Lies of food.
Replies
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I think THE MOST IMPORTANT part of all this is that there are so many people who just have no idea what they are eating. They don't know what's in their food. They don't know about how dirty meat is. They assume b/c something is "natural" it is safe and healthy. THey don't know what it means to genetically modify food. I think articles like this are important - NOT to scare people, but to inform them. I want to KNOW more information so I can make a more informed DECISION.0
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You're probably right about me giving up. When I first started as a Fitness professional, I was adamant about not eating any processed foods, eating whole foods only and no junk at all. I even went as far at protesting at C&H sugar in Crockett CA about how sugar was the issue with weight gain. That was in '83. But when you bang your head against the wall enough, it starts to take a toll. I decided to focus my energies on what I could control and that lead me to just making sure that clients (myself too) just ate sensibly and controlled their calories. I eat good 80% of the time and the other 20% is my favorite foods.
1) Okay. Well I guess my main point wasn't about the "scary" stuff in food, but just the plain old filler and nonsense -- especially food that is doctored up to represent food (the juice, the "blueberries"). I was commenting on a more global level. I honestly didn't read the article with an eye for the scare mongering because I've heard it all before. It doesn't frighten me, but it saddens me.
2) I'm not afraid of celluose either. I was simply using that as an example of how you seemed to be saying "take your filler and deal with it."
3) Me too. Which is why I am here trying to engage in conversation that might shift our behavior from a grassroots level instead of lobbying congress. But you just seem to have given up. And that's fine, but it doesn't mean that some people--on this site especially--are not open to learning more about food.
It's good that you are trying to educate them and I have respect for that.0 -
Also, in your original message you said the "scare mongering" is propaganda.
Here's the definition of propaganda that I'm familiar with "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
So, since you seemed to be taking a rather negative stance, I assume you meant that this was the harmful propaganda. Harmful to whom, exactly? Kraft? General Mills? Those who live on the margins and can't afford real food and thus shouldn't be made to feel bad about what their food system is feeding them? (To them I say, if this "propaganda" does make you feel bad about what the food system is feeding them, rice and dried beans and frozen vegetables can be purchased for a very reasonable price and are real food._0 -
Too much information can cause paralysis. If all meat out there is "dirty" are people going to just raise their own cows, pigs, chickens, etc? Genetically modified doesn't always mean bad. If we could remove the gene that causes "Down syndrome" from human genes, would that be bad? Consequently if a seed is genetically modified so that it can withstand drought and not affect the nutritional value, taste, digestibility, etc. would that be bad too?I think THE MOST IMPORTANT part of all this is that there are so many people who just have no idea what they are eating. They don't know what's in their food. They don't know about how dirty meat is. They assume b/c something is "natural" it is safe and healthy. THey don't know what it means to genetically modify food. I think articles like this are important - NOT to scare people, but to inform them. I want to KNOW more information so I can make a more informed DECISION.
While I do agree that information is important, biased viewpoints can sway people to thinking that way.0 -
3) Me too. Which is why I am here trying to engage in conversation that might shift our behavior from a grassroots level instead of lobbying congress. But you just seem to have given up. And that's fine, but it doesn't mean that some people--on this site especially--are not open to learning more about food.
Thanks to this thread - I plan to try my hand at baking my own bread and bagels this winter. I want to look into healthier meats (which has been my on going goal since watching Food, Inc.) Thanks to another forum I am (was) active on - I found and signed up for a CSA this year. It has actually been quite life changing for me. I won't be storming any castles to change the way things are done... but I like to learn and know things so I can make my own decisions about what I want to change.0 -
Why use the word WOOD PULP instead of cellulose? If you said "cellulose is added in food" would the impact of the statement attract the same attention as wood pulp? Of course not, because people don't normally think of themselves eating wood so using it catches their eye. And yes saying it this way does harm producers if people think it's actually "wood" in their food when cellulose is found in all plant material and vegetables. Not to mention that there's no real harm in it.Also, in your original message you said the "scare mongering" is propaganda.
