Hi insulin & low calories

It doesn’t matter how many meals you eat, what time of day, or what your food preferences are. If you eat less calories than your daily requirement you will lose weight. Great question!

Sure, you can eat all the refined carbs and sugary food you want that keep the pancreas busy all day long but if your in a caloric deficit you'll lose weight. Not the best strategy and will have quite a few negative consequences that will make it difficult to maintain that strategy.

Not the best strategy and will have quite a few negative consequences that will make it difficult to maintain that strategy.

The best strategy for each individual is the one that works for that individual.

You spent years (perhaps) trying to lose weight eating "normal", hyperpalatable, and SAD food.

I spent years getting hand outs from doctors urging me to have a glass of orange juice and wholemeal toast in the morning and then starting more and more after Y2K getting hand outs about the low carb and keto meal plans I should follow to lose weight and control blood sugar levels.

You "clicked" onto and achieved increased health by eating keto (or lower carb) and giving up hyperpalatable foods.

I clicked onto increasing my veggies, fruits, and proteins and reducing "sub par and wasted calories" while maintaining or increasing my candy and chocolate allotment. I have to admit to also decreasing potato chips and nachos and increasing some types of popcorn.

And I have to admit that bags of candy in the house have not always led to optimal decision making. Then again... still kicking around in year 9 or 10 of normal weight from a start point of class iii obesity. Then again still in better health in terms of blood work than I was before losing ~125lbs (pretty much problem free blood work)

The one thing in common is that we both made adjustments that reduced our calories and forced our caloric balance to tilt the way we wanted in to

Our strategy to achieve the adjustments differs.

Our strategy to make it easy enough to continue to adjust differs.

Arguments about optimal strategy lose out to lack of long term adherence and lack of willingness to resume adherence after derailments.

The perfectly optimal strategy you fail to implement is not optimal for you.

I think that knowing your true goals can help you make better decisions.

There truly are people out there who are not 100% clear how this works

Thinking that magical food combinations achieve magical results is not the same as realizing that the magical food combinations work to produce magical results because--and only because—and not only because but also only IF--they help one control their long term week over week caloric balance.

The same applies to eating breakfast, fasting 8, 10, 12, or 999.9 hours, not eating or eating after 5, 6 ,7 ,or 8pm, eating bigger lunches and smaller dinners, eating before or after exercise (and what), etc, etc,etc

The strategies and tactics one can employ are many. But the goal, if you're trying to lose weight , is not to be in ketosis or activate your scavenger cells.

Your goal is to create an appropriate caloric balance over a sufficient time period.

Regardless of whether your pancreas is busy or taking a vacation.

I suspect there's no point discussing anything where science is involved, if we can't see any value in something as simple as having chronically elevated blood sugar all day long and I'll just say that counting calories is pretty much the same as people taking GLP-1's for weight loss, they both address the symptoms and not the root causes.

Thanks for sharing… here’s what I’ve found:

• You cannot gain fat in a sustained calorie deficit, regardless of insulin levels. Multiple controlled studies have shown this.
• Energy balance (calories in vs. calories out) is still the foundation of weight gain/loss.
• CIM tends to overstate insulin’s role, ignoring factors like total energy intake, physical activity, muscle mass, and individual variation.

The Carbohydrate Insulin Model is useful for understanding one layer of fat gain, especially in people with metabolic dysfunction, but it’s not a complete explanation.

Fat gain in a calorie deficit does not occur under normal metabolic laws. If fat is increasing, there is either:

• No real deficit, or
• A temporary physiological factor (like inflammation, fluid retention, etc.) that’s masking fat loss.
  

I actually agree that chronically elevated blood sugar isn’t ideal. I don’t think anyone does. And yes, managing symptoms without addressing root causes isn’t a complete solution. But I think we might be defining “root cause” differently.

From a physiological standpoint, the root cause of fat gain still comes down to a chronic energy surplus. That surplus can contribute to elevated blood sugar, insulin resistance, inflammation, etc. In that context, calorie balance isn’t just symptom management, it’s a foundational mechanism. It’s not the only piece of the puzzle, but it’s a core one.

GLP-1s and calorie tracking both reduce that energy surplus, through different methods, we both know that. If someone’s environment or biology is creating an imbalance, either approach can be useful. But neither works long term without deeper lifestyle changes, so in that sense, I completely agree that root cause work matters.

Just to clarify, no one here is dismissing the value of blood sugar regulation. But high frequency eating doesn’t automatically equal high blood sugar, especially when the meals are balanced and the person is metabolically healthy and active (like my Italian vegan photographer who eats carbs every 2 hours). The context matters.

Yes "balanced" meals even when eaten frequently, and if a person is "metabolically healthy" and is also active doesn't automatically mean chronically elevated blood sugar, and I never said it did.

