Counting calories so insane !
Replies
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cmriverside wrote: »Yeah, ddsb, this isn't a conspiracy theory or fearmongering, it's a known fact. You okay?
I mean, I think so. Sometimes I don’t know if I’m having unusual Autistic sensitivity. I’m happy to look at my shortcomings. But, I also hope you can see where I’m coming from.7 -
@kshama2001 regarding your post, I actually have more questions than answers, but I feel like I’ve interrupted the OP’s post enough. I wish your question was another post because I think research to make things delicious is important but probably not as important as we make it. Maybe we can tackle that someday.1
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When your offered or introduced to hyperpalatable food choices
it becomes difficult to resist because they stimulate the brain’s reward system, which creates feelings of pleasure and satisfaction which may affect the ability to control food intake and cravings and this is mostly due to food availability, cost, convenience, advertising and peer pressure. Basically they've been engineered to be this way and rely heavily on human physiology for this effect. They modify the release of hormones that regulate hunger, stress, and metabolism and there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
You say this as if it’s a fact and this WILL happen. This is a scare tactic that gets increasingly old to me. If this is your experience, please, just say that. And, it’s possible you don’t need to change your food, but potentially need psychotherapy due to your fear of sugar and insulin.
For *me* allowing a variety of foods, especially the ones you demonize, has prevented more eating disorders than created.
💯 on point. Well said.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Yeah, ddsb, this isn't a conspiracy theory or fearmongering, it's a known fact. You okay?
I mean, I think so. Sometimes I don’t know if I’m having unusual Autistic sensitivity. I’m happy to look at my shortcomings. But, I also hope you can see where I’m coming from.
Your response felt out of character to me as well.
I can get annoyed at any type of WOE – evangelism, whether it be keto through vegan, but I maintain that’s not what was going on in the post you quoted.
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@kshama2001 regarding your post, I actually have more questions than answers, but I feel like I’ve interrupted the OP’s post enough. I wish your question was another post because I think research to make things delicious is important but probably not as important as we make it. Maybe we can tackle that someday.
I think you’re talking about my “salt sugar fat“ post? I’ll see if I can bump an old discussion about that.
@lemurcat2 read it as well and had some good takes on it. Maybe she can find an old thread faster 😉1 -
I think this thread has made a logical progression:
OP: I want to try intuitive eating
Me: I can eat intuitively in the absence of hyper palatable foods
N: yes, these are the physiological and sociological reasons why hyper palatable foods are unhelpful, plus a population case study
D : Pushes back
More discussion.0 -
N : there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
False. Many of us learned/can learn how to eat HPF without elimination.
D : Cutting out entire food groups or forcing yourself to follow strict rules can end up doing more harm to your physical and mental health than good.
This is my point of contention. If you have a medical issue then your specific diet is recommended *for you*. If you don’t have a medical condition “sometimes doing the internal work of creating a better- routine, habit, relationship with food, is what is actually necessary”. Not eliminating foods altogether.
Yes, HPF are delicious and we want them. But they’re not the evil some claim them to be.
Apologies if my tone was insensitive. I can accept that and try better next time.
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Good for you, but clearly that ain't working at the population level, and I think it's obvious that's what he was talking about and it shouldn't really need to be spelled out. I mean, do you really believe that he was saying not a single person on the planet can escape ultra processed foods?N : there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
False. Many of us learned how to eat HPF without elimination.1 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Good for you, but clearly that ain't working at the population level, and I think it's obvious that's what he was talking about and it shouldn't really need to be spelled out. I mean, do you really believe that he was saying not a single person on the planet can escape ultra processed foods?N : there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
False. Many of us learned how to eat HPF without elimination.
I can only respond to what he said.2 -
Fair enough.I can only respond to what he said.
It's like,
"People get wet when it rains."
"Not me. I have an umbrella, so that's a false statement, it's not true. They should have said, 'People get wet when it rains, if they don't have an umbrella.', if that's what they meant. I can only go by what I see."2 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Fair enough.I can only respond to what he said.
