Calories out"

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Replies

  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 15,729 Member
    mtaratoot wrote: »
    Does that make sense?

    google sheet: you can use "make a copy" function, save a sheet with fake data populated, and "share it" with a link that can be posted.

    excel similarly could be uploaded to google drive or onedrive and shared with a link vs users to protect anonymity. You could also time limit or just unshare the link depending on what you've used.

    i'll try to follow through what you describe when I'm at a desktop.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,939 Spam Moderator
    @PAV8888

    I am not the author of the sheet, and it has a whole bunch of pages. It also has some other pieces that won't apply to anyone else as it is used for a whole bunch of people to earn points. Maybe I'll see about creating one and temporarily putting it up to share. It will take a while....
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 15,729 Member
    mtaratoot wrote: »
    @PAV8888
    I am not the author of the sheet, and it has a whole bunch of pages. It also has some other pieces that won't apply to anyone else as it is used for a whole bunch of people to earn points. Maybe I'll see about creating one and temporarily putting it up to share. It will take a while....

    No worries! Was curious. I think I can also follow more or less what you wrote.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,939 Spam Moderator
    edited January 2023
    Well, I took on the challenge and created a sheet.

    I populated the first 22 days of the year, up to today, with WILDLY fluctuating weight values from 143 to 205. Yeah. In three weeks... :D You will need to make a local copy, delete all that data, and replace it with your own.

    Note again the data STARTS TO THE FAR RIGHT at what in a normal sheet would be the end and works its way to the beginning. Dates are populated until 21 April, 2024. After that you'd have to add columns and copy the dates and formulas in row 6 into the new columns.

    I even added a graph to show scale weight and trending weight.

    You can "play around" with the scale factor in cell A1. Using a larger number looks farther back in time to get the trend, and a smaller number ignores all but the more recent scale weight data.

    Check out the Google sheet using this link.

    I will leave the link active at least for a while. If I decide to use it for my own data, which I probably won't because I have an Excel sheet, I will replace the dummy data with real data and won't want anyone changing it. For now, this is just a template for your enjoyment.



  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 15,729 Member
    edited January 2023
    You've really locked it up!
    Currently cannot save or copy or even select the cells to copy and paste into another sheet!
    Not even sure how you did it!

    Could you allow the downloading, copying and printing of the file? Without allowing for full editing?

    This google sheet, for example, allows you to make a copy that you can then edit without editing the original:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wM69Wli4wlzAWiWO5QEQFSQAA8CQYpd69ZXuhC92PWQ/edit#gid=0

    Share settings are: People with access: Myself as owner, General Access: Anyone with the Link can View.

    But the one you've done doesn't even allow NOTHING! :disappointed:
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,939 Spam Moderator
    edited January 2023
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    You've really locked up that sucker! Currently cannot save or copy or even select the cells to copy and paste into another sheet!

    Could you allow the downloading, copying and printing of the file? Without allowing for full editing?

    This google sheet, for example, allows you to make a copy that you can then edit. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14k_zGWeklpl05lNqSWN_SK1XzuwnmVHtUfW8Eao5kIE/edit?usp=sharing

    But the one you've done doesn't even allow NOTHING! :disappointed:

    Sorry about that. Try again. The link URL to the spreadsheet didn't change, but here it is again anyway.

    Note too, I made a little change. You don't actually have to add columns and copy the formula for future years if you don't want to keep the old data. The cell that contains the date of 1 January, 2023 (RK3) is the only cell with an actual date. The next cell to the left adds one to get 2 January. That continues to cell C3. If you change the date in cell RK3, all the rest will update. Of course then you'd have to delete all the scale weights.

    If you want to keep the data, you will have to add columns to the right. You'll also have to adjust which data the graph looks at.


    @GhostFaen

    Sorry to clutter up your thread even more. Perhaps you'll be able to use the two spreadsheets to help you achieve your goal, so I won't feel THAT bad about it.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 15,729 Member
    edited January 2023
    feel free to adjust. I never really used that one and haven't touched it these past 5+ years :smiley:

    I've always done the same thing for myself (fitbit vs trend) but using aggregate data as opposed to daily.

    That one was mainly for a couple of MFPeops who were having some trouble at the time.

