Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver causes

moniquelhoward
moniquelhoward Posts: 2 Member

I was diagnosed last year and the specialist was certain that I drank alcohol. Even my last appointment when I was able to reverse my condition, he told me out of all the things that I do, stop drinking alcohol. Well, I believe it's the grams and grams of sugar that they put in our food and drinks, especially high fructose corn syrup. I just don't believe that there is enough information shared about the dangers of high fructose corn syrup. Just my opinion.

Replies

  • routheles1
    routheles1 Posts: 2 Member

    Me too! My mom died of non-alcoholic cirrhosis 2 years ago today, and now my doctor has ordered a liver ct scan because my cholesterol levels keep rising, despite my efforts to eat healthy and exercise. Nothing is making a dent. This is scary.

  • yakkystuff
    yakkystuff Posts: 1,881 Member
    edited July 31

    It IS scary!

    @moniquelhoward - good on you for reversing!

    @routheles1 - did they suggest any changes to food? Change meds?

  • SafariGalNYC
    SafariGalNYC Posts: 2,383 Member
    edited August 2

    there are actually many NIH studies regarding corn syrup and fatty liver. A study suggested that consuming high amounts of fructose may promote non-alcoholic fatty liver disease by damaging the intestinal barrier.

    NIH:

    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-high-fructose-intake-may-trigger-fatty-liver-disease


    Endocrine Society:

    https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2022/people-who-consume-too-much-high-fructose-corn-syrup-could-be-at-risk-for-nafld


    NIH/ National Institute of Diabetes
    https://www.niddk.nih.gov/news/archive/2020/how-high-fructose-intake-trigger-fatty-liver-disease


    Harvard Health Study:

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/abundance-of-fructose-not-good-for-the-liver-heart#:~:text=From%20fructose%20to%20fat,who%20drink%20too%20much%20alcohol.


    it’s really not a debate that it’s not ideal for optimal liver health.

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,548 Member

    Common factors that I know of - weight, lack of exercise, smoking, high fat intake.

    However there is also likely genetic factor - as with many things, you can only control modifiable factors.

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,782 Member
    edited August 14

    Fructose contributes to both liver fat and body fat, but the liver itself is the first to suffer, but to be clear, it's also excess calories and fructose intake together, and because the liver is the primary site of fructose metabolism where it converts that fructose into fatty acids and bears the brunt of the biochemical consequences that contribute to NAFLD.

    Also and as it relates to our intestinal barrier from the formation of NAFLD from that excess fructose it produces inflammatory signals and altered bile acids that can disrupt the gut microbiota and weaken the intestinal barrier and basically causes small breaches in the lining and contributes to increased intestinal permeability, which contribute to endotoxins from our gut bacteria (microbiome) to enter the bloodstream and reach the liver, triggering further inflammation and damage and if nothing is done then the cycle repeats itself and escalates, not a good thing. Most of this bad stuff is really associated with a poor diet, mostly high in processed and UPF and when consumed in excess, but NAFLD can still take place in the absence of excess calories as well, just not to that extent or as quick, but it does happen. Get your CRP levels checked if your concerned and there's a few other tests as well like ferritin, ESR, NLR and Interleukin-6 (IL-6) and TNF-alpha, which are probably added costs.

  • business13kt
    business13kt Posts: 20 Member

    My liver enzymes have been high for two years I have been unable to drink alcohol for year's because of a recurring ulcer and hiatal hernia. I asked the dr if it could be from taking Tylenol because I'm allergic to NSAIDs he said no but gave me no other answers. My nephew had elevated enzymes and was diagnosed with fatty liver disease with no reason such as drinking alcohol his dr told him it was from the Covid shot and there's quite a few cases… I'm wondering now if that's the case with myself as well.

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 2,136 Member

    Find a different doctor. Fatty liver without alcohol consumption is "non alcoholic steatohepatitis" (non alcoholic fatty liver disease. It's usually related to obesity and overeating.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 37,969 Community Helper

    Yes, and the idea that it's from the Covid vaccine doesn't appear to align with medical consensus. Almost the reverse, in fact.

    There is reportedly a very rare side effect of the vaccine on the liver: In about 0.038% of a large (450,000-ish person) sample, there was an occurance of temporary hepatitis, i.e., liver inflammation. Most of those cases resolved with treatment, without long-term consequences.

    In contrast, in people who already have liver conditions, Covid infection is more likely to worsen the condition, and infection can cause liver damage in people with no previous indication of liver disease. In addition, liver disease is one of the pre-existing conditions that tends to increase severity of Covid infections, including increasing mortality rates from Covid.

