Proper Human Diet
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USDA data.
https://ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2005/november/us-food-consumption-up-16-percent-since-1970/#:~:text=The%20increase%20in%20food%20available%20for%20consumption%20resulted,for%20plate%20waste%2C%20spoilage%2C%20and%20other%20food%20losses%29.
The increase in food available for consumption resulted in a corresponding jump in calories, from 2,234 calories per person per day in 1970 to 2,757 calories in 2003 (after adjusting for plate waste, spoilage, and other food losses). Per capita consumption of fats and oils, grains, vegetables, and sugars/sweeteners led the way. Between 1970 and 2003, total per capita consumption of added fats and oils rose by 63 percent, grain consumption by 43 percent, vegetable consumption by 24 percent, and sugar and sweetener consumption by 19 percent. Annual corn sweetener consumption increased to 79 pounds in 2003, up 400 percent from 1970. This steep rise in corn sweetener consumption is largely due to high-fructose corn syrup, a low-cost substitute for sugar in beverages.
Even with the mid-1990s push to cut dietary fat, added fats and oils accounted for an extra 216 calories per person per day—or 42 percent of the 523-calorie increase between 1970 and 2003. Grains and sugars contributed 188 and 76 added calories. Only in dairy products did daily calories decline (11 calories), partly due to the switch from whole to low-fat milk.3 -
rileysowner wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »No offense to the OP (who hasn't bothered showing up again for any discussion) but I find it mind-boggling that so-called authors can continue to trot out the same old diet ideas, package them in a book blaring with hyperbolic quotes all over it about being "ground breaking" and people will continue to shell out money for it.
No to the thousandth power to giving up carbs, as a means of weight loss or EVER. (Ahem, for me. Not telling anyone else what to do.)
I quit carbs eons ago, and I was pretty into it: made up recipes with all the usual suspects (cauliflower pizza crust, anyone?) and told any & everyone about this rad new eating plan that was going to make weight fall right off of me. I don't even know if it did because I couldn't stand not living with delicious potatoes, breads and pastas, and I ditched "the plan" a few weeks into it.
There is no reason to eschew (or worse, demonize) carbs. It's SO tiresome. My husband has a friend who hops on the zero-carb-bandwagon whenever he wants to drop weight for an event. Then he goes right back to eating the bun with his burger, and back to his former weight, and the cycle goes on into infinity.
The one star reviews for the book mentioned above pretty much confirm what I suspected about it.
I have not read Dr. Ken Berries book, but I do happen to know that he was pre-diabetic. Taking that into account one starts to understand why he is so strongly for an extremely low-carb approach to eating. It is a proven way to rectify pre-diabetes and put type 2 diabetes into remission. Not having read the book, I don't know if he claims this is the only way to eat or not. I find at times the people who read certain books are more vociferous in their advocacy of the diet that the book may put forward for specific reasons. As I said, I have not read the book. I have watched some of his videos on Youtube, and there have been helpful elements. I can't say I have watched enough to say more than I say with every person who suggests a specific way to eat, take the good and helpful. Forget the not so helpful and outright wrong.
I don't think anyone is disputing that diabetics need to manage their intake of carbs.
That isnt new or radical information and we don't need a book with a melodramatic title to tell us that.
OP wasn't just saying reduce carbs though but quit eating the carbs!! In capital letters.
And that changed everything - even more mental clarity!!
Anything possibly good and helpful gets lost when one makes exaggerated hyperbolic claims.
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TO also has not come back here.1
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rileysowner wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »No offense to the OP (who hasn't bothered showing up again for any discussion) but I find it mind-boggling that so-called authors can continue to trot out the same old diet ideas, package them in a book blaring with hyperbolic quotes all over it about being "ground breaking" and people will continue to shell out money for it.
No to the thousandth power to giving up carbs, as a means of weight loss or EVER. (Ahem, for me. Not telling anyone else what to do.)
I quit carbs eons ago, and I was pretty into it: made up recipes with all the usual suspects (cauliflower pizza crust, anyone?) and told any & everyone about this rad new eating plan that was going to make weight fall right off of me. I don't even know if it did because I couldn't stand not living with delicious potatoes, breads and pastas, and I ditched "the plan" a few weeks into it.
