Where does “slow down as you approach your target weight” come from?
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Retroguy2000 wrote: »Those last two posts seem... aggressive? OP was clearly asking if there was data behind the "slow down at 10 pounds" advice, which I took to mean is it actually 10 pounds, or 9, or 11, does it vary based on the individual and the weight, etc. He already explicitly said he wasn't arguing for the opposite position:
"I am not arguing with the logic. Nor am I proposing rapid loss near goal or any other alternative approach. I am merely asking about the origin of this advice."
I suppose. Web is always open to interpretation as to tone. In spite of the disclaimer, my own interpretation remains that the poster IS in effect promoting a faster loss viewpoint. Whether intentionally or not.
As to aggression I do consider the examples of conjecture presented by the OP (and implied equation of such conjecture to everyone else's posts) as not particularly less aggressive than my own tone
But that's me at this point of time! For all I know I could have just been hangry as I'm now way more mellow after eating 79g of pitted dates and an hour of MFPeeing!
PS: In case it was not crystal clear: "putting a hole in your skull" as mentioned in my previous post is a reference to the mention of trepanation by the OP in his "conjecture" post, not an actual act of aggression contemplated against the OP!3 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »Those last two posts seem... aggressive? OP was clearly asking if there was data behind the "slow down at 10 pounds" advice, which I took to mean is it actually 10 pounds, or 9, or 11, does it vary based on the individual and the weight, etc. He already explicitly said he wasn't arguing for the opposite position:
"I am not arguing with the logic. Nor am I proposing rapid loss near goal or any other alternative approach. I am merely asking about the origin of this advice."
Thank you, @Retroguy2000. Those are precisely the questions I am asking.
Here is some background.
I was looking at another discussion in the MFP Community section in which a newcomer who was having difficulty getting started asked for some guidance.
In response, a person who was more of a veteran told him something to the effect of: Set a goal weight, input your stats into MFP to determine your caloric requirements for a safe deficit and be serious about logging. So far, so good.
Then the person providing advice told the newcomer that they should reduce their caloric deficit by half when they get within 10 pounds of their goal weight (apparently, no matter their goal weight ends up being).
I remember seeing this advice in other discussions in the MFP community section, and I wondered where it and its values came from.
Like everyone here, I follow a routine to improve and maintain fitness. Like everyone here, I am constantly running across new information that I evaluate, and then either incorporate into my routine or ignore. Since I had seen this 10-pound/cut-by-half advice more than once on MFP, I started wondering where it came from so I could decide whether to adopt it or ignore it.
As of this time, no one has found any study or data that validates the 10-pound/cut-by-half advice or its values. This, of course, does not mean the advice is wrong and it does not mean that something to support the advice will not be discovered in the future. However, it does indicate that the 10-pound/cut-by-half advice is conjecture at this point.
Once again, I emphasize that I am not promoting rapid weight loss or anything else, for that matter. It is hard to understand why some of the contributors here want to go off on tangents and argue against positions I have never taken and do not hold.
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Does it really matter what anyone else thinks? You've come to your own conclusion, which is fine. I think people got riled up at the way you communicated the conclusion you've come to. Of course you can lose weight as fast as your body will do it. Does that mean it's a good idea? Not really. The people who give that advice have a lot of experience with weight loss in a variety of ways. And their overarching message is "hey, going too fast, especially when trying to lose the last few pounds, probably isn't a great idea." You personally can choose to try and lose weight as fast or slow as you are able.2 -
Hah. I asked a similar question before and gave up with my eyes rolling in the back of my head. The answer is that it's made up. There isn't anything but anecdata and a load of people on here repeating it so often it becomes "true" to back it up.1
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scarlett_k wrote: »Hah. I asked a similar question before and gave up with my eyes rolling in the back of my head. The answer is that it's made up. There isn't anything but anecdata and a load of people on here repeating it so often it becomes "true" to back it up.
