Fasting
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andysport1
Posts: 592 Member
Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
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Replies
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Since you are not a newcomer to IF or Keto, I guess I'd ask what you think? What's different this time?1
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Blood sugar normally goes up after exercise (adrenaline stimulates the liver to release glucose) and blood sugar will fluctuate throughout the day anyway. Carbs need to be really really low, generally below 30g's for 3 or 4 days, but then it depends, some people will take longer and if your checking ketones right after a high protein meal, that might influence it. Regardless micromanaging the ups and downs of your metabolism really isn't useful.
If you want to be in ketosis for whatever reason, then just commit to the diet and it will happen. Why you want to do it is probably a better question and how sustainable it is, is also a vital question to ask, and most people fail simply because it's a very restrictive intervention that at the end of the day isn't going to make much difference on actually weight loss compared to other strategies.
The people that truly find that diet helpful are people that have struggled with inflammatory issues like heart disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, cognition problems, arthritis and obesity that eventually stumble onto it from doing their own research from not finding much luck anywhere else and the compliance issue is more of a back burner issue. Cheers
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andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
What does 'minimal' carbs mean in terms of grams consumed?0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Blood sugar normally goes up after exercise (adrenaline stimulates the liver to release glucose) and blood sugar will fluctuate throughout the day anyway. Carbs need to be really really low, generally below 30g's for 3 or 4 days, but then it depends, some people will take longer and if your checking ketones right after a high protein meal, that might influence it. Regardless micromanaging the ups and downs of your metabolism really isn't useful.
If you want to be in ketosis for whatever reason, then just commit to the diet and it will happen. Why you want to do it is probably a better question and how sustainable it is, is also a vital question to ask, and most people fail simply because it's a very restrictive intervention that at the end of the day isn't going to make much difference on actually weight loss compared to other strategies.
The people that truly find that diet helpful are people that have struggled with inflammatory issues like heart disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, cognition problems, arthritis and obesity that eventually stumble onto it from doing their own research from not finding much luck anywhere else and the compliance issue is more of a back burner issue. Cheers
Neanderthin has pretty much covered it. Just commit to a keto diet and ketosis will happen. It takes several day to use up your glycogen stores before you will start going into ketosis. I agree it is restrictive, however, with various health issues I have developed from less than ideal eating pattern which I didn't want to get worse, I went to a keto diet. Happily, it works for me overall so compliance has not been a huge issue. If you have one of the issues mentioned by Neanderthin, you may find keto helps a lot with them. As for Dr. Fung, while I appreciate much of what he says, I find he often seems to absolutize things in a way that is less than helpful if one is only looking to lose weight. I found his stuff really helpful in dealing with the medical issues that I recently started to deal with, but for just weight loss, not so much.4 -
neanderthin wrote: »Blood sugar normally goes up after exercise (adrenaline stimulates the liver to release glucose) and blood sugar will fluctuate throughout the day anyway. Carbs need to be really really low, generally below 30g's for 3 or 4 days, but then it depends, some people will take longer and if your checking ketones right after a high protein meal, that might influence it. Regardless micromanaging the ups and downs of your metabolism really isn't useful.
If you want to be in ketosis for whatever reason, then just commit to the diet and it will happen. Why you want to do it is probably a better question and how sustainable it is, is also a vital question to ask, and most people fail simply because it's a very restrictive intervention that at the end of the day isn't going to make much difference on actually weight loss compared to other strategies.
The people that truly find that diet helpful are people that have struggled with inflammatory issues like heart disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, cognition problems, arthritis and obesity that eventually stumble onto it from doing their own research from not finding much luck anywhere else and the compliance issue is more of a back burner issue. Cheers
Didn't know blood sugar went up after exercise, I normally only test once or twice a week, I'm a vegetarian so the keto diet doesn't really work for me, however I exercise a lot so, at the moment I'm trying to reintroduce fasted bike rides, normally I can watch my carbs, 12 hour fast for two days and I'm in ketosis (I try and stay in for a few days by staying low carb) this time round it's frustrating, as nothing is happening and I actually felt naff this morning, one hour into the bike I bought biscuits and a coke0 -
andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
What does 'minimal' carbs mean in terms of grams consumed?
Less than 50g
However, I exercise far more than most people, at 50g I can usually stay in ketosis for 2 or 3 days, I'm vegetarian so keto really doesn't work for me, far too restrictive0 -
andysport1 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
What does 'minimal' carbs mean in terms of grams consumed?
Less than 50g
However, I exercise far more than most people, at 50g I can usually stay in ketosis for 2 or 3 days, I'm vegetarian so keto really doesn't work for me, far too restrictive
If keto doesn't work for you, then why are you looking to be in ketosis, especially being a vegetarian, curious.4 -
neanderthin wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
What does 'minimal' carbs mean in terms of grams consumed?
Less than 50g
However, I exercise far more than most people, at 50g I can usually stay in ketosis for 2 or 3 days, I'm vegetarian so keto really doesn't work for me, far too restrictive
If keto doesn't work for you, then why are you looking to be in ketosis, especially being a vegetarian, curious.
I think he's working off of the idea that fasting will put you into ketosis.0 -
Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying to micromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers2
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neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying to micromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers
Yup. Agreed.0 -
andysport1 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Blood sugar normally goes up after exercise (adrenaline stimulates the liver to release glucose) and blood sugar will fluctuate throughout the day anyway. Carbs need to be really really low, generally below 30g's for 3 or 4 days, but then it depends, some people will take longer and if your checking ketones right after a high protein meal, that might influence it. Regardless micromanaging the ups and downs of your metabolism really isn't useful.
