Carrying On. Sorta?

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  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,971 Member
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    Oh, honey... (re your tummy donut) haven't you ever read the uterus thread??? Lots of pics and stories to help you relax...https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,971 Member
    edited July 2023
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    I'm going to state the obvious, but someone else reading may get an ah-ha moment...

    If you're hungry all the time, you're under-eating or over-exercising, you need more of some nutrient or fiber or less of something, like sweets or too many ultra processed carbs - or there's a medical problem. I know you intellectually know this.

    Lots of people on the forums lose a bunch of weight and then struggle, but in my opinion it's because they still aren't dialed in with the amount of food they need to (and can!!) eat. As you've read from me and AnnPT and others - I eat well above what MFP says, and welllllllllllll above the pretty low calories I had to eat in the first year post-weight loss. First year? 1600, not a cookie more. Now? 15 years in to my Maintenance? 300-500 calories more as base and then at least one day of 800-1500 calories above maintenance per week, so figure I'm eating 500-700 calories above MFP's guess every day. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2300 (Net, i.e. MFP's "Net" calories. I do add in and eat the Exercise calories.) per day - for years now - and I'm retired and live in a small condo so pretty low energy expenditure in my daily routine. The exercise I do is mostly walking and resistance bands and stretching. I'm 5'7"-5'8" and 140-145. Haven't gained...well, I gain 3-5 every winter, but I exercise less and usually indulge at the holidays, so there's that. That drops off in the Spring. Every year. Biology, yo.

    I won't ask, because hopefully you've already done a "eat above what I think my Maintenance calories are for a month or two."

    If not, then, um...


    Also, where's that hug emoticon? :flowerforyou:

  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 7,484 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    I'm going to state the obvious, but someone else reading may get an ah-ha moment...
    As you've read from me and AnnPT and others - I eat well above what MFP says, and welllllllllllll above the pretty low calories I had to eat in the first year post-weight loss. First year? 1600, not a cookie more. Now? 15 years in to my Maintenance? 300-500 calories more as base and then at least one day of 800-1500 calories above maintenance per week, so figure I'm eating 500-700 calories above MFP's guess every day. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2300 (Net, i.e. MFP's "Net" calories.

    That’s very interesting.

    Ann has often mentioned being a “good little old calorie burner”. I wonder if after you’ve been at this a while if it’s almost like your body rewards you and relaxes fat storage, or perhaps metabolism ramps up.

    Or maybe it’s also attributable to the so-much-better-now nutrition.

    I eat about 1/2 to 2/3 my exercise calories back, and I earn a lot of exercise calories.

    I’ve averaged 2600-3000 a week for months now. Most days are around 2300, and then I’ll have basically a binge for a night or two. A family sized chocolate bar, a package of pizelle cookies,…..or both. 😬

    Even when I do, and check the damage next morning, I’m still reliably in my average weekly range. It’s almost like my body says,”Ok. Mathematically, that’s enough now, honey.”

    Not dehydrated. I’m drinking insane amounts of ice water. As doofus as it sounds, I’m wondering if all the ice I’m noshing on is contributing by lowering my core temperature, and the effort to reheat it. Or by same token, hot classes have been excessively hot and humid lately (obviously), and have been much more difficult as a result.

    Maintenance is hard, harder than the actual weight loss, requiring much self control and daily diligence, but has also been very very good to me. Things continue to change- body, muscle distribution, endurance, strength (in little bitty increments 😂) And I shouldn’t be here bellyaching about being hungry with such generous calories. (Although I do earn them, lest anyone think I’m supernaturally blessed.)



  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,971 Member
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    So....cmr's Theater Of The Obvious says...eat all your danged exercise cals. ::shrug:: Or at least bump up your daily Goal to 2500, then still add in the 1/3-2/3 exercise cals, and still keep that once a week binge day.

    I mean...I do a lot less exercise than you and I'm the same weight and age and close to the same height and I eat more than you do...so...If you be hungry, there's a solution for that!

