Testosterone and calorie needs
yirara
Posts: 9,944 Member
So here it is: my big secret. 🏳️🌈 I'm on testosterone now. I'm non-binary and I'm planning top surgery, and I want to see what T does to me and how I feel with it. Not sure I'll stay on it though. I tried to figure out what T alone means with regards to calorie expenditure, but could not find a lot of info in the community. Some transdudes do heavy lifting and need a lot more calories than before, some see a sudden increase in weight (likely waterweight I'd guess), others just continue as before and feel constantly hungry. So.. at the moment I'm a bit confused on whether I need to change anything. Being a not tall, possibly menopausal xx-chromosome bearer, my weightloss calories are at 1400 plus exercise. And I'm trying to lose a bit more weight before surgery for the best possible outcome.
Has anyone actually looked into this? I'm slightly at a loss and not sure whether trial and error and just observing helps, or whether I might just imagining things 😅
Has anyone actually looked into this? I'm slightly at a loss and not sure whether trial and error and just observing helps, or whether I might just imagining things 😅
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Testosterone alone won't change your calorie needs. But increased heavy lifting/working out would.2
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That's the question though... There's not a lot of decent literature on this, a few self-reporting low cohort studies as far as I can see, and they don't seem to be conclusive. I don't expect full male calorie needs, but maybe a bit more just by naturally a bit more muscles? I have no idea.0
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T will encouragen muscle gain, strength and recovery. It also help to retain muscle if you're on a weight loss regimen.
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T will encouragen muscle gain, strength and recovery. It also help to retain muscle if you're on a weight loss regimen.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yep. I'm curious what happens. Well, my weightloss was a bit too fast to start with and I tried to slow down. So I guess I'll notice when something totally unexpected happens. Do wonder if water retention from working out might initially be stronger, because maybe stronger workout and stronger healing/regeneration.0 -
I'm really glad you felt comfortable sharing.
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I admit zero actual relevant expertise (other than having a friend who transitioned in the other direction).
From general ill-founded speculation, it seems like any change you might see in calorie needs would be somewhat gradual? More "turning a battleship" than "on/off switch"?
It does take a material amount of calories to build a pound of muscle, and a bit extra to maintain a pound, but even with your good exercise schedule, it seems like the process would still take weeks, so be observable if you're monitoring calorie intake and body weight, not to mention subjective feelings of fatigue or the like.
I'm glad, too, that you felt comfortable sharing here.
One further comment, about top surgery: I had something similar (a bit more severe, actually) because mine went rogue and tried to kill me, back in 2000.
The surgery itself wasn't particularly difficult, nor was the surgical recovery. It's not functional tissue, in a day to day sense. The drains were annoying (and I needed more because of underarm lymph nodes removed on one side), but manageable. There were lifting restrictions for a while, of course. I was healed enough in a month that we went on to chemotherapy, and I think most of the restrictions had been removed by then. Long term, it's been completely nonproblematic. (I didn't have reconstruction.)
Best wishes through the process: I hope it will be a hugely positive change for you!5 -
Aww, thanks a lot @AnnPT77 Yes, I know your body tried to kill yourself
I hope you don't think it's odd that I want to get rid of the same tissue that is healthy. I'm not too worried about the surgery, mind. And it will still take at least another 6 months as procedures here on health insurances are somewhat lengthy. But I can't wait. Phew. 2 -
Aww, thanks a lot @AnnPT77 Yes, I know your body tried to kill yourselfI hope you don't think it's odd that I want to get rid of the same tissue that is healthy. I'm not too worried about the surgery, mind. And it will still take at least another 6 months as procedures here on health insurances are somewhat lengthy. But I can't wait. Phew.
Nope. I probably wouldn't have made that choice myself, but I think it's a valid and reasonable one in the right circumstances. That's true whether circumstances like yours, or in cases I know where a woman made that choice in order to reduce certain health risks. Other than for feeding babies, that tissue is functionally optional.