It's like,
"People get wet when it rains."
"Not me. I have an umbrella, so that's a false statement, it's not true. They should have said, 'People get wet when it rains, if they don't have an umbrella.', if that's what they meant. I can only go by what I see."
This is a dieting site… Where someone routinely recommends to dieters to eliminate foods. This can cause more mental and physical problems than you want to acknowledge apparently. You’re welcome to minimize that. I see it differently. But, let’s give this back to the OP.6 -
I don't know about K and N and D but I do know about P!
You can prevent pregnancy 100% of the time if gametes do not commingle. But choosing to avoid commingling activities, disapproving socially or legislatively of such commingling, or offering ways that activities that can lead to the commingling do not result in such can ALL succeed for many and FAIL for many. And all of them have a degree of "hard to do" associated with them because some commingling situations are fun and humans are driven to them.
Now I don't know if commingling activities are hyper-palatable or just palatable; but they sure are engineered to light up light bulbs. And yet there do exist many people who by choice or not are in 0% danger because they don't engage in activities that COULD lead to the commingling of gametes... and others who also don't "fall into the trap" even though they do engage in such behaviors because they have in place a defensive bulwark of appropriate "precautions". Thus they manage to avoid the commingling in spite of engaging in dangerous games.
Sounds a bit like choose your hard doesn't it!
That said.
Intuitive eating.
Are we willing to accept that absent some emotional, hyper-palatable, or in any case some sort of ADDITIONAL component, our default state would be to:
a) Maintain current weight OR
b) Increase current weight to pad up our reserves for the times of not plenty
I mean I don't think that I've seen many arguments that, absent an external push or illness, "getting leaner till you're perfect for you" is a default trajectory that's often encountered.
And isn't intuitive eating supposed to listen to one's body?
So conceptually I can see intuitive eating netting a small loss from a starting position of persistent overfeeding. But I can't see intuitive eating leading to multi-kg/mult-lb losses. What am I missing?3 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Good for you, but clearly that ain't working at the population level, and I think it's obvious that's what he was talking about and it shouldn't really need to be spelled out. I mean, do you really believe that he was saying not a single person on the planet can escape ultra processed foods?N : there's really no good way to get around this sans the removal of these types of foods.
False. Many of us learned how to eat HPF without elimination.
I can only respond to what he said.
Let me remind you of my first post in this thread.
Intuitive eating is basically eating to satiety and where your not gaining weight. Whole foods helps this situation a lot as does the type of carbs your consuming. You want whole grains and legumes to displace any refined grains for the most part, cut back as much as you can on any sugary foods and sugary liquids and that includes fruit juices. Satiety is basically gut and brain hormonal signaling, and very easily disrupted when your carb allotment is comprised of mostly of the refined and sugary foods, and why I suggest you change that, it may work, it works for many. Low carb and ketogenic diets are the go to for intuitive eating and many that are successful don't count calories, myself included.
A balance diet as you say is a conversation with a lot of nuance because what one persons says a balanced diet is may not be suitable for another. There's allergies and intolerances, some people have specific medical conditions like diabetes, kidney disease, hypertension, PCOS, etc Peoples lifestyle, cultural traditions and religion play into someones dietary preferences.
What I've always maintained is replacing as much processed and UPF with whole foods is a healthier roots to take and whether that's a Mediterranean or a vegetarian diet or a low carb diet for that matter makes no difference and I've continually said that ad nauseum, no doubt about that. There's no way processed and UPF can be eliminated entirely from any diet, which imo might be at the root of your argument.
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Counting calories "for me" has been all about ensuring I have enough macros. (Protein 30-50 gr, carbs 20-50 gr and 15-25 gr of fat. If you want to learn more, there is a great podcast Dr. Gabrielle Lyons Show - centered around muscle centric medicine. Game changer. As for intuitive eating, that comes when you have learned 'how to eat' 'when to eat' and 'what to eat'. If you enter in your food for a period of time, you'll have ideally created healthy eating habits and over time will become intuitive. Happy counting 2
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@osmith1999 I would like to write it down the food that I usually eat to loose weight and please let me know what do you think.