Here's the definition of propaganda that I'm familiar with "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
So, since you seemed to be taking a rather negative stance, I assume you meant that this was the harmful propaganda. Harmful to whom, exactly? Kraft? General Mills? Those who live on the margins and can't afford real food and thus shouldn't be made to feel bad about what their food system is feeding them? (To them I say, if this "propaganda" does make you feel bad about what the food system is feeding them, rice and dried beans and frozen vegetables can be purchased for a very reasonable price and are real food._0 -
Too much information can cause paralysis. If all meat out there is "dirty" are people going to just raise their own cows, pigs, chickens, etc? Genetically modified doesn't always mean bad. If we could remove the gene that causes "Down syndrome" from human genes, would that be bad? Consequently if a seed is genetically modified so that it can withstand drought and not affect the nutritional value, taste, digestibility, etc. would that be bad too?I think THE MOST IMPORTANT part of all this is that there are so many people who just have no idea what they are eating. They don't know what's in their food. They don't know about how dirty meat is. They assume b/c something is "natural" it is safe and healthy. THey don't know what it means to genetically modify food. I think articles like this are important - NOT to scare people, but to inform them. I want to KNOW more information so I can make a more informed DECISION.
While I do agree that information is important, biased viewpoints can sway people to thinking that way.
Honestly- I HAVE looked into raising my own chickens. I have thought about hunting with my dad (venison anyone??). Doing some online searching today... I discovered a ton of farms in my area. I thrive on info.
Genetically modified... I am on the fence about that. Have you ever seen Penn & Teller's BS on Showtime? GREAT show. They did an episode on genetically modified stuff. It def. made me think. Though, in reading, I found a lot of people think Celiac Disease comes from genetically modifying wheat. IDK. I suppose there is no way to know 100% about anything. Genetically tweaking things so there's no Down's in a whole different topic. Modifying a grain of wheat seems a bit less involved (ethically) than modifying a human being.
Biased viewpoints can and do sway people. It always has been and always will be. It also seems to me that "facts" change over time. Where people go wrong (IMHO) is that they decide they believe something and that is that. I like to try to keep an open mind. Just because I BELIEVE something today doesn't mean someone won't prove me wrong tomorrow.0 -
I hate that they do this too our food, totally grosses me out....but then when my tummy is rumbling as I pass Mickey D's I usually forget
maybe I need to print and post in my car. 0 -
Why use the word WOOD PULP instead of cellulose? If you said "cellulose is added in food" would the impact of the statement attract the same attention as wood pulp? Of course not, because people don't normally think of themselves eating wood so using it catches their eye. And yes saying it this way does harm producers if people think it's actually "wood" in their food when cellulose is found in all plant material and vegetables. Not to mention that there's no real harm in it.Also, in your original message you said the "scare mongering" is propaganda.
Here's the definition of propaganda that I'm familiar with "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
So, since you seemed to be taking a rather negative stance, I assume you meant that this was the harmful propaganda. Harmful to whom, exactly? Kraft? General Mills? Those who live on the margins and can't afford real food and thus shouldn't be made to feel bad about what their food system is feeding them? (To them I say, if this "propaganda" does make you feel bad about what the food system is feeding them, rice and dried beans and frozen vegetables can be purchased for a very reasonable price and are real food._
I DO also have to say - I AM glad you pointed out that cellulose is found in all plants. And there isn't mulch in my bread. ~phew!~ Though... still... I don't like "fillers" in my food... I think of "fillers" as something they put in dog food... and even then, I would (and have) advise people not to feed their dogs food with so many fillers.0 -
I saw that episode with the Penn and Teller. (BS is one of my favorite shows) Couldn't believe that the seed wasn't accepted by a country that was literally starving itself.
Honestly- I HAVE looked into raising my own chickens. I have thought about hunting with my dad (venison anyone??). Doing some online searching today... I discovered a ton of farms in my area. I thrive on info.
