Are children a right?

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Replies

  • Steven
    Steven Posts: 593 MFP Moderator
    Folks,

    I can see no reason not to let this debate continue, as long as the debate is on the TOPIC not on the character or intelligence of an individual POSTER.

    I'm going to clean up a bit by deleting posts that are attacking or insulting other members (THAT's squarely against forum rules). If you want to continue the debate on its merits, please refrain from attacking or insulting other members in the process.

    We'll reserve the right to lock the thread if it gets ugly in here.

    Thanks,
    Steven
    MyFitnessPal Staff
  • killerqueen17
    killerqueen17 Posts: 536 Member

    My $0.02. I am absolute sure that if we polled everyone on her, most of our parents could not afford us when we were conceived, yet we are still here.

    I actually agree with you... No need to be rude to me.
  • Grimmerick
    Grimmerick Posts: 3,342 Member
    Thank you too everyone that gave their opinion in an adult way. Whether we all agree or not, the debate is why we are here and it is truly cool when we can do it without insulting one another. I never gave my opinion just a question and I was attacked by people assuming they knew what my opinion was, well they don't. I do believe children should be a right, but we should be governed by common sense, not the government. My debates circle around a perfect world. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make a hell of a good debate. Thanks everybody!!!!!!
  • ItsCasey
    ItsCasey Posts: 4,021 Member
    You have a right to have children. You do NOT have a right to steal from other people in order to raise them, and that's what you're doing when you're already on public assistance and you make the conscious decision to have more kids.

    I remember a conversation a year or so back with a single mom receiving unemployment benefits. She told me that she had decided to stop looking for work and go on welfare because she wanted to have more kids and she had a right to be a stay-at-home mom and that the public should be willing to support her. It took every ounce of restraint I could muster not to verbally rip her to shreds, and if her kids hadn't been with her, I would have.
  • dgirllamius
    dgirllamius Posts: 171 Member
    So, what will happen if say, you lose your job for some reason (through choice, asked to leave etc)?

    Who are you going to go running to when you need money to feed and cloth yourself?

    There are people out there who do leech, but there are also people who don't. Some people don't enjoy it for one thing. I am one of those people, I'm finding it hard to get a job, I am doing courses so I can get a job, but until then...what can I do? My boyfriend doesn't get enough to support both of us, so I have no choice but to get assistance. I hate it as I've was working full time for 10 years prior to this.

    It's not just people who get pregnant and want money off the state. There are others who need it too. Some do leech, but not everyone. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?
  • Grimmerick
    Grimmerick Posts: 3,342 Member
    Folks,

    I can see no reason not to let this debate continue, as long as the debate is on the TOPIC not on the character or intelligence of an individual POSTER.

    I'm going to clean up a bit by deleting posts that are attacking or insulting other members (THAT's squarely against forum rules). If you want to continue the debate on its merits, please refrain from attacking or insulting other members in the process.

    We'll reserve the right to lock the thread if it gets ugly in here.

    Thanks,
    Steven
    MyFitnessPal Staff

    Sorry Steve....Thanks!!!!
  • mommared53
    mommared53 Posts: 9,543 Member
    Im a single parent and I have two kids and neither of them were planned but I don't believe in abortion and couldn't bear to give them up for adoption. I have been on public assistance but it was after I had my kids. I didn't get pregnant with either of my kids while I was on assistance. I haven't been on assistance for years now but I don't regret for one second having either of my kids even though we have been through some very rough times. I'm sure I'll get judged plenty for this but now I'm too old to care.
  • killerqueen17
    killerqueen17 Posts: 536 Member
    So, what will happen if say, you lose your job for some reason (through choice, asked to leave etc)?

    Who are you going to go running to when you need money to feed and cloth yourself?

    There are people out there who do leech, but there are also people who don't. Some people don't enjoy it for one thing. I am one of those people, I'm finding it hard to get a job, I am doing courses so I can get a job, but until then...what can I do? My boyfriend doesn't get enough to support both of us, so I have no choice but to get assistance. I hate it as I've was working full time for 10 years prior to this.

    It's not just people who get pregnant and want money off the state. There are others who need it too. Some do leech, but not everyone. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    YES. This is my point. I'm in the same situation as you, and it SUCKS. Honestly, I wish I could "afford" kids. I wish my husband hadn't gotten laid off, and I wish his Bachelor's degree was worth the tuition he paid for it... but for the time being, we're broke.