I eat 2 eggs in the am with low carb tortilla
For lunch berries yogurt and salat and meat .
Dinner salat and meat.Trying very hard to not eat junk food and no soda for me.No sweets.I eat 3 dates for snack and chocolate almond sometimes.I crave bread pasta sweets all the time.I get 1200 cal a day.I not happy with my weight lost journey.I work out 3 times a
Day.I am 5,4 168lb.1 -
@serpilchipa336
Have you heard of TOPS (take off pounds sensibly).
Disclaimer--I've never been a member and never researched it seriously.
They have a free website. If you do a search for their 1200 calorie diet, it looks a lot like what you're trying to do. It used to be recommended by the diabetes organization. That's why I know about it. Late onset Type 2 diabetes is prevalent in my family. I think there's a lot of good in the general ideas it offers. Just eating healthy in a sensible way that fits your life.
Eta
--I'm not suggesting you do 1200 calories, only that you check it out for general health and happiness.1 -
serpilchiba336 wrote: »I would like to write it down the food that I usually eat to loose weight and please let me know what do you think.
I get 1200 cal a day.I not happy with my weight lost journey.I work out 3 times a Day.I am 5,4 168lb.
So you are going to lose weight in a completely different way than you are planning to maintain weight?
So you are eating 1200 Cal, the minimum for females, probably because you want to lose as fast as possible.
AND... you are not happy. How surprising. Working out 3 times a day. Hungry. Strung out. And not getting the results your work should bring to you.
Scenario #1: I go all out. I do everything as intensely as possible. Things don't work out as expected or something happens that distracts me. I give up.
Scenario #2: I look into ways to introduce gradual PERMANENT changes into my life promoting the end weight and type of life I will be living for the next two, three, five, TEN years. The type of life I have to start living if I want to be able to be closer to normal weight than to high overweight.
In scenario #1 time matters because I want to get this done as fast as possible to get on with the fun parts of life.
In scenario #2 time and large deficits matter way less. This is my life going forward so it has to be something that is both somewhat do-able, enjoy-able, and relatively easier to do. It is both MORE work to figure things out and less work to keep on doing them when you start adding more and more things that work for you.
I believe that only one scenario has a fair chance of working for more than a year or two at a time.4 -
serpilchiba336 wrote: »@osmith1999 I would like to write it down the food that I usually eat to loose weight and please let me know what do you think.
I eat 2 eggs in the am with low carb tortilla
For lunch berries yogurt and salat and meat .
Dinner salat and meat.Trying very hard to not eat junk food and no soda for me.No sweets.I eat 3 dates for snack and chocolate almond sometimes.I crave bread pasta sweets all the time.I get 1200 cal a day.I not happy with my weight lost journey.I work out 3 times a
Day.I am 5,4 168lb.
Did you mean to say you work out 3 times per week or do you really work out 3 times a day? What percentage of the calories that you burn from exercise are you eating back?
After you lose 28 pounds you will the at the top of the Healthy weight range. Perhaps your goal weight is 130 pounds, 38 pounds away.
If your weekly weight loss goal was 1 pound a week, you'd get 1380 calories per day. To get only 1200 calories, you've chosen a more aggressive weekly weight loss goal. No wonder you're not happy with your weight loss journey.kshama2001 wrote: »First let's make sure you set a reasonable weekly weight loss goal. Is your rate of loss in line with this chart?
Going for 2 pounds per week without having the excess weight to support that rate of loss would definitely be stressful.3 -
@yirara I feel like I don’t know when I am full so I over eat .I feel guilty when my stomach feels stuffed.I don’t like that I can’t eat whatever I want when ever I want.I don’t have good relationship with food.I eat 50 percent healthy I think but there are days I just want to smother my face with chocolate and junk food.I get upset and feel desperate .I go few days eating less and healthy and than I give up.Consistency is the key but I just don’t know how to be consistent ..Thanks for reading and commenting.1
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@ddsb1111 I am having a therapy and hoping I will be ok one day .Thanks for your time.5
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serpilchiba336 wrote: »@ddsb1111 I am having a therapy and hoping I will be ok one day .Thanks for your time.