Genetically modified... I am on the fence about that. Have you ever seen Penn & Teller's BS on Showtime? GREAT show. They did an episode on genetically modified stuff. It def. made me think. Though, in reading, I found a lot of people think Celiac Disease comes from genetically modifying wheat. IDK. I suppose there is no way to know 100% about anything. Genetically tweaking things so there's no Down's in a whole different topic. Modifying a grain of wheat seems a bit less involved (ethically) than modifying a human being.
Biased viewpoints can and do sway people. It always has been and always will be. It also seems to me that "facts" change over time. Where people go wrong (IMHO) is that they decide they believe something and that is that. I like to try to keep an open mind. Just because I BELIEVE something today doesn't mean someone won't prove me wrong tomorrow.
I'm good at keeping an open mind. I didn't think Unions were helpful at all till I saw how a company I used to work for try to nix the Union and tried to underpay workers and cut their health insurance. I thought Capitalism was great years ago, but changed my tune as soon as I learned about how the richest people want to keep the less fortunate unfortunate. Especially with this last mortgage bailout and no CEO's of the banks going to trial or jail.0 -
I saw that episode with the Penn and Teller. (BS is one of my favorite shows) Couldn't believe that the seed wasn't accepted by a country that was literally starving itself.
Honestly- I HAVE looked into raising my own chickens. I have thought about hunting with my dad (venison anyone??). Doing some online searching today... I discovered a ton of farms in my area. I thrive on info.
Genetically modified... I am on the fence about that. Have you ever seen Penn & Teller's BS on Showtime? GREAT show. They did an episode on genetically modified stuff. It def. made me think. Though, in reading, I found a lot of people think Celiac Disease comes from genetically modifying wheat. IDK. I suppose there is no way to know 100% about anything. Genetically tweaking things so there's no Down's in a whole different topic. Modifying a grain of wheat seems a bit less involved (ethically) than modifying a human being.
Biased viewpoints can and do sway people. It always has been and always will be. It also seems to me that "facts" change over time. Where people go wrong (IMHO) is that they decide they believe something and that is that. I like to try to keep an open mind. Just because I BELIEVE something today doesn't mean someone won't prove me wrong tomorrow.
I'm good at keeping an open mind. I didn't think Unions were helpful at all till I saw how a company I used to work for try to nix the Union and tried to underpay workers and cut their health insurance. I thought Capitalism was great years ago, but changed my tune as soon as I learned about how the richest people want to keep the less fortunate unfortunate. Especially with this last mortgage bailout and no CEO's of the banks going to trial or jail.
Totally off topic - but do you know if they are doing any more seasons or if they canceled the show?
also - I hope you don't think I was saying that you don't have an open mind - was mainly speaking in general terms. Hubs gets bored of me talking about this stuff... it is nice to have a "conversation" with someone new!
I used to work for Wal-Mart... ~phew~ They were anti-union. I think unions have their places. I think some are good - some are bad just like anything else, I suppose.
Mortgage bailouts... ugh. I find it discouraging that it is ok for our government to be trillions of dollars in debt... but it is bad for me to be in debt.0 -
I saw that episode with the Penn and Teller. (BS is one of my favorite shows) Couldn't believe that the seed wasn't accepted by a country that was literally starving itself.
Honestly- I HAVE looked into raising my own chickens. I have thought about hunting with my dad (venison anyone??). Doing some online searching today... I discovered a ton of farms in my area. I thrive on info.
Genetically modified... I am on the fence about that. Have you ever seen Penn & Teller's BS on Showtime? GREAT show. They did an episode on genetically modified stuff. It def. made me think. Though, in reading, I found a lot of people think Celiac Disease comes from genetically modifying wheat. IDK. I suppose there is no way to know 100% about anything. Genetically tweaking things so there's no Down's in a whole different topic. Modifying a grain of wheat seems a bit less involved (ethically) than modifying a human being.
Biased viewpoints can and do sway people. It always has been and always will be. It also seems to me that "facts" change over time. Where people go wrong (IMHO) is that they decide they believe something and that is that. I like to try to keep an open mind. Just because I BELIEVE something today doesn't mean someone won't prove me wrong tomorrow.
