Dog owners! Help!
How do you discipline your dog?
There's a huge back story to this, feel free to pm me if you're curious. The crux of the matter is I'm looking to other owners how to handle a dog who just won't behave! If you're a Caeser follower, I have apparently by default become the "alpha" or whatever he calls them. Basically, when the dog DOES listen, he listens to me. But those times are few and far between! He knows basic commands, although doesn't follow them most of the time, and he's crate trained.
With that in mind, do you send him to his crate when he's done something bad, for a quick time out? If you don't CATCH him doing something, can you still punish? What has worked for you all?
He's a labrodoodle mix. Neutered and all that fun stuff.
There's a huge back story to this, feel free to pm me if you're curious. The crux of the matter is I'm looking to other owners how to handle a dog who just won't behave! If you're a Caeser follower, I have apparently by default become the "alpha" or whatever he calls them. Basically, when the dog DOES listen, he listens to me. But those times are few and far between! He knows basic commands, although doesn't follow them most of the time, and he's crate trained.
With that in mind, do you send him to his crate when he's done something bad, for a quick time out? If you don't CATCH him doing something, can you still punish? What has worked for you all?
He's a labrodoodle mix. Neutered and all that fun stuff.
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Replies
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Don't use the crate as a form of punishment or he will come to hate it.
Use distractions from bad behavior. Example if he's jumping on people, interrupt the behavior with a distraction like a ball or favorite toy, maybe even a treat.
Inital meeting of your dog by a stranger its best for the stranger to ignore him as much as possible. Let the dog calm down and eventually come to the stranger. When the dog is calm you can reward him with petting, otherwise ignore him.0 -
What sort of things exactly is the dog doing? You can try the NILF method (nothing in life is free). Basically, he sits before he eats, doesn't run past you in door ways, does not get on your furniture etc. This helps maintain you as the alpha, not the dog. Here are some good ideas on this or you can google it for more info.
http://slodogtraining.com/work-for-it0 -
The crate should not be used as punishment.....its their safe haven.
I have a clicker my dogs hate -- so I use that if they jump.
When they bark, I have a sonic noise thinging on the desk -- and they hate that too so it stops the barking.
Sorry I don't have many answers... maybe obedience class at Pet Smart?0 -
Hello there! My mother has been a professional dog trainer for twenty years, and I have followed in her footsteps for three.
It depends on what he is actually doing wrong as to how to deal with him.
Is he simply not listening?
Is he pulling the washing off the line?
Attacking other dogs?0 -
Don't use the crate as a form of punishment or he will come to hate it.
Use distractions from bad behavior. Example if he's jumping on people, interrupt the behavior with a distraction like a ball or favorite toy, maybe even a treat.
Inital meeting of your dog by a stranger its best for the stranger to ignore him as much as possible. Let the dog calm down and eventually come to the stranger. When the dog is calm you can reward him with petting, otherwise ignore him.
I agree. Also, don't punish a dog for something you didn't catch him doing. Even if he knows better he doesn't have the same cause and effect understanding that humans do. A discipline will only be understood if it happens immediately. You should get and read Cesar's books, I really learned a lot from them.0 -
It takes a lot of patience and consistency. NEVER let him jump up on you if you don't want him to jump on strangers. If he does something wrong, correct the behavior, then after he is doing something correctly for a while, praise the positive behavior. Also, disciplining him if you don't catch him in the act won't help. He won't know what he's being disciplined for.0
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I've been a groomer for over 35 years and have done obedience work for almost as long. This I've learned. A dog's attention span is 15 seconds. He doesn't remember what he's done wrong after that. Example: You come home and find poop on the floor. You rub his nose in it, tell him bad dog, and throw him out. He percieves: You came home, yelled at him for nothing, rubbed his nose in poop and put him outdoors. Maybe he should avoid you. So you have to catch him being good and being bad and reinforce right then and there. The crate should be a safe haven because dogs are den animals. You want to use the crate in a positive way.
I would suggest a training class (again
) That way you will be working with him in a positive manner every day. You can also look at an agility class or something similar that reinforce one on one bonding. Catch him in the act (whatever that may be) and make the punishment fit the crime. I had a counter surfer so I put mouse traps on the edge of the counter under a layer of taped down paper. They snapped and crackled when he reached up on the counter and immediately startled him. The counter is scary equals stay off the counter. Any thing you do may have to be reinforced over and over again. With age he should settle down. Most dogs do. Find ways to channel energy for him: playing ball, taking for a run, Doggy Daycare, etc. He will be less likely to challenge you if he's being well stimulated. Hope this helps some. 0 -
He is honestly just not listening. We broke his jumping habit by gently shrugging him off when he jumped.