There is no reason to eschew (or worse, demonize) carbs. It's SO tiresome. My husband has a friend who hops on the zero-carb-bandwagon whenever he wants to drop weight for an event. Then he goes right back to eating the bun with his burger, and back to his former weight, and the cycle goes on into infinity.
The one star reviews for the book mentioned above pretty much confirm what I suspected about it.
I have not read Dr. Ken Berries book, but I do happen to know that he was pre-diabetic. Taking that into account one starts to understand why he is so strongly for an extremely low-carb approach to eating. It is a proven way to rectify pre-diabetes and put type 2 diabetes into remission. Not having read the book, I don't know if he claims this is the only way to eat or not. I find at times the people who read certain books are more vociferous in their advocacy of the diet that the book may put forward for specific reasons. As I said, I have not read the book. I have watched some of his videos on Youtube, and there have been helpful elements. I can't say I have watched enough to say more than I say with every person who suggests a specific way to eat, take the good and helpful. Forget the not so helpful and outright wrong.
I haven't read the book either, but I do a lot of research in the low carb field and it's the doctors I generally follow as well as the scientific literature. I'm petty familiar with his advocacy regarding obesity and diabetes. His clinic is in rural Benton county Tennessee where he was born and raised, went to medical school in Tennessee and then opened up his practice about 10 years ago. He was obese and pre diabetic and adapted a ketogenic diet and this was basically the conduit for his rational to start is clinic. He's helped thousands of patients in this time with diabetes and obesity with very good results and apparently Benton county has seen a 10% drop in obesity and diabetes when compared with the rest of Tennessee, which has spiked from 2012 by 20% which I haven't bothered to confirm.
I did have a hard time watching his video on the "Proper Human Diet" while I agreed with much of what he said regarding some of the science he tended to get preachy and formulate dialog I found to be very biased and misleading, but this I find quite a common occurrence with the vast majority of people that are proponents of a particular way of eating. imo. cheers
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If carbs are so bad then as a staple for Asians (not including Asian Americans) rice should killing off the Asian population in droves because it's included in just about every meal they eat. Asians live longer, look like they age slower and don't have the weight issues of many industrialized countries.
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Speaking of portion sizes, last night my partner and I split a stuffed shells and meatballs entrée. It was more than enough for the two of us, and he's a big guy.1
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If carbs are so bad then as a staple for Asians (not including Asian Americans) rice should killing off the Asian population in droves because it's included in just about every meal they eat. Asians live longer, look like they age slower and don't have the weight issues of many industrialized countries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Obesity is not about a single nutrient regardless of the Country. The changing food environment, in which nutrient poor and energy dense processed foods are aggressively marketed, readily available and often cheaper than healthier alternatives are an emerging problem around the world, even in Asia and it appears rapid urbanization is one of the leading factors, which makes sense. Is the obesity rate going up in Asia, yep, it sure is and "Asia" and the countries that make up Asia is huge and covers a lot of Counties including the Islands in the Pacific where obesity is ridiculously high like the Cook Islands and Nauru and the middle east, countries like Kuwait and Jordon which have a high incident of obesity. Cheers.
https://bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55428530
Over half of Chinese adults overweight, study finds
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Although there is APAC, I don't think you can correlate that they are as close to being oriental than to being "islanders" and not carrying as many traits. The majority of Asians are small in stature compared to someone like a Samoan who is usually 6 foot or taller and easily weighing in at 200lbs.neanderthin wrote: »If carbs are so bad then as a staple for Asians (not including Asian Americans) rice should killing off the Asian population in droves because it's included in just about every meal they eat. Asians live longer, look like they age slower and don't have the weight issues of many industrialized countries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Obesity is not about a single nutrient regardless of the Country. The changing food environment, in which nutrient poor and energy dense processed foods are aggressively marketed, readily available and often cheaper than healthier alternatives are an emerging problem around the world, even in Asia and it appears rapid urbanization is one of the leading factors, which makes sense. Is the obesity rate going up in Asia, yep, it sure is and "Asia" and the countries that make up Asia is huge and covers a lot of Counties including the Islands in the Pacific where obesity is ridiculously high like the Cook Islands and Nauru and the middle east, countries like Kuwait and Jordon which have a high incident of obesity. Cheers.
https://bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55428530
Over half of Chinese adults overweight, study finds
That's not to say that the westernizing of Asian isn't happening and YES, the weight is going up for many of them. Yet even compared to many industrialized countries, with all the packaged foods available, countries, like Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Singapore, etc. don't have the high incidences of overweight people due to mostly eating less.