    And as a side note, just to put my business out there even more, I'm on BC-- but if that were to fail, I'd have my kid and apply for WIC to hold us over until he could get a job again... All a person can do is try their best to get by. The situation may not be ideal, but it is what it is.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    Are you asking all of us this? Well, if I couldn't work and needed government assistance, I would make sure I wasn't getting pregnant.
  • Johnnyswife
    Johnnyswife Posts: 1,447 Member
    Do you think people should be able to have as many children as they want regardless of if they can afford them or not? This is hypothetical so I am not talking about situations where people had their children when they could afford them and then lost their jobs. I mean a situation where you want to have a child or children that you know you can't afford and you will need assistance. To me a lot of people feel it's their right to have children whether they can take care of them or not. Thoughts? lets keep this a civil debate, all opinions welcome.
    Yes. I want a child badly and it breaks my heart that I cannot have one of my own. I wouldn't want to put extra strain on my husband with added bills and also on a child who would have to do without a lot of stuff. It would be hard for them to understand why they can't have/do certain things that their half sister can. (Her mom is better off and collects $600 a month in child support.)

    So I break my heart everry day knowing I can't afford a child, and will probably never have one unless our situation improves.

    We have the right and children are a gift, but its up to us to show reposibilityby making the right choice to have a child or not based on our home situation.

    Adding that I am not talking abortion..I am talking about making the choice to get pregnant, even if your unemployed and hoping things will work out for the best.
  • otr12
    otr12 Posts: 632 Member
    Yes, people should always have the right to have children.

    People need to preserve their right to do things, even if they are stupid things. I don't think it's right to have children you can't afford to care for, but that's an issue of character and not regulation.
  • Johnnyswife
    Johnnyswife Posts: 1,447 Member
    Ummm, why is this a topic on a weight loss website? ... walking away too.



    Ummm? Why do people have to add ummm to every reply when they have an issue with the topic? It comes across as rude and snotty even if that wasn't the intention..
  • darklord48
    darklord48 Posts: 114 Member
    I do think you have the right to have a child. I also think that if you abuse that right, by neglecting your child, being unable to provide for your child, abusing your child, etc, you should be prevented from having additional children.

    Someone in this thread said her husband lost his job, but if she were to get pregnant they would keep the child. I would also be do everything I could to make sure my wife didn't get pregnant while I was out of work. I would also keep the child if my wife became pregnant despite our best efforts. I don't think anyone here has issue with responsible people that in a normal economy are working and taking care of their families.

    The ones we seem to object to are parents who don't work and survive off the government, having children, often intentionally, and have no intention of providing for their family. I have seen parents like this that are loving, but unfortunately that love doesn't keep their child warm at night or fill their stomachs. I don't understand how you can love your child but be too lazy to get a job to provide for them.
  • vim_n_vigor
    vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member
    So, what will happen if say, you lose your job for some reason (through choice, asked to leave etc)?

    Who are you going to go running to when you need money to feed and cloth yourself?

    There are people out there who do leech, but there are also people who don't. Some people don't enjoy it for one thing. I am one of those people, I'm finding it hard to get a job, I am doing courses so I can get a job, but until then...what can I do? My boyfriend doesn't get enough to support both of us, so I have no choice but to get assistance. I hate it as I've was working full time for 10 years prior to this.

    It's not just people who get pregnant and want money off the state. There are others who need it too. Some do leech, but not everyone. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    I know that people need assistance from the government, legitimately and sometimes for extended periods of time. I don't have a problem with that, and if I am in a situation where I need it, I will be thankful for it. I haven't seen anyone here that says everyone on assistance is a bad person, or a leech. There are people who take advantage of the system and have kids for the sole purpose of getting more assistance.
    You have the right to have a child any time you want. While you are struggling right now, are you planning on having a child right now, or are you planning on waiting until things are more stable? I am not really expecting or wanting an answer to these questions. It is more the point that there are times that are better than others to have a child and choices should be made for the child,, not the adult's wants.
  • MFPAddict
    MFPAddict Posts: 2,069 Member
    It's not just people who get pregnant and want money off the state. There are others who need it too. Some do leech, but not everyone. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    I completely understand that this is a touchy subject for anyone currently on government assistance. However, I don't believe anyone stated that everyone on assistance is a leech.