One day at a time.
You got this.
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@Jacq_qui Hi! Thanks for your comment.I absolutely agree with what you said.My goal is to loose 30 pound and maintain .I am supposed to have 1500 cal a day .I wasn’t happy when I was 140 Lb pound and I was dieting to be 130 Lb now I am 168 LB I am on therapy because I am suffering with bulimia .😢2
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@serpilchiba336 I would have a serious talk with your therapist/counselor/advisor/medical practitioner about what you're currently doing with your food intake and diet.
Are they aware off and in agreement with your course of action/current quest to lose weight while you are simultaneously trying to tackle an ED?4 -
@neanderthin Hi there!Thanks for commenting.I don’t have any schedule meal .What do you mean by schedule meal? I eat sometimes 9 sometimes earlier in the am I get hungry every 3 hours because I don’t eat a lot.I eat between lunch 12-2 and than 5 or 6pm dinner .I am hungry around 9 pm but not eat and feel like starving.I feel like I have to eat 6 meals .1
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serpilchiba336 wrote: »@neanderthin Hi there!Thanks for commenting.I don’t have any schedule meal .What do you mean by schedule meal? I eat sometimes 9 sometimes earlier in the am I get hungry every 3 hours because I don’t eat a lot.I eat between lunch 12-2 and than 5 or 6pm dinner .I am hungry around 9 pm but not eat and feel like starving.I feel like I have to eat 6 meals .
Hi. Yeah, that was just a general statement to suggest that if the stomach has lots of fiber with no sugar content, like a green salad before a main meal, whatever that might be, slows digestion and interferes with the normal insulin response if someone was consuming a meal with starchy carbs and sugars, which translates into more satiety and better to address our fulness hormones. Of course it depends on what your actually eating or when you eat, which you haven't disclosed, so again just a general statement and this also helps the "intuitive eating" parameters to more easily be met. I hope that makes more sense. It sounds like you may be consuming low calorie and low fat foods, which is popular in a whole food plant based diet, maybe your vegetarian, but that's just a guess. Like I mentioned in my first post, intuitive eating is generally described as the ability to consume food without gaining weight, which is directly related to the types of food a person eats and it's effect on satiety and that salad before a main meal, helps that cause 1 -
@serpilchiba336
I'm inspired by your workouts. Actually what you're eating doesn't look bad per se but you will probably need to make changes to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I am also 5'4 and my set point (highest weight) is 185lbs. Today I am consistently at 149ish from casual dietary changes alone. I lost 25lbs within a few months by switching to more whole plant foods and I am never hungry. I recently started working on losing more because A1C (blood sugar) is in pre-diabetic range. I'm 67. What we eat is the biggest factor in weight loss. Changes take time so select a place to start and don't do too much at once.
Cravings are there because of what we are used to eating. I was raised that food was a reward and sweets were celebrations. When I eat sweets (cake ice cream candy etc) it often triggers my desire for salt (potato chips, french fries). I have reprogrammed myself and changed my diet so that cravings are controlled. Beside healthy eating drinking hot and cold tea, coffee, fruit infused water also helps to reduce cravings.
You can reduce the meat, eggs, yogurt, breads, sugared chocolate. These foods bring in fat and fast burning carbs which means they will increase our appetite and cravings. Trade them for slower burning higher nutrient foods. Add in more veges. Include healthy carbs that will cut your cravings for fast burning carbs ( include beans, squash, potatoes, true whole grains, potatoes, etc.). Pasta is okay but be careful with frequency and quantity. I eat Barilla protein pasta about 1 week. Nuts are good for us and best if unsalted and "raw". Consider whole grains for breakfast also. (I recommend Bobs Red Mill steel cut oats) with fruits and nut/seeds. Chocolate is good for us but without the sugar. I started off by allowing myself portions of a Hershey's almond bar. Now I eat raw chocolate nibs with with dates and unsalted dry roasted peanuts (better than Snickers). I only do bread or tortillas once or twice a week.
