Do you consider prescription weight loss medications cheating?
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paperpudding wrote: »if I go to the (medical) doctor and complain about - anything - she's going to recommend a pill. I mean, that's their job. Prescribe medicine. They don't care if there are interactions, some of them serious. Neither do the pharmacists. People who I would think would warn me about drug/drug interactions just don't, and I think that's malpractice.
Huge generalisation there
that isnt my experience of working in health care at all.
Doctors I have worked with certainly do care about side effects and certainly are encouraging patients to live healthy lifestyles..
Their job is far more than just prescribing medication
and certainly most people I know, and most of the patients where I work, are not on anxiety meds - can't speak for your circle of people but I do not think that is the norm at all for people doing what you called 'normal living'.
Well, I did get put on 12 different meds, some of which had serious side effects, and the drug interactions were right there on the drug circulars. I even had a good (I thought) doctor: Harvard educated, University of Washington internal medicine doctor. She had 15 minutes with me and any complaint I had she threw a new pill at instead saying (not even once) "Hey, take a walk. Lose 80 pounds."
I have a lot of distrust of the U.S. medical system and doctors. Your mileage may vary in a completely different health care system and country. Aren't you in AU? I'm glad things are different there. Unfortunately I can't move to AU.
I wasn't the one talking about anxiety meds...0 -
I know you weren't the one who commented on anxiety meds - my post was in answer to 2 previous posts, one of which was yours.
yes I am in Australia and yes we have different medical system.
but just like US, one experience with one doctor doesnt equate to all doctors in the whole country
I dont dispute your experience with the one doctor you describe - however I do question the broad brush of generalising from that to the whole of doctors in the whole of the country.1 -
NoNo. After all, I took Zyban to help me quit smoking when the good old "gee, just stop smoking" approach didn't work. I don't care how I achieved ex-smoker status, just that I did it.
I wouldn't like to see weight loss meds prescribed without some sort of behavioural modification/dietary education program being delivered alongside though. They're a tool, not a solution.3 -
Nopaperpudding wrote: »I know you weren't the one who commented on anxiety meds - my post was in answer to 2 previous posts, one of which was yours.
yes I am in Australia and yes we have different medical system.
but just like US, one experience with one doctor doesnt equate to all doctors in the whole country
I dont dispute your experience with the one doctor you describe - however I do question the broad brush of generalising from that to the whole of doctors in the whole of the country.
Anecdotes aren't data, that's true. I am not literally claiming that every single college-educated white American woman age 30-39 is taking prescription anxiety medication (after all, I'm not.)
But is it incredibly common? Yes. I believe I called it a "meme." I think it's a high enough percentage among my own acquaintance that I'm more surprised more of us don't look around and go, "Something isn't right here. Maybe the problem isn't me, but the expectations surrounding this life I'm having."
Similarly, I have had an experience like cmriverside's with a doctor. Thankfully, really only one has been like that and I decided to not see her again, and that was a reasonable option for me. I would not claim that every doctor in the US is like that. But I haven't just read about it here or experienced it myself, it's also been common among family and friends. I have had more than one medical professional agree that it's a worrisome trend in the field. I am scrupulous about who I see or who my children see.
Real lived experiences count too, even if they're hard to measure.2 -
Real lived experiences count too, even if they're hard to measure.
yes they do. I guess that includes my real life experience of working in general practices for over a decade too.
and even your own " Thankfully, really only one has been like that and I decided to not see her again, and that was a reasonable option for me' would seem to be saying the others for you have not been like that
and there is confirmation bias - that applies to all of us.
what you originally said was "For my demographic it's basically become a meme that we're all on anxiety meds. And to be honest, except for my little subgroup of friends who have chosen to opt out of a lot of what's considered normal living these days, yeah, uh, the meme isn't a lie.'
which would seem to be saying everyone, except people living like you, are on anxiety meds
and I highly doubt that is so - that most people are on anxiety meds.
Objectively, it certainly isnt so for the 3000 or so patients registered at our practice, most of whom live what you called 'normal living' ie mainstream lifestyle.
some are of course, but very far from all or most .
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NoI would hope it’s being cautiously prescribed, just like I would hope any other medication is being cautiously prescribed.
