Feeling Let Down By My Fitnesspal: All Calories are NOT equal

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Pyramid, @PAV8888 ? There are a lot of different versions online. Some of them are screwball.

I'd probably go with Layne Norton's (as adapted from Eric Helms) but I can only find it quickly on Facebook, so the image might not be visible to all. Dunno.

You know that's even more relevant to what I'm advocating to the original one that is based on caloric balance at the base

Mind you: close call

Everything the op mentions at a quick glance has some optimizational benefit.

But optimizing comes after first base.

Does cutting on ultra processed ultra palatable food and increasing real "whole" foods help to manage weight?

Of course it does. Fewer more satiating calories is a great path to adherence because it makes it easier to control calories. But it is not a magic incantation to weight loss which by itself leads to results, thus you might as well give up for the weekend because you opened a bag of Doritos.

The results are from the long term caloric balance you achieve

Shel: when I first replied further up I had not realized that the post was coming from you.

Not everything is addressed with generalities and not everything is addressed by looking at the big picture.

Adjusting to where YOU ARE in a process is also, in my opinion, part of the flexibility you have to build in the process to reach the nirvana of "continuing compliance".

To wit: how long have you been at a deficit? how much have you been losing per unit of time? How large of a deficit are you running as compared to your TDEE? Has this increased or decreased in recent times? How about other stresses in your life? Mechanics DO matter in addition to the big picture.

Over the past decade I've certainly observed in my own specific case that: the larger the size of my deficit and/or the more time I've spent on a deficit the more likely I am to go off course or to hit a snag especially if something else happens at the same time to add to any stress I may be having.

It is not surprising really, when you think about it. Nor is it surprising, really, for the deficit to decrease over time.

Your OP gave me the vibe of a person unsure as to whether cutting calories will actually lead to weight loss. It sounded to me almost like someone who had tried to and not managed to see the results they were expecting and was looking for reasons why this may have been the case.

This is not what I would expect from someone well into the process and approaching goal weight, someone who has SEEN caloric deficits work.

Now. I am probably mis-interpreting based on a few scant words. And if that's the case you can chalk it to an active imagination.

So if none of that applies and you're in a groove and everything is going smoothly and you just want to start thinking about optimizing your nutrition to meet goals other than calories...

... by all means this is a great time to do so while still losing and having the cushion of a deficit in case any of your experiments go awry.

That is assuming you're already on board with the fact that you will have to continue managing your weight and food intake long term. Several years into maintenance. i.e. that you're not trying to manage weight loss for speed because you're not seeing results commensurate to your perception of your current effort.

But that you ARE relatively happy with just achieving direction and letting things roll slowly and cumulatively over time.

We may not live on a flat earth... but I would be perfectly happy with a flat weight curve at goal weight 100% pro flatten the curve baby-- as opposed to feeding increased weight swing perturbations.

If I can't flatten the upswings (which of course I would hope I would try to flatten to the maximum extent allowed by law and nature!!!), then I can most certainly try to flatten the downswing (when I am dealing with a dozen lbs as opposed to ten dozens!)

This is not something I had ever consciously done before this past decade and it has helped me with maintenance.

Anyway. There ARE hormonal side effects to weight loss. And as with any teenager... play carefully around hormones.

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shel80kg wrote: »

Hi Pav
Yup, c’est moi.
Great advice.
I followed Keto ala the Diet Whisper approach. If you are not familiar with the program, the diet supports high fat, moderate protein and little or no carbs (for 12 weeks at least) with the inclusion of several versions of fasting time. This is where I learned about the power of hormones (even for 64 year olds).
I truly appreciate your respectful warning that operating at a huge deficit (for too long) isn’t really a great idea at the very least and in truth unsustainable. I am slowly returning to a more “normal” (hopefully balanced diet). I am scared. I am daunted. Don’t want to ever go through this again. I don’t think I can avoid super refined and processed foods but I’m going to do my best. I hope I can stay on MFP if I haven’t overstayed my welcome and take advantage of the wisdom and support.
Maintenance is the key and the Earth is indeed round (globally speaking).
Thanks Pav
Shel

Hi, Shel -

I know you're a smart guy from your posts here. You're also - per the bolded - 100% normal, at least in IMU/IME.

It's normal to be worried about maintaining. It's easy to fall into thinking it's some kind of magic spell in which every syllable must be pronounced precisely, or demons are unleashed. Truly, it's not that. Don't fall for the evil-magical thinking.

Maintenance is very much like weight loss, with a few more calories. Eventually, with some maintenance success under our belts (heh), we can begin to be able to relax (stress-wise, anyway - still need some eating/activity guardrails, just like every other fortunate, developed-world person with access to a plethora of yummy, unsating, low nutrition foods).

You did the loss, you can do the maintenance. Really.

