How US labeling is decieving
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Please note that he said the "entire can" is 900 calories, not a single 5-second spray. So, work the math a bit more...
400 servings x 0.3 seconds per serving = 120 seconds of spray per can
900 calories per can / 120 seconds per can = 7.5 calories per second sprayed
So in your example, @neanderthin, of 3-4 seconds spray, you would have sprayed out roughly 30 calories. Your example perfectly illustrates how only a portion of your food comes into contact with the spray, therefore your actual consumption of spray-calories is quite low. But I just wanted to point out that @ninerbuff's and your posts were not in conflict.
Also, even where the food is in contact with the fat, when you're done cooking, there will still generally be a film of fat on the pan. So even where there is contact, the food is not picking up all the fat.
I'm no apologists for oil spray cans. To me, they seem harder to clean than if I oil the pan the old-fashioned way, and they seem more prone to leaving those brown stains on my pan. Plus they're much more expensive, and as far as I can tell, the containers can't be recycled yet.0 -
Don’t worry it’s not all oil in those sprays there is kerosene as well.2
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neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers2 -
middlehaitch wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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re the bolded, the food gives the calories, 170. That is what is needed for weight loss so it is not deceptive.
If someone is tracking macros for nutrition or medical reasons that is stated in grams for all to see. The maths, if needed, is not difficult.
Would you prefer it if they gave the ?grams or ?oz = ?cals and do a percentage breakdown on the label?
The only macro I’ve ever counted is protein, by the gram not calorie.
We generally advise people by the gram for macros, not how many calories per lbs of lean body weight.
I aim for 80-100g protein, not 320-400cals.
Sorry, I think I’m either missing your point, or over/under thinking it Niner,
Cheers, h.
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1 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
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1 -
Dellagirl5316 wrote: »Don’t worry it’s not all oil in those sprays there is kerosene as well.
Depends on the particular brand. There are several types on the market now that just use compressed air as the propellant.
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neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
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neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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1 -
https://www.nutritionix.com/food/90-percent-lean-ground-beef
so 1serving is 196 calories
10 grams of fat x 9 is 90 calories
Divided by 196 that's 45% fat calories out of that 196
Explain how it's 90% lean
To the average person if they were counting calories, they'd look at 196 calories in a serving an believe based on labeling that there's only 19 calories of fat in that serving because it's "90%" lean right?
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1 -
This example is talking about fat by weight and not percentage which there are no products that list fat or any macro by percentage anyway, and only g's. Basically 90% lean is saying that the fat content is 10% by weight and that portion is 85g/10% they rounded it up to 10. Again a consumer will look at the total fat content which clearly shows 10g's could someone somehow believe that portion was 19 calories, I guess it's possible, anything is possible. I would think if they knew that there's 9 calories in a gram of fat and was someone that was actually counting calories and they clearly saw 10 grams, then totally disregarded that and then assumed it was 19 calories, that is a bit of a stretch imo
In Canada we use a different metric. We have extra lean which is 10% maximum fat by weight, lean which is 17%, medium which is 23 and regular which is 30% by weight. The total fat is what shows on the nutritional label.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »This example is talking about fat by weight and not percentage which there are no products that list fat or any macro by percentage anyway, and only g's. Basically 90% lean is saying that the fat content is 10% by weight and that portion is 85g/10% they rounded it up to 10. Again a consumer will look at the total fat content which clearly shows 10g's could someone somehow believe that portion was 19.6 calories, I guess it possible, anything is possible.
In Canada we use a different metric. We have extra lean which is 10% maximum fat by weight, lean which is 17%, medium which is 23 and regular which is 30% by weight. The total fat is what shows on the nutritional label.
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Look at how this is misleading:
https://www.heb.com/product-detail/h-e-b-ground-beef-93-lean-1-lb/1265400
It's a 1lb package. Serving size listed as 4oz. Macros are listed as 8g fat, 23g protein, etc.
Oh wait, let me get my calculator out, because they've deliberately mismatched imperial and metric to obfuscate it.
The calculator tells me 4oz is 113.4g, so that 8g fat is indeed 7% of weight as fat, and 42% of calories. They shouldn't mismatch imperial and metric like that.
Same goes for their milk. It's listed as gallons, with serving size in cups, and macros per serving in grams. I never thought 1% milk meant 1% of calories were fat, I hadn't given much thought to it tbh, I just know it's lower fat than 2%, but I also never thought it was as high as 22.5% calories from fat.2 -
Queston: If it's 42% fat, should it be called lean
You didn't answer my question which was; do you think 8g's of fat is high for a portion of protein?
Niner I've never taken any descriptive of a food product seriously and only look at the nutritional labeling, otherwise I would be lead to believe quite a bit of nonsense that is prevalent in the food industry, especially the healthy labels, funny stuff really.1 -
https://www.nutritionix.com/food/90-percent-lean-ground-beef
so 1serving is 196 calories
10 grams of fat x 9 is 90 calories
Divided by 196 that's 45% fat calories out of that 196
Explain how it's 90% lean
To the average person if they were counting calories, they'd look at 196 calories in a serving an believe based on labeling that there's only 19 calories of fat in that serving because it's "90%" lean right?
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It's 90% lean by weight. I don't understand this hypothetical person looking at a label that lists the grams of fat and, instead of reading the information staring them in the face, opting to look at the calories and do math based on a claim of X% lean.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutritionIf it's 42% fat, should it be called lean?
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Niner I've never taken any descriptive of a food product seriously and only look at the nutritional labeling, otherwise I would be lead to believe quite a bit of nonsense that is prevalent in the food industry, especially the healthy labels, funny stuff really.