Too add: About 15% of people in the US that have diabetes are not overweight and it's about 25% of the people in India that have diabetes that are not overweight and many athletes are diabetic as well, basically not being overweight doesn't automatically mean someone is healthy, not by any stretch of the imagination.

From a physiological standpoint, the root cause of fat gain still comes down to a chronic energy surplus.

What is the cause of chronic energy surplus?

Insulin is a hormone that stores fat, that part is true, but it’s a necessary hormone. It’s easy for people to hear “insulin = fat storage” and jump to “insulin causes weight gain.” But what’s missing is the full picture here- insulin stores energy, but it doesn’t create energy out of nowhere. You can’t store fat if there’s no excess calories to store, meaning you need to be in a calorie surplus for fat gain to happen, insulin or not. Stay in a calorie deficit, and you will lose weight. This is the more thorough (complicated) response I didn’t provide earlier.

The first study you quoted didn't compare baseline insulin levels between the groups to see if those with higher insulin levels responded differently to CCR versus IF.

The second study didn't compare maco nutrient composition to see if that was a predictor of weight regain. They may have had good insulin sensitivity but had insulin spiking food intake and that could have been a better predictor of weight gain. I dont have access to the full study but they could have relied on self reported calorie intake after in the 12/24 month to follow-up period which is notoriously unreliable.

I think it is generally accepted that CICO improves insulin levels. I would need to look at the third study in more detail to see if they accounted for macronutrient composition though. Often in the intervention group they give nutritional counseling which have have confounded the findings.

Again the 4th and 5th references may not have accounted for macro nutrient composition.

Fwiw I think CICO is the foundation of weight loss but finding a way to keep insulin levels lower aids in longer term adherence in the weight loss phase and maintenance phase.

OP you could do your own self experimentation to see what works for you. I think you will find that everyone who is successful in losing and maintaining has done so through a process of self learning what pattern of eating, exercise, and macro/micro nutrients works for them long term. CICO while eating a diet that keeps insulin high may work for you long term but may not work for others. Stay curious and see what works for you.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Here’s the gist of what I’m seeing…

1. You’re implying that insulin spikes from carbs may cause weight regain even in a calorie deficit.
   This isn’t supported by controlled evidence. Numerous metabolic ward studies, where calories are tightly controlled, show no meaningful difference in fat loss when comparing high-carb vs. low-carb diets with equal calories, even in insulin-resistant individuals.
2. You suggest that macronutrient composition (insulin spiking carbs) might be the real driver of weight gain, not calories.
   That’s a core claim of the carbohydrate-insulin model (CIM), and it’s been repeatedly tested and not supported when calories are matched. The most recent studies (including by Kevin Hall and others) directly disprove that insulin alone drives more fat storage in a hypercaloric environment compared to other diets.
3. You don’t acknowledge that energy balance still works, even with insulin resistance.
   That’s misleading. Weight loss can improve insulin sensitivity, regardless of the diet used, so CICO still works, even if insulin resistance is present.

I agree with some of your methodological points (like needing more nuanced studies), but I disagree with the implication that insulin or macros override calories. The best evidence we have, including randomized controlled trials and metabolic ward studies, consistently supports that…

You cannot gain fat in a calorie deficit, no matter your insulin levels.

That’s the crux. Insulin may affect (for some people) how hungry you are, how easily you stick to a diet, or how your body partitions nutrients, but not whether you lose or gain fat when calories are controlled.

Fwiw I think CICO is the foundation of weight loss but finding a way to keep insulin levels lower aids in longer term adherence in the weight loss phase and maintenance phase.

That’s a fair take, and I agree with the general balance of it.

CICO is the mechanism, but again, managing insulin can support adherence for some people, especially if they find lower-carb meals keep them fuller or reduce cravings (I’m the opposite). The key is recognizing that insulin management isn’t required for fat loss. It can be a useful tool for appetite and habit control for some people, particularly for those who are insulin resistant or struggle with blood sugar swings. But, then again, a balanced diet does the same thing.

I mentioned this earlier, but insulin in many ways, has become a scapegoat for people trying to oversimplify how hunger and fat gain work. The real drivers of overeating are much more complex- behavior, environment, reward systems, and habit loops, not a single hormone. But if keeping your insulin low helps you with satiation, then that’s a great tool for you and I wish you much success.

I never said insulin causes weight gain and it doesn't, don't know where you got that idea from what I said.

I agree with you, it is complex. Yes people love food and some people and some food more than others and behavior, reward systems and habit loops have synergistic characteristics that can and do work in tandem where a reward response, (dopamine) can drive behavior and create a feed back loops, this could be described as addictive behavior. Also the hormones involved are a little more than one probably around 6 or 7.