I'm good at keeping an open mind. I didn't think Unions were helpful at all till I saw how a company I used to work for try to nix the Union and tried to underpay workers and cut their health insurance. I thought Capitalism was great years ago, but changed my tune as soon as I learned about how the richest people want to keep the less fortunate unfortunate. Especially with this last mortgage bailout and no CEO's of the banks going to trial or jail.
Totally off topic - but do you know if they are doing any more seasons or if they canceled the show? Yeah - the country starving and not accepting GM seed... geez! Even IF that DOES actually CAUSE celiac disease... not everyone would get it and there would be lots of people not starving to death.
also - I hope you don't think I was saying that you don't have an open mind - was mainly speaking in general terms. Hubs gets bored of me talking about this stuff... it is nice to have a "conversation" with someone new!
I used to work for Wal-Mart... ~phew~ They were anti-union. I think unions have their places. I think some are good - some are bad just like anything else, I suppose.
Mortgage bailouts... ugh. I find it discouraging that it is ok for our government to be trillions of dollars in debt... but it is bad for me to be in debt.0 -
I have to say a big thank you to the person who pointed out that cellulose is not just found in wood. Cellulose makes up the cell wall of any plant, and we never digest it well, be it cellulose from lettuce...most of it goes straight through our body. The other thing I would like to question is the source of the information in the original article that started this discussion. How do they know the "cellulose" in all these items are from wood? I think we need to read everything with a critical eye, including this article and food labels. I personally wasn't shocked that the little blueberry bits in many store-bought muffin mixes are not real blueberrry...that's because I've seen real blueberries. I figured it out.
I do agree that the quality of our food is probably not what it was years and years ago. The emphasis has definitely, like with everything else, been on quantity over quality. We are farmers, so we are quite familiar with this concept. Anyone who has grown their own garden is also quite familiar with the idea that a tomato or cucumber from your own garden will taste WAY better than a store-bought one. You can also test both tomatoes and find a chemically-based explanation for why one tastes better. We have a lot to learn about food, and I think we all need to think critically and do the best we can to make informed choices.0 -
Why use the word WOOD PULP instead of cellulose? If you said "cellulose is added in food" would the impact of the statement attract the same attention as wood pulp? Of course not, because people don't normally think of themselves eating wood so using it catches their eye. And yes saying it this way does harm producers if people think it's actually "wood" in their food when cellulose is found in all plant material and vegetables. Not to mention that there's no real harm in it.Also, in your original message you said the "scare mongering" is propaganda.
Here's the definition of propaganda that I'm familiar with "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
So, since you seemed to be taking a rather negative stance, I assume you meant that this was the harmful propaganda. Harmful to whom, exactly? Kraft? General Mills? Those who live on the margins and can't afford real food and thus shouldn't be made to feel bad about what their food system is feeding them? (To them I say, if this "propaganda" does make you feel bad about what the food system is feeding them, rice and dried beans and frozen vegetables can be purchased for a very reasonable price and are real food._
Sorry. You're right it was for effect. I should have just said "filler." I don't think it is dangerous but I do think it is unnecessary so, in that respect, I hope it does catch someone's eye and maybe just make them think.
But you didn't answer my question about the "propaganda."
Edit on the topic of engineering wheat. There is research out there that it is more than just celiacs who might be harmed by wheat. I'm NOT trying to scare monger or propagandize. I am just saying that I believe we have only just begin to understand the detrimental role wheat plays in modern disease. That's my prediction, at least. (I don't think anyone had any ill intent, of course, and I certainly don't want anyone to starve.)0 -
Oh well. Despite being artificial, it's still delicious. Nomnomnom.0
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Why use the word WOOD PULP instead of cellulose? If you said "cellulose is added in food" would the impact of the statement attract the same attention as wood pulp? Of course not, because people don't normally think of themselves eating wood so using it catches their eye. And yes saying it this way does harm producers if people think it's actually "wood" in their food when cellulose is found in all plant material and vegetables. Not to mention that there's no real harm in it. EDIT: If it affects their sales because people view it as WOOD in the food, then it's harmful because it's not true.But you didn't answer my question about the "propaganda."