    I see you already quoted out that sheet... I've since replaced it with a more generic USDA database one in my post! :lol:
  • Hiawassee88
    Hiawassee88 Posts: 35,754 Member
    edited January 2023
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    It seems that what you eat or don’t eat today has an effect a week or so later.


    Indeed. And a reliable result will only really be seen, after at least two weeks, preferably more, in order to be a sure as reasonably achievably that there is no random fluctuation occurring.

    Tom and Bart, this has been the case for me, too. Thanks for confirming it. People throw in the towel because they don't see immediate results. They might even go on a food bender, but staying the course pays off. It's also true that the food bender may not reveal itself until a week or two later. Choices and consequences. There's no such thing as a free lunch. :p Overconsumption math does not lie.

    When you know you're going to pay for it next week or 10 days from now, consistency always pays off. I've experienced too many of these dieting course corrections in the past. I remind myself of those old consequences that followed and it keeps my feet planted on the balance beam.

    Bart, I can moderate myself with food. It took many rodeos to get back to where I started. Childhood. Dieting ruined my balance with food. I don't eliminate any foods and it took deprogramming to get all of those food rules out of my head. It's taken over a decade to do that. Dieting was the all or nothing brainwashing that always worked against me.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 38,129 Community Helper
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Fat gain or loss isn’t immediate so I’m wondering the timeframe they allowed to gauge how much fat was gained with these super high calorie days. It seems that what you eat or don’t eat today has an effect a week or so later.

    BTW, I'd encourage anyone who has such questions to actually watch the videos before critiquing. Buttermore is trained as a scientist (PhD whose doctoral research focused on ovarian cancer screening), though she's a "fitness influencer" these days. The videos are pretty short (10 and 18 minutes), and IMO fairly lively/entertaining.

    The videos include a concise run-down of the physiological mechanisms behind fat gain after consuming a large number of calories at one time, including the (estimated) mathematics of that. The information goes quite far beyond most average people's common knowledge. One of the videos includes Buttermore undergoing a variety of quite technical lab tests (waaaay beyond the home scale!) after consuming the massive number of calories, as part of a study.

    Don't let her appearance deceive you into thinking she eats a lot, then gets on a home scale and prattles about it uninformed. The videos may not be perfect, but it's so very not that.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited January 2023
    Hiawassee88 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    It seems that what you eat or don’t eat today has an effect a week or so later.


    Indeed. And a reliable result will only really be seen, after at least two weeks, preferably more, in order to be a sure as reasonably achievably that there is no random fluctuation occurring.

    Tom and Bart, this has been the case for me, too. Thanks for confirming it. People throw in the towel because they don't see immediate results. They might even go on a food bender, but staying the course pays off. It's also true that the food bender may not reveal itself until a week or two later. Choices and consequences. There's no such thing as a free lunch. :p Overconsumption math does not lie.

    When you know you're going to pay for it next week or 10 days from now, consistency always pays off. I've experienced too many of these dieting course corrections in the past. I remind myself of those old consequences that followed and it keeps my feet planted on the balance beam.

    Bart, I can moderate myself with food. It took many rodeos to get back to where I started. Childhood. Dieting ruined my balance with food. I don't eliminate any foods and it took deprogramming to get all of those food rules out of my head. It's taken over a decade to do that. Dieting was the all or nothing brainwashing that always worked against me.

    Well done. Ultimately, the only thing that is important for weight loss is to be in an energy deficit. There are a myriad of other things that can/could/may/might have an influence, but they are all skirmishes in the margin. Energy deficit is the conditio sine qua non. The other elements may make it more difficult or less difficult to stay in a deficit, so playing around with different "systems" or "recipes" is a good idea, but when these are practiced without keeping the energy deficit in place, you are almost guaranteed to fail.

  • Hiawassee88
    Hiawassee88 Posts: 35,754 Member
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    Hiawassee88 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    It seems that what you eat or don’t eat today has an effect a week or so later.


    Indeed. And a reliable result will only really be seen, after at least two weeks, preferably more, in order to be a sure as reasonably achievably that there is no random fluctuation occurring.

    Tom and Bart, this has been the case for me, too. Thanks for confirming it. People throw in the towel because they don't see immediate results. They might even go on a food bender, but staying the course pays off. It's also true that the food bender may not reveal itself until a week or two later. Choices and consequences. There's no such thing as a free lunch. :p Overconsumption math does not lie.