    The thing that most have a problem with is people on assistance consciously growing their family, knowing they do not have the means to provide for a bigger family.

    My position certainly would NOT change if I were forced to go on government assistance. Even if my wife and I were trying to have another child, that effort would cease if either of us would lose our jobs.
  • killerqueen17
    killerqueen17 Posts: 536 Member

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    Are you asking all of us this? Well, if I couldn't work and needed government assistance, I would make sure I wasn't getting pregnant.

    But really, how would you make sure of that? I mean, birth control isn't foolproof, and I'm not going out to get myself or my husband sterilized just because he's out of work... lol

    All I'm saying is... stuff happens. Between my husband losing his job (hence the "broke"), myself working FT, and also enrolled in FT grad classes, a baby is the LAST thing I need right now! But if it happens, then I guess God has different plans for me than I do... haha :)
  • tmacs
    tmacs Posts: 60
    Love and caring is far more important than money in my eyes. I think there should be a psychological test depicting if you are capable of being a loving, caring, and nurturing parent before "allowing" you to reproduce.

    On the other hand, I do see your point...IF a family is already on assistance and struggling to keep a roof over their children's heads and food on their table, they should be practicing safe sex.
  • ItsCasey
    ItsCasey Posts: 4,021 Member
    So, what will happen if say, you lose your job for some reason (through choice, asked to leave etc)?

    Who are you going to go running to when you need money to feed and cloth yourself?

    There are people out there who do leech, but there are also people who don't. Some people don't enjoy it for one thing. I am one of those people, I'm finding it hard to get a job, I am doing courses so I can get a job, but until then...what can I do? My boyfriend doesn't get enough to support both of us, so I have no choice but to get assistance. I hate it as I've was working full time for 10 years prior to this.

    It's not just people who get pregnant and want money off the state. There are others who need it too. Some do leech, but not everyone. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    I doubt I would ever need government assistance if I lost my job because I have savings (specifically for the unlikely event that I lose my job). I also have family and friends who would help me out. That's the way it used to be in this country. Reaching into the pockets of taxpayers was the last resort, not the first one.

    But because our system (and our mindset) is different now, my general thought is that as long as you are genuinely looking for employment and doing something productive with the money you receive (like furthering your education so you can increase your job opportunities), I'm not going to demonize you as a leech because you're taking unemployment benefits. That's what they're for. It's the people who AREN'T looking for work and AREN'T trying to improve their employment prospects, yet continually make selfish decisions that cost the rest of us money who really piss me off. Like I said, I consider that theft, just as if they had walked in my home and stolen something of value to me.
  • vim_n_vigor
    vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    Are you asking all of us this? Well, if I couldn't work and needed government assistance, I would make sure I wasn't getting pregnant.

    But really, how would you make sure of that? I mean, birth control isn't foolproof, and I'm not going out to get myself or my husband sterilized just because he's out of work... lol

    All I'm saying is... stuff happens. Between my husband losing his job (hence the "broke"), myself working FT, and also enrolled in FT grad classes, a baby is the LAST thing I need right now! But if it happens, then I guess God has different plans for me than I do... haha :)

    That is quite a bit different than someone planning to have a child to get more support. Sure people get pregnant when they are not planning to. There are also people saying I don't need a job, I'll just have another kid and then get benefits that much longer. Not at all the same thing. If I lost my job and I was pregnant, there is no way I would give up my child. If I lost my job and wasn't pregnant, my husband would be cut off. You can ask him. I have done it before at times I knew we couldn't afford a child.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member

    It'd be interesting to know what half of you would do if you couldn't work anymore and needed government assistance. Won't be complaining then, will you?

    Are you asking all of us this? Well, if I couldn't work and needed government assistance, I would make sure I wasn't getting pregnant.

    But really, how would you make sure of that? I mean, birth control isn't foolproof, and I'm not going out to get myself or my husband sterilized just because he's out of work... lol

    All I'm saying is... stuff happens. Between my husband losing his job (hence the "broke"), myself working FT, and also enrolled in FT grad classes, a baby is the LAST thing I need right now! But if it happens, then I guess God has different plans for me than I do... haha :)

    I understand stuff happening, and that's why we have government assistance. I'm saying if you're already on government assistance, which is meant to help you until you get on your feet, having another child is irresponsible. I think we all know how NOT to get pregnant.

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