Expand the salads and water. There are so many different types of salads and you can have one with each meal. Eat a salad and drink water before the other food and it will help with appetite. Instead of meat add more veges to your lunch salad. Raw veges are actually negative calories and make great snacks along with fruit. Again I made these changes over time so be patient with yourself.
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serpilchiba336 wrote: »I am giving this thing a try but I think it triggers my anxiety more.I feel like I am pressuring my self to eat less and that is causing me to have more stress.I want to practice intuitive eating.serpilchiba336 wrote: »I am giving this thing a try but I think it triggers my anxiety more.I feel like I am pressuring my self to eat less and that is causing me to have more stress.I want to practice intuitive eating.serpilchiba336 wrote: »I am giving this thing a try but I think it triggers my anxiety more.I feel like I am pressuring my self to eat less and that is causing me to have more stress.I want to practice intuitive eating.
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I think you are probably already practicing intuitive eating and that’s why you are exploring calorie awareness.
I call it awareness because monitoring out as well as in makes a huge difference.
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osmith1999 wrote: »@serpilchiba336
I'm inspired by your workouts. Actually what you're eating doesn't look bad per se but you will probably need to make changes to get to and maintain a healthy weight. I am also 5'4 and my set point (highest weight) is 185lbs. Today I am consistently at 149ish from casual dietary changes alone. I lost 25lbs within a few months by switching to more whole plant foods and I am never hungry. I recently started working on losing more because A1C (blood sugar) is in pre-diabetic range. I'm 67. What we eat is the biggest factor in weight loss. Changes take time so select a place to start and don't do too much at once.
Cravings are there because of what we are used to eating. I was raised that food was a reward and sweets were celebrations. When I eat sweets (cake ice cream candy etc) it often triggers my desire for salt (potato chips, french fries). I have reprogrammed myself and changed my diet so that cravings are controlled. Beside healthy eating drinking hot and cold tea, coffee, fruit infused water also helps to reduce cravings.
You can reduce the meat, eggs, yogurt, breads, sugared chocolate. These foods bring in fat and fast burning carbs which means they will increase our appetite and cravings. Trade them for slower burning higher nutrient foods. Add in more veges. Include healthy carbs that will cut your cravings for fast burning carbs ( include beans, squash, potatoes, true whole grains, potatoes, etc.). Pasta is okay but be careful with frequency and quantity. I eat Barilla protein pasta about 1 week. Nuts are good for us and best if unsalted and "raw". Consider whole grains for breakfast also. (I recommend Bobs Red Mill steel cut oats) with fruits and nut/seeds. Chocolate is good for us but without the sugar. I started off by allowing myself portions of a Hershey's almond bar. Now I eat raw chocolate nibs with with dates and unsalted dry roasted peanuts (better than Snickers). I only do bread or tortillas once or twice a week.
Expand the salads and water. There are so many different types of salads and you can have one with each meal. Eat a salad and drink water before the other food and it will help with appetite. Instead of meat add more veges to your lunch salad. Raw veges are actually negative calories and make great snacks along with fruit. Again I made these changes over time so be patient with yourself.
Raw veggies are not negative calories. Some raw veggies are less bioavailable, probably. But not zero calorie, let alone negative.
Meat and eggs do not necessarily "bring in fats and fast burning carbs . . . and increase appetite". I'm sure the committed carnivores/keto folks here will speak up about how very sating they find foods like that. I'd say the same about yogurt: Plain nonfat yogurt is high in protein, does have some (inherent) carbs, but it's a staple food for me and does the very opposite of increase my appetite.
If you find that your eating style manages your appetite well for you, that's great, sincerely. Implying that some of these things are Universal Truths about appetite is not accurate, and the "negative calorie" thing is just plain false.
I'm not sure why it matters that you're 67 in this context. Not claiming more knowledge/wisdom because of that, I hope? Just in case it does matter for some reason I don't grasp . . . I'm 68.
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