For me, other than when dressing up in more female-esque clothing for special events, that tissue is aesthetically optional, too. You won't have that clothing issue. (I use protheses to make dressy dresses fit, on occasion.)
There's no reason - speaking to others here, more than you - to assume that there will be loss of sensation. I have some nerve damage and a still-numb area under my left arm, but it's minor, and resulted from the lymph node removal part of it.4 -
If you’re potentially menopausal then obviously you’re of a “certain age”, as we politely call it down here. I’m utterly in awe of your decision and sincerely hope it brings you much happiness and satisfaction. You’ve had the time and experience to think all this through, so more power to you.
Nothing else to add, except that having had a reduction, tissue around, on, and under your breasts is about as flimsy as wet Kleenex. Do everything your docs tell you to to promote healing, and don’t think you, uh, know better than them. Because, speaking from experience, I damn well didn’t.
Heck, I begged my doc to take it all, though not for your reasons, simply because I’d had a lifetime of mega boobs and was totally over boobs, if ya get me but he refused. He said I’d regret it. No, he was just another man who couldn’t imagine a woman not wanting something there.
Wow, you are really breaking new ground. This is going to come out all wrong, but you hear about younger folk, never the older ones. I hope you’ll be comfortable enough, since you’re amongst friends, to share some of the journey.
Hugs to you and an easy, pain free journey to where you want to get to.8 -
springlering62 wrote: »If you’re potentially menopausal then obviously you’re of a “certain age”, as we politely call it down here. I’m utterly in awe of your decision and sincerely hope it brings you much happiness and satisfaction. You’ve had the time and experience to think all this through, so more power to you.
Nothing else to add, except that having had a reduction, tissue around, on, and under your breasts is about as flimsy as wet Kleenex. Do everything your docs tell you to to promote healing, and don’t think you, uh, know better than them. Because, speaking from experience, I damn well didn’t.
Heck, I begged my doc to take it all, though not for your reasons, simply because I’d had a lifetime of mega boobs and was totally over boobs, if ya get me but he refused. He said I’d regret it. No, he was just another man who couldn’t imagine a woman not wanting something there.
Wow, you are really breaking new ground. This is going to come out all wrong, but you hear about younger folk, never the older ones. I hope you’ll be comfortable enough, since you’re amongst friends, to share some of the journey.
Hugs to you and an easy, pain free journey to where you want to get to.
Aww, thanks a lot hun Yeah, I had a long, very long time to think it all through. And mind you, it's not just something you want to do and then do. You have to go through a very lengthy process in many European countries to get there. In some countries us NB folks don't even have this possibility. Thus not a hasty decision. While I'm not as endowed as many women I'm just totally fed up with this super annoying tissue. On that note: sculptors of classical antiquity statues would have shout out: Why the *kitten* why!?! But yeah, it's totally not me, how nice and aesthetically pleasing the whole thing(s).
And T.. well, it's an experiment to be honest. It was either that or female hormone replacement therapy. I have the option to try both. So what the heck, even though some changes will be permanent. But hey, as with weight training I won't wake up one day and have the chest hair of Sean Connery
(I'm taking a blocker anyway to prevent this). Hoping my Ehlers-Danlos body will be a bit more stable as well eventually. So lets see what happens. The only thing happening so far though is orthostatic hypotension from hell. That's not mentioned in side effects notes
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May be worth reaching out to Alex Tilinca (professional trans male bodybuilder). I also had a trans male coach for the photoshoot I did for my 4th birthday - Nikias Tomasiello (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong). Very open & accessible if you have any questions (my kid is gender non-conforming & Nik was awesome to talk to about some of the issues there)3
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I'm guessing that the residual breast tissue makes things more difficult. I don't know how much they take/leave in the type of top surgery yirara is having.springlering62 wrote: »(snip)
Nothing else to add, except that having had a reduction, tissue around, on, and under your breasts is about as flimsy as wet Kleenex. Do everything your docs tell you to to promote healing, and don’t think you, uh, know better than them. Because, speaking from experience, I damn well didn’t.
