Slow and steady
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@nossmf Congrats on the progress. Your arms especially look huge. And the measured size change is huge too. What have you been doing to train them? I assume you've been doing more volume there compared to other parts?
That 20% bf estimate looks a little optimistic to me. Just a little bit, mind.0 -
An old article I read by a professional bodybuilder years ago said, "If you have energy to work your arms, you have the energy to do more chest/back work." As a result, I only do 3 sets of arms each upper body day.
But then a different pro I read talked about how he did every rep of every set for 10-30 second negatives. I don't go to that extreme, but for those 3x10 arm sets, each rep is done for 3-5 second negatives, really build up the time under tension.
And I was hoping the 20% was ok, but phooey. You're thinking more like 22%? From images I can find online, it's definitely not 25%.0 -
I don't do arms on upper day. As you say, I save the energy and focus for compounds like barbell row, db press, etc. I do throw in a few extra Myo-reps style arms sets on leg day though. After legs, I'll do a starter set of 10 for arms, then 30 secs after each set finishes I'm starting the next set, rinse repeat until 5 reps is failure. I'll do that with ez-bar curl, then with the same bar do a JM press and immediately super-set with close grip press. As before, 30 secs rest until 5 reps.
I'm no laser eyes expert, so take it with a grain of salt, just going off when I see the likes of Coach Greg measuring people with calipers, and other sources, yeah I'd have guessed you were 20%-22%.0 -
Well, it finally happened...I reached the limit of how much my pants would fit my thighs. The other day I bent down to pick something up, and RIP, popped a seam. While I want to continue to gain upper body muscle to keep reaching for that 315 bench, I draw the line at buying BIGGER pants. That plus the fact my BF has been inching up (see last few posts above), and I think it's time to transition to a slow cut, see if I can't keep the muscle I've gained this past year and a half while losing the fat around it.
For the next two weeks I'll switch my calorie target from "gain .5lb" to "maintain" before I switch to "lose .5lb". Looks like it's goodbye to desserts for a while, so I can continue with the rest of my eating regimen the same.2 -
3 weeks update: I did my two weeks at maintain, and this past week was starting the slow loss. Wow, what a difference, to go from 2500 calories per day (slow gain) to 2000 per day (slow loss). After a year and a half of never having to deny hunger sensations, I'm back to living with them again. Not extreme, totally endurable since I'm eating proper nutrition, but the body realizes there's a difference from this time last month and is telling me all about it, lol.
I'm thinking I'll keep this slow loss phase going until the start of November, then switch back to slow gain in time for the holiday season. Something to look forward to, followed by something to look forward to!2 -
At long last, the cut has come to a merciful end! Over the last 15 weeks I dropped a fair bit of weight, so I took some measurements to compare against what I had listed last, along with progress pics, to see if the cut was worth it or not.
Wt: 202.6 --> 191.6, loss of 11#
Waist: 34.5 --> 33, loss of 1.5in
Chest: 42.5 --> 42.5 (no change)
Biceps: 17.5 --> 17.5 (no change)
Quads: 25 --> 24, loss of 1in
Nobody is going to confuse me with a 6-pack model, but I think this shows I was able to preserve the muscle while slimming down around my fat-accumulators (waist, thighs). Combined with the fact my weights are still just as heavy as they were, meaning I didn't lose strength, and I'm quite happy with the results.
Am just a tad disappointed the cuts weren't just a tad deeper, so now I'm thinking about rethinking my next steps: I was going to go to bulk for 3 months before going cut again in March, but now I may simply relax the cut to allow enjoying the next 6 weeks without actually trying to bulk, and resume the next cut with the turn of the New Year. The temptation to bulk up is strong, though...maybe I need to stop hanging out in the "Dad Bod" thread and seeing how other dudes look, lol.3 -
That sounds like a great accomplishment to me, @nossmf . . . and on the "slow and steady" patient track that I think usually best not only for weight management, but also fitness improvement. Please understand that I'm saying this with the most appropriate, granny-esque friendly intentions: You're looking good!2
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That's a good result. As you probably know, it's easier to keep strength up than muscle during a deficit, and your rate of loss of nearly 1 pound per week is ideal for maintaining as much muscle as possible while still getting reasonable fat loss.
I hope you don't mind me posting some input, but since you've put it out there here goes. JMO, you don't need to bulk. You've got a lot of muscle, but also quite a lot of fat hiding it. It sounds like you're in agreement with the following: try to stay around maintenance through to early next year while not worrying about taking advantage of various treats, parties, meals out, etc. during the holiday season, then maybe drop another 10 pounds or so and re-evaluate then.1 -
Yep, likely to try to lose the fat hiding what I got. Dude at my gym (haven't seen him in a while) used to look like he weighed a good 30-40# more than he did, just because he looked ripped, but he in fact weighed less than me. I like the idea of working towards that goal.
Main reason I was contemplating bulking was simply because I liked the eating! lol1 -
Yep, likely to try to lose the fat hiding what I got. Dude at my gym (haven't seen him in a while) used to look like he weighed a good 30-40# more than he did, just because he looked ripped, but he in fact weighed less than me. I like the idea of working towards that goal.