He gets over excited when visitors come, but we typically have him go into his crate with a toy or treat before anyone comes over otherwise he will pee everywhere. However with that, he will whine. All day. I'm not joking. If we have people over for 6 hours, he will literally whine for 6 whole hours. He will whine himself hoarse. We've tried ignoring him, doesn't work. We've tried going in and encouraging him to calm down, doesn't work. We've tried food, doesn't work. That's not a HUGE deal because we don't typically have people over.
The main issue we just encountered was my husband put a small end piece of a bone he had in the trash. My husband turned his back, and the dog got it back out. He didn't want him to have it because it was small enough he didn't want him to choke. Husband tells me we can't discipline him because we didn't see it, so he just threw it away again.
I went out to Rite Aid tonight, literally for 10 minutes. We typically crate him when we leave for THIS very reason. I put the baby gate up so the only room he had access to was the room where his crate was and the hallway. My bathroom door was closed. Somehow he ended up getting the door open, and RIPPED everything out of the trash can. EVERYTHING. Toilet paper everywhere, paper everywhere, just all kinds of a mess.
I feel like every time I try to let him have a little bit of leeway, it all goes to poo. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I had no IDEA the dog opened doors. Really? I'm furious. I know he doesn't do it on purpose, and I don't take it out on the dog. But I feel like I have nothing I can do with him. I don't like crating him at night, I don't like crating him when we leave. But every time I try to move forward, he does this. I'm at a loss, and my husband isn't any help.0 -
Hi! I'll tell you what I think...I don't think you should be using his crate for "time out". Also when he is being bad I would def give a no. If he stops doing it give him lots of praise and maybe even a treat. I don't think distracting him from jumping on people is going to solve the problem. You may actually want to take the time to train him not to. The most important thing in my opinion with training is to be VERY CONSISTANT. Otherwise they may never learn. O and if you don't catch him in the act don't punish him for it cause he's not going to remember what he did. But you can take steps to prevent him from being naughty when your not around, like putting the trash where he can't get it or whatever depending on what he does. So tell him no-when he stops-give praise. It takes lots of practice but he'll get it eventually. show him what you say goes. Hope this helps))) 0
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Here's the kicker! My husband has him trained to go to his crate when he's bad. I don't agree with it, but until I figure out another way to handle him, I just want to stay consistent.Don't use the crate as a form of punishment or he will come to hate it.
Use distractions from bad behavior. Example if he's jumping on people, interrupt the behavior with a distraction like a ball or favorite toy, maybe even a treat.
Inital meeting of your dog by a stranger its best for the stranger to ignore him as much as possible. Let the dog calm down and eventually come to the stranger. When the dog is calm you can reward him with petting, otherwise ignore him.
I agree. Also, don't punish a dog for something you didn't catch him doing. Even if he knows better he doesn't have the same cause and effect understanding that humans do. A discipline will only be understood if it happens immediately. You should get and read Cesar's books, I really learned a lot from them.
When I came home and saw the toilet paper everywhere, guess where the dog was. His crate. He knows. That's what is so frustrating. He KNOWS. He's a super smart dog, but it's like he's throwing a big finger to everyone because he can get away with things and he knows it.0 -
Train it to do what you WANT it to do, not so much about what you don't want it to do. Reward it for doing what you want. Repeat, repeat, repeat.0
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All great suggestions. And before anyone says it, I do like the dog. I don't hate him, I don't dislike him. However, he is my husband's dog. My husband also works part time, I work full time plus. Unfortunately getting him in to training is rough, especially since Petsmart said they wouldn't take him until he calmed down. Which I'm still looking into, because I've never heard of them turning people away, and I'm still steaming.