If you haven't yet, maybe go read some of the threads over in the "Goal: Maintaining Weight" part of the MFP Community. Sure, start with the "Most Helpful" section, but there are lots of other useful ones. (You'll easily find some longer threads where - from the title - you'll see that the OP is feeling anxiety about maintaining, and longer-term maintainers give them tips, similar to the way you are now. Good stuff in there.)

I know you've heard this, but I'm going to repeat it anyway: If you change your eating patterns, there's a chance that you'll see a sudden scale jump from more water retention. Don't panic. It's still just as true as ever that if your calorie surplus (or reduced movement) doesn't explain that gain, it isn't fat. If you keep eating in the new pattern at the same calorie level, part or all it may even hang around. (It requires more water retention to metabolize carbs.) NBD, it still isn't fat.

Refined and processed foods, in calorie-appropriate portions, in a context of reasonable overall nutrition, aren't deal-breakers . . . but they're more likely to become that if a person builds them up in their mind to have those awesome, awful magic power. Emotion (psychology generally) and intellect are not identical things. Use intellect. (That's coming from a woman who, as you know from other threads, rejects dualities . . . so you know I'm serious here. ).

You can stay on MFP as long as you like. I, among others, think doing that is helpful.

If you commit to making weight maintenance work, in the same way you've committed to making weight loss work, you're going to be fine.

You can do this, I'm sure. Part of the trick is that you, personally, need to find a way to believe that, and commit. There will be slips: Aren't there always? They only go beyond momentary blips if we give up and let the whole thing slide. Don't. It's that simple, and that hard.

Best wishes!

This is some assuming- but I've noticed a lot of complaints come from people who are guessing at what food entries to choose from the database and that they are disappointed that someone else's data is wrong.

shel80kg wrote: »

What a beautiful answer coming from a beautiful person. You captured. my anxiety (which is really just fear at the end of the day). Damn, I always make this about me and my emotions. Bet you guys are sick of hearing about my emotions/psychology. What can I eat to give me more intellect?
Thanks again.
Shel

I think my mama would've said liver, or spinach, or both.

With my luck, the answer is probably Oreos, Big Macs, or some other common thing I don't eat. (Not saying there's anything wrong with 'em, I just don't like 'em.)

Harvard's blog has an opinion: https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/foods-linked-to-better-brainpower

(I'm just kidding around now, as I'm sure you realize. Well, maybe except the Harvard part? Your intellect is fine. Managing that other stuff can be a challenge for any of us. :flowerforyou: All the best!)

maybe there is a reason my brain is going downhill? I did polish off the last 34.1g of mini chocolate eggs from the back of the drawer today but there was a distinct lack of oreos from my menu!!! No room in the calories budget for a big mac today sadly.

Just to add the obvious: I don't think there are many of us who have lost substantial amounts of weight who have not felt trepidation about our ability to maintain. I would say that I did not even start reducing my "vehemence" about logging and making sure I was hitting my targets for a good couple of years post my most rapid weight loss phase. In fact for more than a year after I started thinking of myself at maintenance.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

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shel80kg wrote: »

Hi Pav
Yup, c’est moi.
Great advice.
I followed Keto ala the Diet Whisper approach. If you are not familiar with the program, the diet supports high fat, moderate protein and little or no carbs (for 12 weeks at least) with the inclusion of several versions of fasting time. This is where I learned about the power of hormones (even for 64 year olds).
I truly appreciate your respectful warning that operating at a huge deficit (for too long) isn’t really a great idea at the very least and in truth unsustainable. I am slowly returning to a more “normal” (hopefully balanced diet). I am scared. I am daunted. Don’t want to ever go through this again. I don’t think I can avoid super refined and processed foods but I’m going to do my best. I hope I can stay on MFP if I haven’t overstayed my welcome and take advantage of the wisdom and support.
Maintenance is the key and the Earth is indeed round (globally speaking).
Thanks Pav
Shel

Hi, Shel -

I know you're a smart guy from your posts here. You're also - per the bolded - 100% normal, at least in IMU/IME.

It's normal to be worried about maintaining.

And perhaps a bit of worry is a good thing? I didn't worry particularly about maintaining when I was losing. And then, just before I reached my goal weight (admittedly, a revised lower goal weight after reaching my first goal) I loosened the reins a little and weight started creeping up, slowly. So slowly that I thought indulging wasn't doing any harm. Until some items of my brand-new wardrobe starting feeling tight. That's when I said 'uh oh' and realised I should have been a bit more worried about maintaining



So currently I'm inching my way down to my goal weight again, with ups and downs.

Did I fail at maintenance? Well yeah, technically. But people don't go back to their starting weight overnight, there is time to nip it in the bud, provided you keep your head in the game when starting maintenance: for me that means still logging my food, weighing daily and keeping track of my activity level. And failure can be be a learning experience, I know I've certainly learned from my regain and from the ups and downs of getting back into weight loss mode