Main reason I was contemplating bulking was simply because I liked the eating! lol
Heh. Appearance isn't everything (to some of us, for sure me, dunno about you), and health ought to matter to all (but you're not holding that much fat, IMO).
But for sure eating some extra-special treat foods now and then is important to some of us (including me), and the holidays do present some great opportunities.
Balance is important. Choosing the holiday season to be bulking season (or at least maintenance) makes sense to me in that context.
YMMV, and so may Retro's.
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Buddy at the office asked me if I'd been losing weight, to which I responded I had, already lost almost two inches off my waist. He said he asked because he noted the difference in my neck and jaw. Never thought to measure my neck (and no idea how to measure the jaw).1
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Face - pictures.2
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Lol, thought at first you were requesting face pictures, but you were suggesting taking facial comparison photos. Hmm...2
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That sounds like a great accomplishment to me, @nossmf . . . and on the "slow and steady" patient track that I think usually best not only for weight management, but also fitness improvement. Please understand that I'm saying this with the most appropriate, granny-esque friendly intentions: You're looking good!
Ditto from me! You dropped 11 pounds and didn't lose an ounce of muscle with that. Excellent.2 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »Sounds like a good plan.
In case you don't know, you don't need to preload the creatine. After 28 days, you'll have the same amount in your system either way.
I didn’t know. 🤷🏼♀️
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Status Update:
Since my last post, I decided to follow the advice of @Retroguy2000 and keep losing for a while longer. He suggested another 10lbs should be a good goal; as of this writing, I dropped 12.4, most of it fat with only minimal drop in muscle.
(I did gain a little weight over the holiday season, topping out at 196.7 at 21.5% BF according to gym staff measurements; today was 180.2 at 15.4% BF, a drop of 16.5lbs with 14.5lbs of that fat, a ratio of 88% of the loss being fat.)
I tried taking a progress photo, but the one I got looks actually worse than the last one posted and does not do my progress justice, as the lighting still doesn't let shadows drop right. I promise that I look a LOT better in the bathroom mirror (at least when a camera isn't involved, lol)!
For the next few months I'm taking a break from trying to lose weight and simply look to maintain where I'm at. I've been wearing my son's skinny jeans he no longer wanted, which is great, but my arms are noticeably smaller in my sleeves, which is not great. I would love to start a bulking phase again, but the common lifting wisdom is don't start to bulk until you're down to 12% BF or lower, meaning I'll need to still lose more before shifting gears into bulk mode. Sigh…
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Do you need to lose more first? If you're happy where you're at, why not lean bulk, with 100-200 surplus for monthly weight gain of 1-2 pounds with very little fat gain?
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Huh…you're the one who told me I needed to lose more last time, kinda assumed you'd still be on that bandwagon.
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Well, you didn't share a pic.
I'm in the Coach Greg camp of maingain from a reasonable bf, which I'd say 15% is very reasonable and healthy, i.e. maintain same body fat % with a low calorie surplus for small weight gain mostly muscle. Especially at your training age, muscle gains will likely be slow so no need for a dirty bulk at any time for you imo. If you can gain a few pounds of weight in the coming months that is mostly muscle and still stay around 15% bf, that would be great.
And at the end of the day, better to have a small surplus for muscle building than zero surplus.
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This photo, to me, looks almost identical to the one from six months ago (despite being 12lbs lighter), even though standing at my bathroom sink the mirror tells a different story. (Maybe I should take a photo there instead…)
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Those before and after pics are noticeably different. You're clearly leaner in the upper chest, shoulders and traps area, and your waist is probably at least 1" down.
I'm still not sure you need to be doing large cuts and bulks though. At your training age and I assume also real age, and I assume all natural, muscle gains will be slow so you don't need large surpluses. And tbh, that unnecessary bulking probably contributed to your starting point last summer being 20.4 pounds above where you're at now, and ofc it has taken a fair amount of time and effort to cut that. You could instead maintain close to this bf % with a small calorie surplus while gaining muscle, thus also avoiding the need for large cuts. What do you think?
And btw, those arms are still huge, wow.
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Real age: 48
Training age: 16
All natural nutrition (plus creatine)I fully agree on not doing large bulks and cuts anymore. (I do feel a tad undersized compared to other male lifters at my gym now compared to before, but I'll pass on the bulk if it means I have to do a large, prolonged cut again!) Was thinking more along the lines of 5lbs up (at least 50% muscle), 5lbs down (at least 80% fat), repeat, see if I can't slowly migrate to looking more muscular over time.
Still resisting admitting I'm getting older in the gym, lol. I've already had to make multiple age-related concessions: more warmup sets, max weight 5rm not 1rm (bye-bye, 315 bench dream), cardio and weights on separate days.
BTW, the mathematician in me figured out that if I'm able to keep the same fat loss % going as before, I could hit the 12% BF mark if I dropped 10 more pounds (down to 170). That would be real close to my weight when I graduated college and joined the military. There's a certain appeal to that idea, offset by the realization I'd have to start another cut lol. (I'm 3 weeks into a maintenance phase, and my weight is exactly the same now as it was 3 weeks ago. Will continue for at least another week before making a decision.)
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