And like I said, I don't agree with the crating, but I want to stay consistent. So until we figure our another way, I don't want to confuse him
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Train it to do what you WANT it to do, not so much about what you don't want it to do. Reward it for doing what you want. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
So how do I convey to him that eating toilet paper is bad? Honestly, I have no idea. I mean, if he's got a 15 second or so attention span, he eats the toilet paper, then stops. Then a little later I notice it...what do I do? Praise him in general? I'm so confused 0 -
If you SEE him eating toliet paper tell him NO!! Like you mean it, let him know you are not happy. And if he stops doing it give him praise. Or you could leave it out, and keep an eye on him, as soon as he even goes near it or sniffs at it tell him NO!! And if he walks away give him a treat or praise or both if you don't see him in the act then don't do anything. 0
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Definitely DO NOT send him to his crate for being bad!!! He will think he is being bad every time you put him in there to leave, go to sleep, etc. Take a spare room and shut him in there as a "time out" instead.0
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We shut the bathroom doors and other rooms not in use when we are not home.Train it to do what you WANT it to do, not so much about what you don't want it to do. Reward it for doing what you want. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
So how do I convey to him that eating toilet paper is bad? Honestly, I have no idea. I mean, if he's got a 15 second or so attention span, he eats the toilet paper, then stops. Then a little later I notice it...what do I do? Praise him in general? I'm so confused0 -
When I took my dog to the Petsmart training, the biggest take-away I got was to be a candy machine at first, when training my dog. Like, literally have a baggie of treats in your pocket and give them out EVERY time the dog does a good deed. And reward each step of the way, too. Like, if you say sit and he sits, give a treat. don't say sit, lie down, roll over, and then finally give a treat at the end. If you're consistent with doing this training every day, the dog will see you and come over and try and earn a treat. The Petsmart trainer said to devote a specific time every day to work on this, like 20 minutes straight, and then relax for the rest of the day.
My biggest suggestion for your situation, however, is to wear your dog out with exercise. Tired dogs can't terrorize the house if they're too tired to move. Can you get up early and drive to the elementary school to run him for half an hour every day? I know this might sounds like a lot since you work 40+, but really, it's a pay now/pay later situation. A little investment now will pay off in a more peaceful home. Or maybe look into a daycare situation, a few times a week, to take your dog to. Once again, this will tire him out, and also make his time in the crate less.
Good luck!!!0 -
My dogs know only practical commands (sit, stay, kennel, go to your room, down and up-up). They sit before they eat, before they go outside, before they come in...it's a control thing... Be consistent. Use lots of praise. Be aware of your tone (I can tell my dog he's a ****ing idiot and he wags his tail if I'm using the "happy mama" voice). Randomly give him "good boys" or treats when he's doing something right...like you see him laying down in his kennel without being told - praise him...he's laying down being good - praise him. Give more attention to positive behaviors. Only correct negative behaviors when you catch them in the act.0
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Is he bored? If he is super smart, as you say, then he may simply be bored a lot of the time.
As others have said, consistency is the key. My dogs know they will never get any food unless they are sitting down and for their one meal of the day, they even know that Molly has to sit on my left and Elvis on my right - because they eat out of separate bowls. When we are out walking, we don't cross roads until they have sat and then been given the cross signal (Molly is deaf and is very good at following hand signals.)
It's all a bit like MFP - developing habits through repeating/recognising/rewarding the right behaviours!
Good luck.0 -
The door was closed, in response to whoever said to close the door. That's a big issue at this point. Now I'm wondering, "Can he open every door? Was this a fluke? Was there something that made it easy for him to open it?" The whole thing honestly baffles me.
I am starting to take him on more walks. We originally did two a day, on for an hour on my lunch break and one when I get home (because again, like I said, it's not like my husband works part time or anything and it's not like the dog is also his responsibility, but whatever! I won't let the dog suffer because my husband is an idiot!). It's really going to be a huge issue if I've got to walk him in the morning as well. I don't get enough sleep as it is, but I am thinking about hiring a dog walker to take him on a mid morning walk, or maybe taking him on the lunch walk, but have her do like a two hour walk, then I can walk him when I get home. I'm not sure yet. I don't know how I'd feel about ACTUALLY having a lunch break.
What I think I'm going to start doing is he can sleep in there, as he seems to like it, but that's only what his crate will be used for. When he wakes up and comes out for the day, we'll close it so he can't go inside otherwise, so when he's bad we can just send him to "his" room.