    There is risk with the vaccine, but the risks of the infection are worse.

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,548 Member

    My nephew had elevated enzymes and was diagnosed with fatty liver disease with no reason such as drinking alcohol his dr told him it was from the Covid shot and there's quite a few cases… I'm wondering now if that's the case with myself as well.

    Where did you get the information that there are quite a few cases caused by Covid shot??

    If a Dr told your nephew that, without any evidence t o support such a sweeping statement, then that sounds very poor medical advice - o n the other hand unless yo u were actually i n the appt and heard the doctor say it - it may not have been exactly what was said.

    Non alcoholic fatty liver disease has been around long before covid or covid vaccines - highly likely the cause is a combination of one or more of smoking, lack of excercise, weight, diet, genetics.

  • rms62003
    rms62003 Posts: 216 Member

    NAFLD is mostly from lifestyle and weight, but not totally. It is an insulin issue - high insulin levels affecting the liver. High insulin levels increase triglycerides, which then can lead to fatty liver disease. This is why things like high fructose corn syrup can contribute - these spike your insulin levels.

    Also, why some people seem to get it and others don't. Insulin sensitivity and insulin levels is hereditary - diabetes tends to run in families.

    So, better diet - less simple carbohydrates (especially glucose, fructose syrups, etc), increased fiber (to slow sugar absorptions) and whole foods will help fatty liver disease.

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,782 Member

    I agree with most of what you said but don't agree with the hereditary hypothesis/theory aspect. All humans have a predisposition but we don inherit the disease. For example the prevalence of diabetes in the 1930's and 40's was around 0.5% of the adult population in the US, with a larger percentage living rural. Today diabetes in the same population is about 11.5%.

    Type 1 Diabetes has a genetic component, but it’s also autoimmune. Even with a family history, it’s relatively rare unless specific genes are triggered by environmental factors.

    Type 2 diabetes in 1980 in the US according to the CDC effected just under 6 million or about 2% of the population, today it's 53 million which is an increase of 783% and the explosion in cases is overwhelmingly driven by environmental and lifestyle changes, not genetics. Our predisposition for diabetes was there in 1980—but the triggers weren’t nearly as widespread.

    I believe if someone holds some aptitude for critical thinking I suspect it should be quite obvious why this change has occurred and personally I'm not going to blame my grandparents or parents for my prediabetes but my change in those environmental and lifestyle that have put my prediabetes into remission for the last dozen years. imo of course. Cheers.

    TLDR: diabetes 2 in 1980 was rare, so don't blame your grandparents.

  • rms62003
    rms62003 Posts: 216 Member

    Agreed, the predisposition is hereditary, and that is the propensity to insulin resistance. You can have two people with the same weight and diet, and one of them is diabetic - that is the one with the hereditary factors.

    Same thing with NAFLD - two people with same/similar life styles and only one of them has the disorder. Our genetics play a huge role.

    That being said, modifying our lifestyle can help with mitigating this predisposition.

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,782 Member
    edited September 24

    Well, almost all humans have a predisposition to an insulin reaction that is then elevated by environmental factors to meet the criteria which represents insulin resistance and prediabetes. There’s compelling paleoanthropological and evolutionary evidence suggesting that humans have a built-in predisposition for insulin resistance and fat storage, basically the bodies evolutionary safeguard to starvation which under modern conditions can manifest as diabetes, so yeah there is a genetic marker involved.

    Also hyperinsulinemia without high blood sugar levels (aka Hidden Insulin Resistance) and doesn't register in a blood test at all represents over 40% of the US population according to a study by using NHANES data and right now almost 70% of the population show signs of insulin resistance, prediabetes, diabetes, hyperinsulinemia, or impaired glucose metabolism. Most of the US population are metabolically dysfunctional which will include elevated triglycerides, low HDL, high blood pressure and central obesity, aka visceral fat and it's pretty obvious when we look at videos of regular populations during the 50's and 60's in US cities which are available all over the internet and you tube.

    2 people consuming the same diet and being the same weight is complicated but metabolic health is influenced far more than just calories and body size. we just can't control humans for any length a time to ensure every single aspect of their lives and I mean every single aspect of their lives is "exactly" the same so a comparison can actually be done, and why we need to rely on more of the hard sciences, which is exactly what we were talking about for the most part, so thanks for that. cheers.

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 2,136 Member

    True. Type 2 diabetes used to be almost unheard of in adolescents. Nowadays we're seeing it more and more. Is there a genetic tendency? Sure. But lifestyle is definitely a major factor.