Basically everything concerning weight loss is made up to some extent. There are good ideas and bad ideas, but bodies are adaptable.1 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »
Does it really matter what anyone else thinks? You've come to your own conclusion, which is fine. I think people got riled up at the way you communicated the conclusion you've come to. Of course you can lose weight as fast as your body will do it. Does that mean it's a good idea? Not really. The people who give that advice have a lot of experience with weight loss in a variety of ways. And their overarching message is "hey, going too fast, especially when trying to lose the last few pounds, probably isn't a great idea." You personally can choose to try and lose weight as fast or slow as you are able.
No, it does not really matter to me what anyone else thinks. Apparently, however, what I think mattered enough to you to let me know your thoughts on the subject.
Once again… I do not practice nor do I advocate for high-speed weight loss. I merely asked a question about the origins of a specific piece of advice being put forth here. I have come to no conclusion about whether the advice is right or wrong.0 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »
Does it really matter what anyone else thinks? You've come to your own conclusion, which is fine. I think people got riled up at the way you communicated the conclusion you've come to. Of course you can lose weight as fast as your body will do it. Does that mean it's a good idea? Not really. The people who give that advice have a lot of experience with weight loss in a variety of ways. And their overarching message is "hey, going too fast, especially when trying to lose the last few pounds, probably isn't a great idea." You personally can choose to try and lose weight as fast or slow as you are able.
No, it does not really matter to me what anyone else thinks. Apparently, however, what I think mattered enough to you to let me know your thoughts on the subject.
Once again… I do not practice nor do I advocate for high-speed weight loss. I merely asked a question about the origins of a specific piece of advice being put forth here. I have come to no conclusion about whether the advice is right or wrong.
I didn't actually tell you my thoughts. I was referring to your conclusion that there is no convincing evidence that you can't or shouldn't lose the last 10 pounds at the same rate as the rest of your weight. And my thoughts are you're right, but that it doesn't really matter either way.1 -
LOL.
@Edintokyo - are you new to internet forums? People will argue to the death over minutiae! It's what internet forums are!
Welcome to myfitnesspal Community, where you don't have to be right...unless you try posting in "Debate" with some contentious topic, then you better have lots o' links to valid research to back that up!3 -
Quite often here, posters advise others to halve their weekly weight loss target when they get within 10 pounds of their ultimate goal weight.
What is the source of this advice?
Does it have any scientific basis?
What happens if you don’t follow this advice?
I think we can say that the source of this advice is: good sense.
Not everything has had scientific papers written about it.
People don't have to follow this advice. They can find out themselves if it is really good sense or not.
I've been following this thread. It's been interesting because there is no scientific backing. It's just common sense. Remember that? People used to follow it.
A big thank you to the posters that took their time to explain why it's a good idea.3 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »Those last two posts seem... aggressive? OP was clearly asking if there was data behind the "slow down at 10 pounds" advice, which I took to mean is it actually 10 pounds, or 9, or 11, does it vary based on the individual and the weight, etc. He already explicitly said he wasn't arguing for the opposite position:
"I am not arguing with the logic. Nor am I proposing rapid loss near goal or any other alternative approach. I am merely asking about the origin of this advice."
Thank you, @Retroguy2000. Those are precisely the questions I am asking.
Here is some background.
I was looking at another discussion in the MFP Community section in which a newcomer who was having difficulty getting started asked for some guidance.
In response, a person who was more of a veteran told him something to the effect of: Set a goal weight, input your stats into MFP to determine your caloric requirements for a safe deficit and be serious about logging. So far, so good.
Then the person providing advice told the newcomer that they should reduce their caloric deficit by half when they get within 10 pounds of their goal weight (apparently, no matter their goal weight ends up being).
I remember seeing this advice in other discussions in the MFP community section, and I wondered where it and its values came from.
Like everyone here, I follow a routine to improve and maintain fitness. Like everyone here, I am constantly running across new information that I evaluate, and then either incorporate into my routine or ignore. Since I had seen this 10-pound/cut-by-half advice more than once on MFP, I started wondering where it came from so I could decide whether to adopt it or ignore it.
As of this time, no one has found any study or data that validates the 10-pound/cut-by-half advice or its values. This, of course, does not mean the advice is wrong and it does not mean that something to support the advice will not be discovered in the future. However, it does indicate that the 10-pound/cut-by-half advice is conjecture at this point.