Here's the definition of propaganda that I'm familiar with "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
I'm sure that there will people who may have adverse effects against any form of wheat whether genetically altered or not. I'm allergic to Penicillin, but I wouldn't disregard it because it helps more people than it affects. I'll say the same with genetically altered wheat. If it can feed more at a lesser price, then I would support it as long as it's deemed as safe by FDA and USDA.Edit on the topic of engineering wheat. There is research out there that it is more than just celiacs who might be harmed by wheat. I'm NOT trying to scare monger or propagandize. I am just saying that I believe we have only just begin to understand the detrimental role wheat plays in modern disease. That's my prediction, at least. (I don't think anyone had any ill intent, of course, and I certainly don't want anyone to starve.)0 -
To the OP, this article doesn't surprise me ... food & pharma corps and agribusiness are in the business or making money. End of story. Sadly most people make their food choices based on calories and whether it will make them fat, and not if it's a healthy choice. This often means choosing food products and beverages that have only a passing resemblance to actual food, attractive by virtue of the colorful packaging and claims of being nutritious, low calorie, and the generic 'good for you' because of perhaps one ingredient.
As has been pointed out by many posters, it's their choice to eat these foods in preference to taking the time and effort to source healthier choices. Sixty years ago people spent 35-40% of their income on food; we now spend about 13% ... evidently a shift in priorities has occurred because food is actually cheaper comparatively at present. In a culture that values self reliance, individual rights & freedoms, and demands accountability in government, it's strikes me as odd that there is this submission and acceptance of poorer quality food choices than our grandparents had. How disturbing is that? If you don't care about what you choose to nourish your body, that's your decision; but the apathy leaves the door wide open for corporations to influence government policy that affects things like school lunches, nutrition education tools in schools (which are developed and supplied not by educators, but by food companies), dietary guidelines, agricultural subsidies, labelling of foods, and more.
Decades ago the US Surgeon General observed that 68% of all diseases in the US are diet related. Wonder how that stat has changed? Do we have anyone to blame but ourselves?0 -
Probably not much. And because we have much better medical technology than when my grandparents were alive, people are living longer.Decades ago the US Surgeon General observed that 68% of all diseases in the US are diet related. Wonder how that stat has changed? Do we have anyone to blame but ourselves?
You can be healthy eating foods from the market even if half of it is processed. To say that this is an impossibility would be have to be proven by clinical study.0 -
bump to read later0
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- People have to realize that even though food has become more "artificial" over the past 30 years, it has also become a lot more safe, and a lot of these "artificial" practices that are becoming more prevalent is due to law suits.
someone gets sick from food and they get thousands and millions of dollars. Even if it was the consumers fault. Look what diseases like Ecoli and Salmanella have done to restaurants.0 -
Why use the word WOOD PULP instead of cellulose? If you said "cellulose is added in food" would the impact of the statement attract the same attention as wood pulp? Of course not, because people don't normally think of themselves eating wood so using it catches their eye. And yes saying it this way does harm producers if people think it's actually "wood" in their food when cellulose is found in all plant material and vegetables. Not to mention that there's no real harm in it. EDIT: If it affects their sales because people view it as WOOD in the food, then it's harmful because it's not true.
Okay, I understand where you are coming from. However, I argue that identifying it as sourced from wood is important. Not because it is harmful but because it serves to identify how extraneous the added cellulose is to the food. This is not like adding some extra orange pulp to what is already orange juice (sorta) to make it extra pulpy because people like it that way. I guess I just took this as a strongly worded article that is trying to catch people's attention so they think and question for just a second about what goes into their food (harmful or not). I agree that "horrifying" is a bit of a stretch. But calling it "propaganda" because it might make a small dent in the giant food conglomerates' sales also seems like a bit of a stretch.