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,203 Member
    edited July 2023
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    springlering62 wrote: »
    (snip context)

    Ann has often mentioned being a “good little old calorie burner”. I wonder if after you’ve been at this a while if it’s almost like your body rewards you and relaxes fat storage, or perhaps metabolism ramps up.

    Or maybe it’s also attributable to the so-much-better-now nutrition.

    FWIW, I needed 25-30% more calories than MFP predicted right from the start of loss. That's pretty much how I accidentally lost too fast at first, got weak and fatigued, before I realized.

    Some of that higher calorie need is possibly differences in starting muscle mass. I'm not any kind of Amazon-esque bodybuilder type (I wish, but I'm too lazy). But I do believe I have more muscle mass than the average woman of my age, and did have at the start of loss as well. (Without explaining the speculative arithmetic involved, I back-estimated what the statistically average 60-whatever woman's BF% would be at my BMI, and it's materially higher than mine, even if my estimate of mine is self-congratulatory.)

    But: At this point, your muscle mass is much higher than typical for your demographic, too. That's not a guarantee of substantially higher calorie needs, because the differential for muscle vs. fat at rest is so small, but it can be a factor. Also, you're way, way fitter than average for your demographic, which IMO is likely to translate into automagically higher NEAT for most people.

    On the nutrition side of things, there is some very limited, non-definitive research I've seen (small study) that suggested less-processed foods may have a substantially higher TEF than processed foods. While I obviously ate in stupid ways to get fat and stay fat, for decades a big chunk of my eating has been less-processed foods. When I started cutting calories, it became an even a bigger chunk, volume-wise.

    This was not an exercise in self-deprivation. It's that when I have priorities for how I spend calories, that's the food that wins, for me: Taste-preference-wise, not just nutrition, satiation, or (heaven forbid) orthorexy.

    Let me be utterly clear, @springlering62, I absolutely don't think that there's anything wrong with the way you eat. But the way you eat, as you describe it here, would make me completely miserable. (I do suspect I'd be hungry, but I'm not going to run that experiment ThankYouVeryMuch. Life is too short to eat food that makes me miserable.)

    I suspect your overall average nutrition is fine, and IMO that's important. If nutrition's very sub-par in some way, that can sometimes trigger appetite/cravings, but I'm guessing you're in OK shape nutritionally. I don't know how much perfectionism/orthorexy would add to calorie burn or satiation on top of reasonable overall nutrition, but I'm skeptical (on near zero evidence) that it'd be a big deal. Eating in ways that make you happy is a big deal, IMO.

    It's common advice around here that eating predominantly less-processed foods results in more satiety. I'm not fully convinced . . . but again, not willing to run the experiment on myself because it would make me miserable to eat predominantly highly-processed foods. (I do know that you eat a fair amount of less-processed foods in addition to more highly-processed ones. I'm just chatting here about satiety folklore on MFP, not accusing you of anything, still less telling you ought to do any particular thing. I don't hint. If it were criticism/advice, that'd be clear.)
    I eat about 1/2 to 2/3 my exercise calories back, and I earn a lot of exercise calories.

    I’ve averaged 2600-3000 a week for months now. Most days are around 2300, and then I’ll have basically a binge for a night or two. A family sized chocolate bar, a package of pizelle cookies,…..or both. 😬


    Even when I do, and check the damage next morning, I’m still reliably in my average weekly range. It’s almost like my body says,”Ok. Mathematically, that’s enough now, honey.”

    So you're eating less than maintenance most of the time, and more sometimes . . . really a lot more, sometimes.

    Which is exactly what I do. But I think of it as calorie banking for periodic indulgences, not as eating X calories then binging. I'm not telling you to think that way, either . . . and I'm sure some would see me as rationalizing bad behavior. I don't care. It's how I like to arrange my life. My life.

    I'm sure you know all the theory why an occasional big eating day can count less than expected. That "benefit" is limited, but it's potentially in the picture.