Once again, I emphasize that I am not promoting rapid weight loss or anything else, for that matter. It is hard to understand why some of the contributors here want to go off on tangents and argue against positions I have never taken and do not hold.
That veteran was quite possibly me. I try to give people what I believe to be practical advice based on a combination of personal experience, anecdata from others posting here, and such research evidence as I can find with my amateur research powers.
In this case, it's mainstream medical advice that fast loss has health risks. How fast "fast loss" is - that's a more ill-defined concept.
In my reading, the paper I linked suggests that some health consequences vary with the rate of loss, and with size of available fat stores. The specific underlying data relates to extreme conditions, and extreme consequences. It seems reasonable to me, though not "scientifically proven", that other well-known risks of fast loss may also vary with size of available fat stores. (Yes, that's "conjecture".)
I admit to being somewhat conservative about health risk in the context of weight loss, for myself, and for others - especially when I have no knowledge of an OP's health history. So, the surmise in the paragraph just above includes some of that conservative tendency.
Upthread, I summarized some of my practical personal reasons for recommending slowed loss when down to very little left to lose, at the end of a substantial-length calorie restriction that's resulted in substantial weight loss.
I intend to keep giving the same advice mentioned here. It's exactly what I did myself. It worked well for me. In a practical daily context, I don't think it's reasonable to only give advice that's totally based in clear science. It would be nice if that were possible, but I think it isn't. (NB I do think it's generally bad practice to fly in the face of experts' consensus.)
I hope you, OP, will give new people advice based on your experience and research. Doubtless it will disagree with my advice sometimes, but I think that hearing a diversity of opinions (with rationale) is a helpful part of an internet forum.
Ultimately, it's their call what they decide to do.1 -
Iv'e seen that advice on here over the years. Just opinions of those who think that losing small amounts towards the end .. gently ..softly .. lands you into maitenance..
I say get there faster. why slow down? I get what you wonder about. I think that is just the advice of some on here and it comes off like it is expert medical advice and it isn't.1 -
scarlett_k wrote: »Hah. I asked a similar question before and gave up with my eyes rolling in the back of my head. The answer is that it's made up. There isn't anything but anecdata and a load of people on here repeating it so often it becomes "true" to back it up.
Thank you for the comment, Scarlett. Glad to know it was not just me!
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »
I didn't actually tell you my thoughts. I was referring to your conclusion that there is no convincing evidence that you can't or shouldn't lose the last 10 pounds at the same rate as the rest of your weight. And my thoughts are you're right, but that it doesn't really matter either way.
My apologies for being too curt in my previous reply.
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cmriverside wrote: »LOL.
@Edintokyo - are you new to internet forums? People will argue to the death over minutiae! It's what internet forums are!
Welcome to myfitnesspal Community, where you don't have to be right...unless you try posting in "Debate" with some contentious topic, then you better have lots o' links to valid research to back that up!
Hah… Duly noted!0 -
elisa123gal wrote: »Iv'e seen that advice on here over the years. Just opinions of those who think that losing small amounts towards the end .. gently ..softly .. lands you into maitenance..
I say get there faster. why slow down? I get what you wonder about. I think that is just the advice of some on here and it comes off like it is expert medical advice and it isn't.
Thank you for your comment, Elisa. It’s good to hear that I am not the only one who wondered about this issue.
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Where does your scientific support for large deficits all the way to goal come from?
He didnt say he had any scientific support for doing that or even that he intended to do that or supported that position.
OP I'm sure the 10 pounds is an estimation or approximation - but all guidelines have to have an approximate figure to be meaningful - so it is no good just saying "when you get closer to goal" without a guide of approximately how much closer we are talking.
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paperpudding wrote: »OP I'm sure the 10 pounds is an estimation or approximation - but all guidelines have to have an approximate figure to be meaningful - so it is no good just saying "when you get closer to goal" without a guide of approximately how much closer we are talking.
Yes. Maybe, “gradually reduce your deficit as you approach your goal weight”?
BTW, @paperpudding, your profile pic looks scrumptious!
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