The reality is that many people become fat due to factors they can’t control. Poverty often means no access to fresh foods, no time to cook healthy meals, and no time or money to exercise. Some medications cause weight gain. Some people have a history of disordered eating and aren’t well enough to lose weight without retriggering their disorder. If this medication helps them avoid the risks of obesity and they can tolerate the side effects, why shouldn’t they take it?
It’s very telling to me that the people here who are against it have either justified their argument by being against all medications or by treating adipose tissue as a moral failing.1 -
NoI have looked at weight loss drugs in the past but in my country they are expensive and not everyone can afford to pay for them.0
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if I go to the (medical) doctor and complain about - anything - she's going to recommend a pill. I mean, that's their job. Prescribe medicine. They don't care if there are interactions, some of them serious. Neither do the pharmacists. People who I would think would warn me about drug/drug interactions just don't, and I think that's malpractice.paperpudding wrote: »Huge generalisation there
that isnt my experience of working in health care at all.
Doctors I have worked with certainly do care about side effects and certainly are encouraging patients to live healthy lifestyles..
Their job is far more than just prescribing medication
and certainly most people I know, and most of the patients where I work, are not on anxiety meds - can't speak for your circle of people but I do not think that is the norm at all for people doing what you called 'normal living'.
I realize this is an anecdote, but I ended up in the ER last year from a side effect of a med that in retrospect should have been completely predictable.
The replacement med also had unacceptable side effects, which I didn't realize were caused by the med, and neither did any of the many medical professional to whom I complained about it. I finally figured it out by coincidence here on the MFP forums. I stopped the med and things finally got back to normal.1 -
YesI do not feel these “medications” are fixes but bandaids. I’m still shocked at the number of food diaries I see that are examples of people pursuing weight loss/caloric reduction, simply through eating less junk/highly processed foods, no real food, no fruit, no veg, no water but diet sodas instead. Until you address the insulin resistance by removing the sugars and sugar substitutes, you may lose the weight by restricting calories, decrease your metabolism further, but gain it back even faster than before because of the further metabolic damage. America is now 43% diabetic with a forecast of hitting 50% in 7 years. An additional 45% is estimated to be metabolically unfit…meaning pre-diabetic, most of which do not know it. Until we individually take responsibility for our health (not just our waist line) we are doomed to meet with disappointment. No institution wants us fit and healthy because there is no money in it. Big food, big pharma, insurance industry and government want a sick, fat, sugar dependent population. So whereas I don’t think the word “cheating” is appropriate, I do not believe these “medicines” are a fix. I believe they will allow a person to circumvent a root cause without eliminating the root cause which will remain a problem after the weight loss is achieved. The problem is boiled down to…nobody likes discomfort. Cravings for sugar, fat and salt are uncomfortable. Feeling “denied” is uncomfortable. However, none of those will harm you beyond a week of detox symptoms. Whereas, those miracle drugs have an entire list of potential side effects which usually include many that are serious. Until the individual addresses the addiction cycle of eating processed foods high in insulin resistance causing sugars, and endocrine disrupting chemicals, no drug will lead them to the solution they seek.6
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YesIt’s cheating if you cheat yourself out of learning how to loose the weight properly and maintain it. More than that, I’d be concerned about using drugs designed for diabetics that are already in short supply for them.2
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"Cheating" isn't the issue. It's not a competition with other people, it's about health. The real problem with these drugs is that they don't solve the underlying problem which is poor eating habits. They will just address the symptom, which is the weight, and when a person stops taking them they will likely gain it all back because they didn't fix their lifestyle. In addition, there are dangerous potential side effects, which could possibly be worse than a few extra pounds.
To me it seems similar to bariatric surgery...just less extreme. That also has a high failure rate. A girl I went to high school with had the surgery a few years ago. From her facebook posts, it is obvious she is still obese...although less so...and has had various hospital visits since some of which are due to complications of the surgery. She is frequently posting recipes for very sugary desserts and high carb and fried foods. She went through a major surgery...and did not change the lifestyle that put her in that position in the first place. She's a nice person and I feel bad for her...but I am amazed that she can't see the problem here.
I feel like irresponsible doctors are pushing these drugs (and surgeries) to patients due to a profit motive. I have another friend who is not even obese. She is literally only 10 or 15 pounds overweight. She just had her annual checkup and her doctor actually pitched her new weight loss program that would give these drugs. Of course, it's out of pocket since insurance doesn't cover it. So it's a nice cash business for the doctor who is pitching this drug to patients who have no business even considering such a medication. BTW, I asked and she said the doctor made no mention of side effects or the need to take it long-term. Frankly, I find that disgusting.