I need to work on husband training too. Anyone know of anyone offering those classes? LOL!0 -
It must be a poodle thing, we have a poodle x ****zu and he is very very smart but can also be very very naughty and have no ears, so excitable with visitors. this thread is great and i will be paying attention to the advice.0
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I have three large dogs. Jack 13 yr old Dalmation, Prince 5 yr old Belguim Shepherd and Daisy 2 yr old Dalmation. These are all high energy dogs that need plenty of exercise to wear them out. As you can imagine I need to remain top dog to keep control. I have never used a crate so can't comment on that. A bored dog will find it's own entertainment in your absence. I have two stairgates in my house. Even if I leave these gates open they will not go through them without invitation.One at the top of the stairs and one across the lounge door mainly because I don't want dog fur in these areas. Large Dogs need regular walking. It helps keep them calm. Before you go out and leaving your dog on it's own take it for a long walk to tire it out. Before you leave give him something he can chew on for hours and put everything out his reach you don't want him to destroy. It is pointless punishing a dog that has done something naughty in your absence because he has already forgotten it. I fill a plastic bottle with water and when you see your dog doing something you don't want him to do squirt him in the face with it. It usually takes about three lots of that for him to get the message. I have only had to this when they have been puppies.Very important to take control when they are puppies. Take him for a good walk before you have visitors. When the visitors arrive introduce your dog to them and then send him to his bed with something to chew on. If he whines squirt him with water. If he gets out of his bed proving he is calm let him stay. Staying calm means he joins you and plonks himself on the floor and lays down not annoying your visitors. If he becomes excitable send him to his bed. At feeding time everyone sits quietly before they get fed. Do not give him food until he does. I always feed mine after we have eaten never before or during. Top Dog always eats first. Excited Dogs do not listen. You need to wait for him to calm down before he will.0
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The door was closed, in response to whoever said to close the door. That's a big issue at this point. Now I'm wondering, "Can he open every door? Was this a fluke? Was there something that made it easy for him to open it?" The whole thing honestly baffles me.
I am starting to take him on more walks. We originally did two a day, on for an hour on my lunch break and one when I get home (because again, like I said, it's not like my husband works part time or anything and it's not like the dog is also his responsibility, but whatever! I won't let the dog suffer because my husband is an idiot!). It's really going to be a huge issue if I've got to walk him in the morning as well. I don't get enough sleep as it is, but I am thinking about hiring a dog walker to take him on a mid morning walk, or maybe taking him on the lunch walk, but have her do like a two hour walk, then I can walk him when I get home. I'm not sure yet. I don't know how I'd feel about ACTUALLY having a lunch break.
What I think I'm going to start doing is he can sleep in there, as he seems to like it, but that's only what his crate will be used for. When he wakes up and comes out for the day, we'll close it so he can't go inside otherwise, so when he's bad we can just send him to "his" room.
I need to work on husband training too. Anyone know of anyone offering those classes? LOL!
The walks are a good idea and really necessary. A dog walker is an awesome idea. Really consider it. What type of door handles do you have? If they are levered then most dogs can figure out how to push down. If they are knobs, smart dogs can figure out how to work them. Try finding those plastic childproof knob covers that you have to squeeze to open. I have Standards and they are smart and they do test. One was a trash hound. I finally had to get a trash bin that took 2 hands to open to keep my Spike out of it. You just have to think it through and stay smart. Also leave things for him to get into on purpose. Two of my favorites are Kongs and the balls/boxes you fill with treats. You can put part of his morning feeding in the ball. That way he has to work to eat. I stuff kongs with cream cheese or peanut butter and freeze them. It takes them a lot longer to get the treat out.0 -
Poodle + lab = high energy and wicked smart
Chances are your dog is bored and acting out. You need to give him more exercise and also work his brain. Do some obediance with him everyday, even if it's just going over stuff he already knows. Find some "puzzle" toys for dogs, the kind they have to roll around or figure out how to get the treat out of. Stuff like that.
and NILF(nothing in life is free) is VERY good place to start with a dog who is acting out. Reminds him that you're the boss and he doesn't get whatever he wants just because he wants it.
and not to be nitpicky but labradoodle mix is an oxymoron. a labradoodle is already a mutt..0 -
Not sure if this will be helpful or not.. but, I was at a friends house last week and they had something called a "scat mat"-- (i think)-- and it made a vibration type thing if the dog stepped on it. They put it in front of the hallway that went to their bedrooms and then in the entry way of their formal dining area. They had small dogs.. But, after awhile-- you don't even have to turn on the mat.. because the dogs are so used to seeing the mat/area and they don't go in there.0
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Not sure if this will be helpful or not.. but, I was at a friends house last week and they had something called a "scat mat"-- (i think)-- and it made a vibration type thing if the dog stepped on it. They put it in front of the hallway that went to their bedrooms and then in the entry way of their formal dining area. They had small dogs.. But, after awhile-- you don't even have to turn on the mat.. because the dogs are so used to seeing the mat/area and they don't go in there.