For you, they left - I would bet - a fair bit; for me, as little as possible.
Gravity on healing tissue is a b-word. I didn't need compression per se at all, though there were substantial bandages for a few days. Then, just gauze pads & tape locally.
Through being active in support groups, I have many friends who've had mastectomies with/without reconstruction, and various degrees of lumpectomy. Lumpectomy, other than perhaps the very smallest, seems harder than mastectomy, and reconstruction usually the most difficult, especially own-tissue (no implant) reconstruction.Heck, I begged my doc to take it all, though not for your reasons, simply because I’d had a lifetime of mega boobs and was totally over boobs, if ya get me but he refused. He said I’d regret it. No, he was just another man who couldn’t imagine a woman not wanting something there.
(snip)
My surgeon didn't want to do the bilateral I wanted, either. On a closer exam, turned out I had tumors in both, so got my preferred way in the end. 😆 (Not recommending that strategy to anyone!)
Not meaning to derail your thread into a general discussion of these surgeries, yirara. More, trying to reach a realistic idea of what you may experience.
Not sure whether they leave a bit of breast tissue in your type of surgery, yirara, as both sexes have some, women typically more, men typically less. (Yes, that does imply that men can get breast cancer. It's more often fatal for them, because under-noticed and diagnosed late.)
In my case, I'm very slightly concave, probably not aesthetically optimal for anyone. (I don't mind.)2 -
No, please ladies, discuss on! No problem with that.0
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Your body is going to be going through a lot of fluctuations related to all the hormone changes whether it's menopause or the meds. I've gone through menopause so I can speak about that and I have a transgender offspring and and supported them as they adjusted to the meds. Focus on healthy habits and monitor your weight and anticipate fluctuations for a few months.
Check out the OutFoundation.org
They might have some useful tips on exercise as they are focused on exercise and healthy lifestyles and gym inclusion for the Lgbtq+ community.
Chloie Jonnson might also be a Good resource she is a nutritional coach and CrossFit trainer. And really nice
https://www.instagram.com/chlojonsson/?hl=en
Wishing you the best with the transition.
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Well... maybe your tracker exercise calories will now be closer to reality? Over-time I would think you will burn a few more calories to fuel additional lean mass? And... keep your temper: no bar fights!
*sources? I've got nada!0 -
Thanks a lot PAV I'll try not to get into bar flights. Maybe I now DO get the sudden urge to go to bars Yeah, sources is a problem: the community is full of bro science, possibly even more so than the average weightloss and fitness forum outside of MFP. Lets see what happens. One positive effect though: I went to bed and had forgotten to turn on my electric mattress topper. It was 15.5C in the bedroom, and I was for once not freezing. Heck, I've not turned the heating on today and I'm still not feeling cold. That's rather pleasant 5
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Thanks a lot PAV I'll try not to get into bar flights. Maybe I now DO get the sudden urge to go to bars Yeah, sources is a problem: the community is full of bro science, possibly even more so than the average weightloss and fitness forum outside of MFP. Lets see what happens. One positive effect though: I went to bed and had forgotten to turn on my electric mattress topper. It was 15.5C in the bedroom, and I was for once not freezing. Heck, I've not turned the heating on today and I'm still not feeling cold. That's rather pleasant
They do say that women generally prefer a slightly higher room temperature than men (in the office for example), maybe it's a hormonal thing
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Yeah, quite possible. This is rather pleasant! Of course it's possible that I'm currently burning all the calories! without doing anything🤣
Well, my travel water weight has gone completely. So.. 9 days of 100gr daily crisps and somewhat irregular eating had no effect. Uh.. and I just booked a flight to Azerbaijan next year. I'm still the same I guess. 😬2 -
You've cracked the Code.
Go on holiday. Eat only bread and crisps. Maintain weight.
I can see no downside here.