People just need to do the work. Yes, it requires changing some habits. It requires a little self-denial. But it comes with no negative side effects and no dependence on risky drug.4 -
NoJust like I wouldn't consider it cheating if someone who was underweight went on medication to increase their appetite or help them gain weight, I don't consider meds helping us go the other direction cheating either.
I honestly have a hard time why anyone would think of it as cheating except if we are assigning some kind of moral weight to the concept of weight loss, as though you have to suffer to do it or you are somehow screwing up.
I personally think the point is that someday, we will BE a certain weight. The journey we take to get there does not matter as long as it's not hurting anyone, and that applies for gaining or losing weight.4 -
I’m still shocked at the number of food diaries I see that are examples of people pursuing weight loss/caloric reduction, simply through eating less junk/highly processed foods, no real food, no fruit, no veg, no water but diet sodas instead. Until you address the insulin resistance by removing the sugars and sugar substitutes, you may lose the weight by restricting calories, decrease your metabolism further, but gain it back even faster than before because of the further metabolic damage.
maybe people just don't bother recording water in their diaries - i know I didnt, although I drink it every day.
So you might not know as much about people as you think you do by looking at their diaries.
Sugar substitutes or any other 'shocking to you ' changes people make don't mean they are any more likely to regain the weight - as long as people keep up whatever changes they made to lose weight in maitenance then they will maintain at goal.5 -
If it helps someone with extra time to figure out how they'll implement lifestyle changes that will last a lifetime to help with their weight, then it's a good thing, otherwise it's one very expensive lesson in futility. Cheers0
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For me yes it would certainly be cheating. But, if you are extraordinarily obese then take the pills. Anything to help knock off that first 50 lbs or so can give you a much higher chance of success if your doctor agrees.0
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NoFor me yes it would certainly be cheating...
So, not in any way trying to be facetious, but I truly don't understand why it would be cheating for you. Like, I guess my questions is: when you think about weight loss, do you have some internal rules for them? And if so, what are the rules of weight loss that mean meds would be cheating? And what made you pick the rules you did?1 -
NoI spent a lot of years believing it was cheating. But, as I have gotten older, I realized that mentality gave me an odd sense of superiority. "Look at me, I don't need help!" However, this is not a game or a contest.
Obesity happens for a multitude of reasons, those within our control, many not. But, ultimately, whether it is lack of education, financial means, or mental or physical issues, or another reason, obesity causes so damage. To a body, to a family via cyclical issues, even societally.
These drugs are necessary for some, and no judgement. Whatever it takes to get healthy. I do feel that it is too easy to get these meds right now, with all the new and shiny drugs. And the potential side effects are probably not highlighted as they should be. There should be guidelines. I think someone mentioned education to go along with it and I think that would be ideal. Make it part of the package.
So many people haven't a clue what they are doing, or how to truly help themselves in a way that is sustainable. I know, I was a big fan of the whole deprivation route, with a little of the exercise so hard you literally damage yourself and have to give up mentality. Doesn't work, not long term.
Anyways, oy...that is a lot of words to say nope, it is not cheating, lol. I wish the best to anyone trying to get healthier, however they do it, so long as they are trying to be as educated as possible and safe.1 -
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chris_in_cal wrote: »
Pretty sure I must've written unclearly, because you've certainly not understood what I was trying to communicate. I do care about other people, and respect their decisions. That's the point. I don't need to have an opinion about their very personal decision to use weight loss medications. If I were making that decision for myself, it would be irrelevant to me what other people - outside my medical team - think, especially in terms as judgemental as "cheating" or "not cheating".2 -
agree with the 'don't care' sentiment- same as painting my house - don't care what color other people choose - nor what they think I should choose, the choices we make are personal to us and endless... this is just another choice.
however, when i am in the process of gathering information so I can make a choice, i will seek the opinions and experiences of others, sort it and make a choice.
as to the new weight loss 'glp-1' class of drugs - i have some concerns of the side effects, the manipulation of the brain - are they addictive or cause dependance? how is this different from using drugs or alcohol or what not. If the effect of the drug on hunger evaporates after a person stops and most regain, then i 'personally' imho am not inclined to try them.... but I would consider them a tool and not cheating and respect the decision of those who do try them - as they are legal to use.0
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