The Scat Mat produces a nasty electric shock when stepped on - it is seriously unpleasant and a huge punisher, nothing less. It has no place in dog training and should be binned along with the electric collar, spray collar, water spray, rattle can and so on.
Stair gates are a much fairer way to keep a dog out, they are a clear barrier, and unlike a scat mat the dog generally can't jump over them to get into the area anyway (and tall gates are made for dogs who can jump the normal height ones) - certainly any of my dogs would have the smarts to figure out that they could do that!
Destruction is usually a sign of boredom - get the mind working and the legs moving and it should settle down. Most adult dogs need a good hour or two exercise a day minimum and mental exercise on top. foremant86 is spot on.
Also, stop watching Cesar Milan - the man is a bully, he is dangerous, he knows zip about real dog behaviour (his methodology is based on force; his behavioural knowledge is based on incorrect wolf behaviour which was never the case in wolves, never mind dogs) and most certainly should not be on TV. He is already banned from TV in Italy for his methods; and when he came here to the UK on tour, he had to seriously tone it down as he was informed sharpish that a lot of what he does would contravene our animal welfare laws. Food for thought.
You don't need to be the 'alpha' or the 'pack leader' - dominance theory in its various forms has been debunked for years, both by science generally and also by the very people who invented it in the first place! Think of yourself more as the person who controls his food
and his mentor, teacher, guide, rather than his boss. A benevolent, teaching relationship will get you much further.
You need to show the dog that if he does as he asks he will be rewarded (use whatever he finds rewarding, food works brilliantly for most dogs; more tasty things for harder behaviours such as recalls); if he doesn't, he'll either be ignored for something minor or given a time-out or similar for something that can't be ignored (such as being destructive). The crate is useful for when you can't supervise him and guide him.
If he doesn't follow the commands most of the time, then he doesn't know them - you need to train more. Get him into a good class (avoid ones that use choke chains, lead corrections etc), reinforce him when he does them and set aside specific training sessions inbetween classes to remind him - dog training is no different to learning any skill, both for people and dogs; if it isn't kept uup, the skill gets rusty and can be lost altogether, both for the dog and the owner.0 -
And not to get nitpicky, but he's classified as a "designer dog". Both of his parents were pure bred with papers. I just go by what he's classified as. Thanks for the input though.Poodle + lab = high energy and wicked smart
Chances are your dog is bored and acting out. You need to give him more exercise and also work his brain. Do some obediance with him everyday, even if it's just going over stuff he already knows. Find some "puzzle" toys for dogs, the kind they have to roll around or figure out how to get the treat out of. Stuff like that.
and NILF(nothing in life is free) is VERY good place to start with a dog who is acting out. Reminds him that you're the boss and he doesn't get whatever he wants just because he wants it.
and not to be nitpicky but labradoodle mix is an oxymoron. a labradoodle is already a mutt..
I think we are going to go with the walking plan, and get him more toys that stimulate his mind so he doesn't get bored as easily. We'll see!0 -
Haha lab mix. I have a lab/basset hound. A known smart dog with a known dumb dog. Try that for training. Repetition after repetition. It is really the best method. You have to be consistent in your punishment.
I have found this dude to be very helpful. I have used his dog walking technique and it really does great! Seriously...a lot of great help. Watch them all!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/eletendre1
*Edit* Your dog may not have this problem, but it is the first one and thought it might be helpful.0 -
Just to restress something. You can only punish your dog if you catch him/her red-pawed. Dogs live in the moment, for the moment. He does a poo on the carpet while you're out. You come home, and as he comes to you all happy you notice the poo, and scold him. He thinks that coming to greet you happily is a bad thing, as he got punished for it.
There have been times, especially when my dog was a puppy he'd really wind me up, and the only way he could avoid punishment was to come to me when i called. The WORST thing you can do is punish your dog when he comes when called. If you think he needs some chastisement make sure you go to him, not call him to you.
Also, the clicker is great in training!0 -
Crates should NEVER be used as punishment.
Dogs have a 2 second rule. They are only aware of what they've done for 2 seconds after they've done it. So you only have 2 seconds to praise or punish. After that, they do not understand why they are being yelled at or given a treat.
To beat boredom, get a puzzle ball for treats/food. Petsmart, Petco, all have them. It will keep him busy for a long time and it makes them tired because they think with their brain and that tires them out more than physical stuff.0
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