    When you know you're going to pay for it next week or 10 days from now, consistency always pays off. I've experienced too many of these dieting course corrections in the past. I remind myself of those old consequences that followed and it keeps my feet planted on the balance beam.

    Bart, I can moderate myself with food. It took many rodeos to get back to where I started. Childhood. Dieting ruined my balance with food. I don't eliminate any foods and it took deprogramming to get all of those food rules out of my head. It's taken over a decade to do that. Dieting was the all or nothing brainwashing that always worked against me.

    Well done. Ultimately, the only thing that is important for weight loss is to be in an energy deficit. There are a myriad of other things that can/could/may/might have an influence, but they are all skirmishes in the margin. Energy deficit is the conditio sine qua non. The other elements may make it more difficult or less difficult to stay in a deficit, so playing around with different "systems" or "recipes" is a good idea, but when these are practiced without keeping the energy deficit in place, you are almost guaranteed to fail.

    Bart, you've given me confirmation for two things that were always in the back of my mind. Thanks, Doc.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited January 2023
    Hiawassee88 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    Hiawassee88 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    It seems that what you eat or don’t eat today has an effect a week or so later.


    Indeed. And a reliable result will only really be seen, after at least two weeks, preferably more, in order to be a sure as reasonably achievably that there is no random fluctuation occurring.

    Tom and Bart, this has been the case for me, too. Thanks for confirming it. People throw in the towel because they don't see immediate results. They might even go on a food bender, but staying the course pays off. It's also true that the food bender may not reveal itself until a week or two later. Choices and consequences. There's no such thing as a free lunch. :p Overconsumption math does not lie.

    When you know you're going to pay for it next week or 10 days from now, consistency always pays off. I've experienced too many of these dieting course corrections in the past. I remind myself of those old consequences that followed and it keeps my feet planted on the balance beam.

    Bart, I can moderate myself with food. It took many rodeos to get back to where I started. Childhood. Dieting ruined my balance with food. I don't eliminate any foods and it took deprogramming to get all of those food rules out of my head. It's taken over a decade to do that. Dieting was the all or nothing brainwashing that always worked against me.

    Well done. Ultimately, the only thing that is important for weight loss is to be in an energy deficit. There are a myriad of other things that can/could/may/might have an influence, but they are all skirmishes in the margin. Energy deficit is the conditio sine qua non. The other elements may make it more difficult or less difficult to stay in a deficit, so playing around with different "systems" or "recipes" is a good idea, but when these are practiced without keeping the energy deficit in place, you are almost guaranteed to fail.

    Bart, you've given me confirmation for two things that were always in the back of my mind. Thanks, Doc.
    Glad you like it. I think a lot of problems are caused by oversimplification, where the requirement to have an energy deficit is confused with the methods one can use to achieve such deficit. Randomised trials have shown that there is no fundamental difference between the success rates of different weight loss diets that achieve an energy deficit.

    I see this all too often during "seminars" for the public, where dietitians are desperately trying to simplify things and are starting to say things that are highly misleading because of it. On the other hand, if they give more complete advice, they are called pedantic and boring, so I do feel for them: they just can't win.

    A good example of that would be that "calories don't count". That is just blatantly false. I understand what they are saying, but it does not take hours to find people who take that literally and who really think that energy is unimportant for weight loss and then wonder why they don't get the weight off despite doing everything the dietitian told them.

    We can and should at least try to simplify things as much as possible, but no more than that, because that will lead to problems.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,547 Member
    mtaratoot wrote: »



    Assuming your scale works, weighing at different times of the day can give you insight into how much your weight changes during the day, but it does not provide any additional information about your weight trend over time. It just adds noise to already noisy data. If you can eliminate as many variables as possible, your data will be higher quality.


    agreed. Weighing multiple times a day will show how weight can fluctuate throughout the day however once a day is more than adequate to show a trend especially if the weighing takes place at the same time, preferably first thing in the morning. Some people are actually better off weighing once a week, same day, in the morning, usually Friday as weekday diets tend to be a bit more structured and less “carby” than weekends.

    Some people freak out when there are fluctuations upwards if they weigh daily and once a week can be mentally more comfortable

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