I'm sure that there will people who may have adverse effects against any form of wheat whether genetically altered or not. I'm allergic to Penicillin, but I wouldn't disregard it because it helps more people than it affects. I'll say the same with genetically altered wheat. If it can feed more at a lesser price, then I would support it as long as it's deemed as safe by FDA and USDA.Edit on the topic of engineering wheat. There is research out there that it is more than just celiacs who might be harmed by wheat. I'm NOT trying to scare monger or propagandize. I am just saying that I believe we have only just begin to understand the detrimental role wheat plays in modern disease. That's my prediction, at least. (I don't think anyone had any ill intent, of course, and I certainly don't want anyone to starve.)
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It is thought to be much more insidious than an anaphylactic reaction that one might have to something like Penicillin and, thus, far more difficult to easily identify. You can check out Dr. William Davis's new book Wheat Belly, if you're interested. I haven't had the chance to read it myself. But it also isn't just him saying it. Again, I'm not trying to fear monger or propagandize against the grain industry. I'm just putting it out there and predicting that we might be only just now understanding the harmful effects of some foods.
As for being deemed safe by the FDA and USDA. Maybe I need a tinfoil hat or something but I am a bit of a Libertarian at heart and I take pretty much anything a large governmental organization says with a grain of salt. I don't believe they would have any incentive at all to dig into this research because no one is saying it is immediately toxic (obviously it isn't). What they are saying, however, is that maybe it shouldn't be a staple of our food supply -- I really can't see the FDA or USDA ever getting on board with that.
But you're right, it can feed more at a lesser price. But, if it is truly contributing in large part to diseases of civilization as people claim, then isn't the real cost to us just being delayed?0 -
Okay, I think we both have good points and have demonstrated that debates like this are educational for both sides.Okay, I understand where you are coming from. However, I argue that identifying it as sourced from wood is important. Not because it is harmful but because it serves to identify how extraneous the added cellulose is to the food. This is not like adding some extra orange pulp to what is already orange juice (sorta) to make it extra pulpy because people like it that way. I guess I just took this as a strongly worded article that is trying to catch people's attention so they think and question for just a second about what goes into their food (harmful or not). I agree that "horrifying" is a bit of a stretch. But calling it "propaganda" because it might make a small dent in the giant food conglomerates' sales also seems like a bit of a stretch.
While I believe that the FDA and USDA can be manipulated to a point (I thought the banning of steroids and the amount of money being used to fight it now is a total waste of funds brought on by political motives) I do believe that the intent is to protect Americans from chemicals or substances that have been clinically studied and shown to harm people. I know that some will say that any chemicals added to food is harmful, but again we have to make it economically affordable for EVERYONE to eat.As for being deemed safe by the FDA and USDA. Maybe I need a tinfoil hat or something but I am a bit of a Libertarian at heart and I take pretty much anything a large governmental organization says with a grain of salt. I don't believe they would have any incentive at all to dig into this research because no one is saying it is immediately toxic (obviously it isn't). What they are saying, however, is that maybe it shouldn't be a staple of our food supply -- I really can't see the FDA or USDA ever getting on board with that.
But you're right, it can feed more at a lesser price. But, if it is truly contributing in large part to diseases of civilization as people claim, then isn't the real cost to us just being delayed?
Like anything else, if something is truly harming us, then I'm sure it will be merged out of our environment. Lead paint, asbestos, and leaded gasoline are a few examples.0 -
I think the bottom line is still very simple:
Much of the food today is manufactured from one set of ingredients but marketed to imply it is made from something else altogether.
And if people knew what was really in it, they would probably buy less of it.0 -
I don't disagree. In fact almost all marketing for weight loss or health uses words of camoflauge to sell for the almighty dollar.I think the bottom line is still very simple:
Much of the food today is manufactured from one set of ingredients but marketed to imply it is made from something else altogether.
And if people knew what was really in it, they would probably buy less of it.0
This discussion has been closed.
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