I'm just referring to the OP's "not to eat carbs" lead in. Most of us know that it's a bunch of BS.
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Although there is APAC, I don't think you can correlate that they are as close to being oriental than to being "islanders" and not carrying as many traits. The majority of Asians are small in stature compared to someone like a Samoan who is usually 6 foot or taller and easily weighing in at 200lbs.neanderthin wrote: »If carbs are so bad then as a staple for Asians (not including Asian Americans) rice should killing off the Asian population in droves because it's included in just about every meal they eat. Asians live longer, look like they age slower and don't have the weight issues of many industrialized countries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Obesity is not about a single nutrient regardless of the Country. The changing food environment, in which nutrient poor and energy dense processed foods are aggressively marketed, readily available and often cheaper than healthier alternatives are an emerging problem around the world, even in Asia and it appears rapid urbanization is one of the leading factors, which makes sense. Is the obesity rate going up in Asia, yep, it sure is and "Asia" and the countries that make up Asia is huge and covers a lot of Counties including the Islands in the Pacific where obesity is ridiculously high like the Cook Islands and Nauru and the middle east, countries like Kuwait and Jordon which have a high incident of obesity. Cheers.
https://bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55428530
Over half of Chinese adults overweight, study finds
That's not to say that the westernizing of Asian isn't happening and YES, the weight is going up for many of them. Yet even compared to many industrialized countries, with all the packaged foods available, countries, like Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Singapore, etc. don't have the high incidences of overweight people due to mostly eating less.
I'm just referring to the OP's "not to eat carbs" lead in. Most of us know that it's a bunch of BS.
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I get what your saying and in some of these Countries obesity is much lower, but for most of these Countries, being overweight is increasing and like Korea for example, it's about 40% of the population that's overweight but obesity is still around 12% but that's a big increase over the years and childhood obesity is where the most prevalent increases are happening, which isn't what you want to see. Singapore is about the same, they're all moving in the wrong direction. It's going to depend how these Countries understand the underlying issue of processed foods and how they tackle these problems going forward. But if the rest of the world is any indication, they're going to end up in similar situations, probably because these foods are yummy and cheap and there's always tomorrow.
As far as carbs are concerned, yeah they're not the singular problem and like I mentioned it's the prevalence of the more available processed foods where people single out carbs when in fact it's more about the combination of nutrients where carbs are in the drivers seat delivering most of these ultra processed foods, so carbs do get confusing especially for people trying to lose weight and the food companies and media that popularizes these narratives. Emerging and expanding markets are where smart companies make a lot of money from things like gluten free, low fat, low cholesterol, 0 fat yogurt, keto cookies, immune boosters, made with real fruit, multigrain, omega 3's added, zero trans fat, light, no added sugar, sugar free....hey I'm on a roll here....natural and organic, all natural, free range. Kind of makes a person feel sorry for that naked broccoli that doesn't have much to say and nobody praising it's existance, lol. Cheers.
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Well, the naked broccoli can be frozen, shredded, stick sized, riced, and, of course, have perfect, imperfect, organic, regular scary, or super scary varieties and I'm sure I'm missing some.
"Traditional" Asia may not have been overweight or obese. North Korea isn't. South... not so sure. Indian countryside wasn't... now? Not so sure.
It is still a COMBINATION of lots of yummy food that takes very little time to prepare at a NOT prohibitive price for the vast majority of people as compared to, for example, spending all day running around trying to collect enough calories and water to survive.1 -
Just reading along, and I have a question. I’ve noticed in general people talk about quitting carbs or going low carb or very low carb, but some seem to eat a lot of vegetables. I’ve also seen advice for low carbers to, say, try cauliflower crust pizza or other substitutions that seem to be, well, carbs.