    ETA afterthought: The bolded would be "intuitive eating" under a maybe-pejorative alias, wouldn't it? ;)

    Not dehydrated. I’m drinking insane amounts of ice water. As doofus as it sounds, I’m wondering if all the ice I’m noshing on is contributing by lowering my core temperature, and the effort to reheat it. Or by same token, hot classes have been excessively hot and humid lately (obviously), and have been much more difficult as a result.

    Maintenance is hard, harder than the actual weight loss, requiring much self control and daily diligence, but has also been very very good to me. Things continue to change- body, muscle distribution, endurance, strength (in little bitty increments 😂) And I shouldn’t be here bellyaching about being hungry with such generous calories. (Although I do earn them, lest anyone think I’m supernaturally blessed.)

    I also do wonder whether your goal is high enough, though it's hard for me to tell based on limited information I pick up from casually reading your excellent threads/comments here. It seems like you repeatedly slip into losing too much weight, from that casual impression. IF that's so, you're training your body to expect famine, which is potentially going to increase adaptive thermogenesis, seems like.

    Folklore (and I think some research) also suggests that as a person gets leaner, under-eating is more likely to have appetite/cravings impact. You've gotten pretty lean at times, I think?

    Most days I eat around what you do, or a little less, usually 2200-ish (gross, not net), and - though I haven't estimated it precisely - I think the daily calorie bank is only around 150 calories or so (varies by season). My routine net goal is 1850. I only get 6,000-8,000 exercise calories per month (occasional spike to 10,000), so less than you, but I eat them all. (Of course, exercise calorie estimating is fraught.)

    I don't log/count the indulgent meals/days every time any more - often they involve foods that are in wild-guess territory for estimating, and generally (so far) I can keep weight in a reasonable range now without the effort of counting those. (I logged everything like it was religion during loss and the early phase of maintenance.)
    springlering62 wrote: »
    My new(ish) trainer asked me this morning if I’m losing weight again. I’ve been hanging out at 144, give or take a couple, for months now. I had suddenly noticed my clothes getting looser in the waistline, while biceps and thighs are starting to fit tighter, but I thought it was me.

    I’m freaking hungry all the time lately, for the first time since counting calories. I even wake up hungry.

    This comes while I’m also making a deliberate effort to cut back activity.

    This so all so damn confusing. Maintenance is confusing.

    I’m still “motivated” (dear lord I hate that word after years of being here!!!) not to get fat again, but sometimes it just feels like a full time job.

    /rant

    More folklore: Some people find that some exercise types help to moderate appetite. Could that be true for you?

    Also note: If clothes are looser in waist, tighter over quads/hams and biceps . . . well, muscle mass, leanness - calorie needs and appetite factors I mentioned a few paragraphs above. Getting leaner at the same weight (recomp) is "weight loss", in a appetite/hunger hormone sense, I think. Maybe your trainer's onto something.

    I'm sorry that you're feeling hungry, plus stressed about maintenance. I hope you'll understand the above as just chatting and speculating, not as some kind of directive. I think you've done a great job with both loss and maintenance, contributed so much good content to the Community, wish that your current course could somehow be easier and more confident for you. But I've got nothin'.
  • Pdc654
    Pdc654 Posts: 317 Member
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    springlering62 wrote: »
    My new(ish) trainer asked me this morning if I’m losing weight again. I’ve been hanging out at 144, give or take a couple, for months now. I had suddenly noticed my clothes getting looser in the waistline, while biceps and thighs are starting to fit tighter, but I thought it was me.

    I’m freaking hungry all the time lately, for the first time since counting calories. I even wake up hungry.

    This comes while I’m also making a deliberate effort to cut back activity.

    This so all so damn confusing. Maintenance is confusing.

    I’m still “motivated” (dear lord I hate that word after years of being here!!!) not to get fat again, but sometimes it just feels like a full time job.

    /rant

    @springlering62. I vote for recomp. I don't have any experience with it but if you're waist is smaller and you're arms and legs a bit bigger with no change in weight it would seem you are losing some fat while gaining muscle. Also, if you are hungry maybe you do need to eat back your exercise calories. Your body is trying to tell you something and maybe is it is saying eat more for those muscles.

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