I know less than zero about the topic here. Congrats...if that's the right thing to say. Aack. I'm so awkward, but I'm happy for you! :flowerforyou:2 -
cmriverside wrote: »You've cracked the Code.
Go on holiday. Eat only bread and crisps. Maintain weight.
I can see no downside here.
I know less than zero about the topic here. Congrats...if that's the right thing to say. Aack. I'm so awkward, but I'm happy for you! :flowerforyou:
Aww, thanks a lot hun Really appreciated
I did eat meaty things, salads and additional stuff, mind. The best was probably a slightly fermented buckwheat porridge with duck Hmm.. maybe I should write a diet plan and sell it for 💰 1 -
Calorie needs are probably not a specific subject here but Sam Bettens (lead singer of K's Choice, famous Belgian band) did a series of vlogs on his transition, in case it interests you: https://www.youtube.com/@SamBettens557/videos0
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Oh wow, thanks a lot! I do know the band name and that they're Belgian, but that's pretty much it.0
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So here it is: my big secret. 🏳️🌈 I'm on testosterone now. I'm non-binary and I'm planning top surgery, and I want to see what T does to me and how I feel with it. Not sure I'll stay on it though. I tried to figure out what T alone means with regards to calorie expenditure, but could not find a lot of info in the community. Some transdudes do heavy lifting and need a lot more calories than before, some see a sudden increase in weight (likely waterweight I'd guess), others just continue as before and feel constantly hungry. So.. at the moment I'm a bit confused on whether I need to change anything. Being a not tall, possibly menopausal xx-chromosome bearer, my weightloss calories are at 1400 plus exercise. And I'm trying to lose a bit more weight before surgery for the best possible outcome.
Has anyone actually looked into this? I'm slightly at a loss and not sure whether trial and error and just observing helps, or whether I might just imagining things 😅
I don't know about transition. However, you may want to look into studies where testosterone was given to patients who stopped producing their own through accident, surgery, or disease. There have been more studies on that. It won't be the same, but might give you a jumping-off point.
Study on increased Testerone and weight loss
I'm assuming --and it may be wrong--that when people first go on T, they get increased appetite--just like you would with puberty. Technically, it is a 2nd puberty. The hunger increase should taper off. Eventually, the T should build higher muscle tone and make it slightly easier to maintain your weight.
But transition is slightly different than childhood puberty--so things may vary.
In the short term, i wouldn't change anything. If you gain or lose to fast, you can adjust.
Good luck.
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Well, one thing I can say: I have absolutely no hunger. Like: If I eat something I do because I want something yummy or because I'm bored or because I always eat at that time. But then my stomach feels really full very early on. I do put this down as some odd kind of placebo effect.1
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I can share a bit of second hand data, hope it will help. I'm CIS but a close family member is a trans man taking testosterone. He is around 5 foot 2 and 120ish pounds so pretty small and does work out but unfortunately hasn't had a huge increase in caloric burn since transitioning. Maybe 100 extra calories per day after a few years of T.
Wishing you the best!2 -
Not hungry was not what I was expecting to hear!
I guess the trend, in the end, will still tell you what the trend really is! At least once things settle down a bit! 🤷♂️1 -
Yeah, it's seriously odd, but I'm sure things will settle and all will go back to normal.
For now, sitting in a meeting that overruns massively and I'm not getting hungry is somewhat pleasant. Not the meeting obviously, but feeling fine is. 2 -
I can share a bit of second hand data, hope it will help. I'm CIS but a close family member is a trans man taking testosterone. He is around 5 foot 2 and 120ish pounds so pretty small and does work out but unfortunately hasn't had a huge increase in caloric burn since transitioning. Maybe 100 extra calories per day after a few years of T.
Wishing you the best!
Thanks a lot! That's super interesting. I honestly don't expect anything dramatic, but the community is so full of bro science it's unreal.1 -
No insight or anything from me, but just sending you good vibes for your journey 😀1
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