Is “low carb” or “quitting carbs” shorthand for reducing/avoiding simple carbs only? I figured quitting carbs was basically a full carnivore (and eggs) diet.
Personally, I eat almost all carbs and should probably improve that, but it’s veggies, beans, and rice. I have found it extremely helpful to stop eating sweets, as my blood sugar spikes and drops caused me to eat extra calories to stop feeling woozy. I know many people aren’t as sensitive to that as I am, but having been diagnosed prediabetic as a child (have avoided full blown diabetes) I just feel like this was a critical component of my own weight loss. I am not willing to risk passing out to cut calories, but cutting sugar means that it’s no longer a factor for me.1 -
People have this fixation on carbs and think carbs are cookies, chips, pie, etc and not realizing carbs are veggies and fruit also. There are carbs and ultra processed carbs so know the difference, peeps.herringboxes wrote: »Just reading along, and I have a question. I’ve noticed in general people talk about quitting carbs or going low carb or very low carb, but some seem to eat a lot of vegetables. I’ve also seen advice for low carbers to, say, try cauliflower crust pizza or other substitutions that seem to be, well, carbs.
Is “low carb” or “quitting carbs” shorthand for reducing/avoiding simple carbs only? I figured quitting carbs was basically a full carnivore (and eggs) diet.
Personally, I eat almost all carbs and should probably improve that, but it’s veggies, beans, and rice. I have found it extremely helpful to stop eating sweets, as my blood sugar spikes and drops caused me to eat extra calories to stop feeling woozy. I know many people aren’t as sensitive to that as I am, but having been diagnosed prediabetic as a child (have avoided full blown diabetes) I just feel like this was a critical component of my own weight loss. I am not willing to risk passing out to cut calories, but cutting sugar means that it’s no longer a factor for me.
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herringboxes wrote: »Just reading along, and I have a question. I’ve noticed in general people talk about quitting carbs or going low carb or very low carb, but some seem to eat a lot of vegetables. I’ve also seen advice for low carbers to, say, try cauliflower crust pizza or other substitutions that seem to be, well, carbs.
Is “low carb” or “quitting carbs” shorthand for reducing/avoiding simple carbs only? I figured quitting carbs was basically a full carnivore (and eggs) diet.
Personally, I eat almost all carbs and should probably improve that, but it’s veggies, beans, and rice. I have found it extremely helpful to stop eating sweets, as my blood sugar spikes and drops caused me to eat extra calories to stop feeling woozy. I know many people aren’t as sensitive to that as I am, but having been diagnosed prediabetic as a child (have avoided full blown diabetes) I just feel like this was a critical component of my own weight loss. I am not willing to risk passing out to cut calories, but cutting sugar means that it’s no longer a factor for me.
I don't think there's one answer.
Some people are eating low carb, and understand it to be about all kinds of carbs, even those sourced from foods many would consider healthy and nutrient-dense. Quite a number of veggies - loosely, the non-starchy ones - are reasonably low in carbs, and by being selective, some low carb eaters can get a fair amount of veggies . . . maybe more than the average American omnivore gets. In this camp, some count "net carbs" which are the carbs that aren't fiber (fiber is technically a carbohydrate, but not absorbed in the body like other carbs). Quite a few nice veggies, and a few fruits, are reasonably low in net carbs.
Other people are eating low carb, and not getting enough veggies: Some of those jump on the low carb wagon because of not liking veggies in the first place, as I read some posts here. Some deliberately choose a veggie-sparse approach (such as carnivore), believing that veggies are unnecessary with the right kind of diet.
And yes, some few people believe shockingly incorrect things, that candy and baked goods are carbs (vs. containing some carbs, and often getting more of their calories from fats than carbs), that pizza is a carb, etc.
Personally, I don't think there is "too many carbs" in context of a calorie-appropriate, overall nutritious way of eating that also has adequate protein and fats (especially the so-called "healthy fats" that are underconsumed by seemingly many people who get enough (or even too much) total fat.