If you want to be in ketosis for whatever reason, then just commit to the diet and it will happen. Why you want to do it is probably a better question and how sustainable it is, is also a vital question to ask, and most people fail simply because it's a very restrictive intervention that at the end of the day isn't going to make much difference on actually weight loss compared to other strategies.
The people that truly find that diet helpful are people that have struggled with inflammatory issues like heart disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, cognition problems, arthritis and obesity that eventually stumble onto it from doing their own research from not finding much luck anywhere else and the compliance issue is more of a back burner issue. Cheers
Didn't know blood sugar went up after exercise, I normally only test once or twice a week, I'm a vegetarian so the keto diet doesn't really work for me, however I exercise a lot so, at the moment I'm trying to reintroduce fasted bike rides, normally I can watch my carbs, 12 hour fast for two days and I'm in ketosis (I try and stay in for a few days by staying low carb) this time round it's frustrating, as nothing is happening and I actually felt naff this morning, one hour into the bike I bought biscuits and a coke
If you bought a coke and cookies an hour into the bike ride, why in the world are you surprised your sugar went up? Am I missing something?
If you were feeling “naff” (love how spellcheck wants that to be “nag”, it clearly knows me!) it was probably wise of you to pay attention and quench that need.0 -
andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
Curious what you're trying to achieve via this route? (Tastes are individual, but that routine would make me utterly miserable.) I admit, I'm a Fung skeptic.
I'm also vegetarian, and fasted workouts (for me) are miserable - two facts, not necessarily related to each other. I understand not wanting to eat keto as a vegetarian, 100%. But that brings me back to . . . what leads you to take this approach, or to pursue ketosis at all?
I admit, my sport is short endurance, not long endurance, but if there's a sports endurance goal (trying to develop more ability to fuel from fat?) , personally I'd be more inclined to go the traditional time-tested route of training endurance, managing pace/intensity during long training sessions or events, and having a rational fueling plan for long events/workouts. But that's just me.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »Doctor Fung fasting
I lowered my carbs and sugars for two weeks, removed all alcohol, Day 1 minimal carbs followed by 15 hour fast, next day, worked in the garden, below 1000 calories, only 2 black coffees and minimal carbs followed by 17 hour fast, during this fast I did a 2:30 bike ride and the keto sticks say nothing, not a glimmer of colour change and my blood sugar is 96 before the bike ride and 106 after
What's going on
What does 'minimal' carbs mean in terms of grams consumed?
Less than 50g
However, I exercise far more than most people, at 50g I can usually stay in ketosis for 2 or 3 days, I'm vegetarian so keto really doesn't work for me, far too restrictive
If keto doesn't work for you, then why are you looking to be in ketosis, especially being a vegetarian, curious.
The keto diet doesn't work for me
I am regularly in ketosis, if I fast for 14 hours then cycle when I return I'm usually in ketosis, I try to hold ketosis for two or three days so I plan this for once every few weeks, for me it's simply having reduced carbs for those few days and exercising after every meal.
But to follow a keto diet as a vegetarian is not so healthy, I'd need to take lots of supplements and the diet is restrictive and boring in my opinion0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying tomicromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers
I was at a loss, no energy, in the middle of a bike ride, didn't know what else to do, never drink coke normally, don't normally have any issues but this week something isn't right, I've felt lethargic for 2 days now, couldn't sleep last night as I felt soooo hungry even though I ate at 8pm
I simply don't know what's going on0 -
andysport1 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying tomicromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers
I was at a loss, no energy, in the middle of a bike ride, didn't know what else to do, never drink coke normally, don't normally have any issues but this week something isn't right, I've felt lethargic for 2 days now, couldn't sleep last night as I felt soooo hungry even though I ate at 8pm
I simply don't know what's going on
That's what happens when you're not eating enough. Rethink your program--it's not for you.3 -
snowflake954 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying tomicromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers
I was at a loss, no energy, in the middle of a bike ride, didn't know what else to do, never drink coke normally, don't normally have any issues but this week something isn't right, I've felt lethargic for 2 days now, couldn't sleep last night as I felt soooo hungry even though I ate at 8pm
I simply don't know what's going on
That's what happens when you're not eating enough. Rethink your program--it's not for you.
I'm sure you are correct, got to figure out what I can eat, how calories are in what foods and what carbs
Once I've figured the food I'll restart the faster exercise1 -
andysport1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Yeah, I suspect that's why as well, but trying tomicromanage our metabolic machinery do a specific job at a specific time is a bit optimistic I would say. Possibly the thought is that when in ketosis, that the body burns fat for fuel, who knows, especially when he said he bought biscuits and a coke, giving up on that idea and fueling with carbs instead. cheers
I was at a loss, no energy, in the middle of a bike ride, didn't know what else to do, never drink coke normally, don't normally have any issues but this week something isn't right, I've felt lethargic for 2 days now, couldn't sleep last night as I felt soooo hungry even though I ate at 8pm
I simply don't know what's going on
That's what happens when you're not eating enough. Rethink your program--it's not for you.
I'm sure you are correct, got to figure out what I can eat, how calories are in what foods and what carbs
Once I've figured the food I'll restart the faster exercise
Great decision. Fasting and exercise performance are not natural partners, and the impact can be punitive, as you're finding.
Maybe go read some critical reviews of Fung's thinking. It might make you feel better. It won't be hard to find critiques from well-credentialed sources.2 -
This might be a silly question but I’m confused. Firstly, are you trying to lose weight? If so, why are you trying to be in ketosis if you don’t need to be to lose weight? I’ve never heard of a vegetarian forcing ketosis while intermittent fasting before. My body would be incredibly compromised if I did this. Especially with so much exercise.
Am I missing some magic behind ketosis that I should be aware of?0 -
Fasting isn't a magic method to getting fitter or losing weight. How many calories are you taking in a day?
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