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0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »https://www.nutritionix.com/food/90-percent-lean-ground-beef
so 1serving is 196 calories
10 grams of fat x 9 is 90 calories
Divided by 196 that's 45% fat calories out of that 196
Explain how it's 90% lean
To the average person if they were counting calories, they'd look at 196 calories in a serving an believe based on labeling that there's only 19 calories of fat in that serving because it's "90%" lean right?
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It's 90% lean by weight. I don't understand this hypothetical person looking at a label that lists the grams of fat and, instead of reading the information staring them in the face, opting to look at the calories and do math based on a claim of X% lean.
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2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »It's 90% lean by weight. I don't understand this hypothetical person looking at a label that lists the grams of fat and, instead of reading the information staring them in the face, opting to look at the calories and do math based on a claim of X% lean.
45% fat by calories, which is ultimately what matters, and it's what people track (if they are tracking their diet), and it's also what's shown on labels as "% of a daily diet".
Wouldn't it make more sense therefore to package it as "55% lean"? But that probably wouldn't sell as well, would it?0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.
- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutritionIf it's 42% fat, should it be called lean?
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Niner I've never taken any descriptive of a food product seriously and only look at the nutritional labeling, otherwise I would be lead to believe quite a bit of nonsense that is prevalent in the food industry, especially the healthy labels, funny stuff really.
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Well, that leaves out eggs and unless it's fat free, no dairy as well, so that leaves vegan, with limitations. Are you vegan?1 -
Like others who've posted - if I'm reading between their lines accurately - I don't understand why you're as excited about this as you seem to be.
Lucky Charms aren't actually lucky. How would the average consumer know that? That's an exaggeration, but IMO you're getting close to that level of argument here.lynn_glenmont wrote: »https://www.nutritionix.com/food/90-percent-lean-ground-beef
so 1serving is 196 calories
10 grams of fat x 9 is 90 calories
Divided by 196 that's 45% fat calories out of that 196
Explain how it's 90% lean
To the average person if they were counting calories, they'd look at 196 calories in a serving an believe based on labeling that there's only 19 calories of fat in that serving because it's "90%" lean right?
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It's 90% lean by weight. I don't understand this hypothetical person looking at a label that lists the grams of fat and, instead of reading the information staring them in the face, opting to look at the calories and do math based on a claim of X% lean.
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I think the average consumer doesn't give a rat's patootie. People who are serious about weight management or nutrition tend to study those subjects, and can readily get the information they need from most labels.
Yes, sometimes it requires a little arithmetic . . . whoohoo. Yes, many people are bad at math, but that worries me more (at the population level) in other realms, like retirement savings, mortgage selection, etc.
In world where all kinds of blogosphere nonsense is telling the average consumer pure counterproductive mythology, I don't think the things you're saying about labels are the biggest practical barrier to weight management or nutrition improvement for anyone.
People who don't make a study of this stuff, but have common sense, know that marketers aren't to be trusted, and aren't consciously making decisions based on the "lean" in "lean ground turkey", any more than they believe the "lucky" in "Lucky Charms".neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »None of this logic makes sense and it's still 6g's of fat which is simply calculated as part of total fat consumed, easy peasy. Not sure where you got the idea that a portion of food has to have 20% or less of fat.- 1/2 Avocado 80% fat
- 1 oz Cheddar 70% fat
- 100 g's salmon 75% fat
- 1 oz Chocolate 55% fat
Look at Jennie O Lean ground Turkey for example.
1 serving is 170 calories
8 grams of fat per serving
So 42% of that serving is fat
Doesn't sound that lean to me.
Point being that labeling can confuse people. Luckily we do have an app here that does count our total fat and calories. Again, I'm not disparaging against fat, just about how labeling can be deceptive to those that DON'T understand why they aren't losing weight even though they are reading labels.
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Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you niner. When you say lean, are you saying too much fat in a particular food item is a bad thing in general? What about the avocado with 80%, that's got to freak you out, no? especially considering there's no label to tell people the fat content so do you think nature made a mistake there, or chocolate, chocolate has a lot of fat and a lot of saturated fat, so potentially causes atherosclerosis, do you think nature made a mistake there as well. I'm just not sure what your trying to say. The losing weight part is about total fat grams in a diet, not the percentage of fat in an item to be able to calculate weight loss. cheers
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Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutritionIf it's 42% fat, should it be called lean?
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Niner I've never taken any descriptive of a food product seriously and only look at the nutritional labeling, otherwise I would be lead to believe quite a bit of nonsense that is prevalent in the food industry, especially the healthy labels, funny stuff really.
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Why 20%? MFP's default fat goal is 30%.
(Note to those inclined to argue with that last statement: I'm just poking at the style of argumentation in this thread, basically joking.)
If you ask me, it's the overall nutrition of a total diet, averaged over a day or few, that counts. I admit I rough-evaluate new potential vegetarian protein source foods based on protein gram/calorie ratio as one factor. But as long as I get a reasonable fat minimum most of the time, I don't see why the fat to protein ratio of a single food matters. (Maybe that's because I don't eat meat?)4 -
Wrong target audience in this discussion, IMHO. People posting here in MFP are dedicated to improving their diet, whether to lose weight or to gain muscle. We are far more inclined to actually do the math, inspect the claims, see how a given food item correlates into our desired diet.
The average person is likely to be less informed, less curious, or less caring. They certainly won't be pulling out a calculator to determine the truth of an item's nutritional value. If they care at all, they will simply look at two packages of an item and be inclined to take the one which sounds like it promises to be "better." One package claims "90% lean" and the other says "55% calories protein". We've established above they are mathematically the same. But the average consumer is going to grab the first package.
And let's be honest, given the obesity pandemic at large, "average" consumers far outnumber people who take the time/effort to do the math people in this thread keep saying is "easy."4
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