I eat a lot of carbs myself, around 50% of calories, have done similarly all through loss and maintenance. Most of them are veggies and fruits - lots of veggies and fruits - or from no-sugar-added dairy foods, some of which also contain meaningful amounts of carbs. And some of my carbs are from bread (lately some white bread soft pretzels from a local baker, yum), or ice cream, or chocolates.
Different people have different ways of eating, of course . . . and even people eating in similar ways often have varied understandings or rationales for their eating style.
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Great answer, Ann, thanks.1
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It's not really carbs, but the quality of the carbs. Consider a slice of apple pie as opposed to a raw apple. The apple has carbs but not even close to those in the pie and in it's whole state provides fiber and other good things. If you cut wayyyy back on sugary and heavily processed foods and stick with whole grains and other whole foods, you will definitely feel and be healthier. So, eat carbs, but manage them well. Cutting out entire categories of foods is pretty much not a sustainable diet.0
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It's not really carbs, but the quality of the carbs. Consider a slice of apple pie as opposed to a raw apple. The apple has carbs but not even close to those in the pie and in it's whole state provides fiber and other good things. If you cut wayyyy back on sugary and heavily processed foods and stick with whole grains and other whole foods, you will definitely feel and be healthier. So, eat carbs, but manage them well. Cutting out entire categories of foods is pretty much not a sustainable diet.
low carb doesn't mean no carbs and many do eat some grain, bread or pasta in their diet as well as a lot of veg and some berries, which are also carbs. Speaking from personal experience.1 -
It's not really carbs, but the quality of the carbs. Consider a slice of apple pie as opposed to a raw apple. The apple has carbs but not even close to those in the pie and in it's whole state provides fiber and other good things. If you cut wayyyy back on sugary and heavily processed foods and stick with whole grains and other whole foods, you will definitely feel and be healthier. So, eat carbs, but manage them well. Cutting out entire categories of foods is pretty much not a sustainable diet.
This also goes back to something mentioned earlier...people think of a slice of apple pie as "carbs"...and yes, it contains more sugar and thus carbs than an apple...but a slice of apple pie is also comprised of a substantial amount of dietary fat where in many cases there are just as many, if nor more calories from fat for that slice. This is often the case with things like baked goods, pizza, etc...things people associate with "carbs" very often consist of a substantial amount of both carbs and dietary fat. It's one of the reasons I have a bit of a side eye when it comes to "carb addiction"...in most cases people are talking about things like this and completely ignoring the high fat content and the fact that both in combination are highly palatable.5 -
Carbs should be classed and defined in 2 different ways to avoid confusion. Non processed and processed. Too many people only consider processed carbs as carbs. You could even go with ultra processed in some cases.0
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The hubris of this thread title makes me wonder if OP coined it, or lifted it directly from the book. Not that it matters, but sheesh...2
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This idea that there are "types of carbs" is a non-starter, usually fuzzy thinking, unless by "types of carbs" we're referring to actual subclasses of the macronutrient, like fiber, sugars, starches, or more detailed subtypes.
There are types of foods: Unprocessed, more processed, nutrient-dense, etc., would be attributes one could sensibly apply to foods. Nutrient composition is an attribute of food, analogous to its color or other attributes - sub-classifications of foods. Even "high carb" can be an attribute of a food, just like "blue" or "grainy". But foods are not carbs, strictly speaking. Foods have carbs (or don't) as one of their subcomponents or attributes.
When someone says "apples are a good carb" or "processed carbs", they're using a figure of speech, probably a synecdoche or metonymy depending on the details. In a practical applied sense, it obscures rather than enlightening.
In a lot of other contexts, when people use these figures of speech, they don't confuse the details. (Example: If I said "paved miles are easier to bike than gravel miles", you'd implicitly understand I was talking about roads/trails. You'd know that miles themselves don't have a paved or unpaved surface - that's nonsensical. For some reason, some people don't seem to have that understanding when it's "types of carbs", and it leads to confused conclusions in some cases.)
Yes, I'm being pedantic.6
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