Overdoing protein

Like many other people, I have Stage 3 Chronic Kidney Disease. I'm 62 and see a registered dietitian. My recommended protein daily allowance is 65g. You can overdo protein and overwork your kidneys. Stage 3 CKD is not uncommon and is commonly not diagnosed because it involves blood work, not symptoms. I am cautious with fitness/food apps that suggest protein considerably over the USRDA of 50g per day for most US adults. Pushing protein is really big in dieting now, but too much is too much. Before leaping into a high-protein food program, make sure your kidneys can handle it.

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  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 2,157 Member

    I sympathize with your own situation, but from everything I've seen from many reputable sources there is no harm in going far over the USRDA (which is frankly very low, especially if you are lifting), unless you already have an existing kidney issue.

    This guy has a PhD in nutritional sciences and talks about this kind of stuff. Higher protein actually leads to lower risk of developing CKD, plus all the other benefits it brings.

  • lionessroar1
    lionessroar1 Posts: 16 Member

    That was my comment: a lot of people are in Stage 3 and don't even know it. I had no idea. As they always say, especially for older people (as I said, I'm 62), check with your doctor before beginning a diet program or workout plan. I've gotten good cautions from trusted sources who know me, so I go with that. 😎🍴🤽‍♀️

  • lesdarts180
    lesdarts180 Posts: 3,534 Member

    @lionessroar1 , "high protein" seems to be latest advertising hype. Just another way to sell us ultra processed food if you ask me. Protein bars, protein powders/shakes. I see many people on here aiming for ridiculously high protein figures.

    Manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

    I don't have any kidney problems (as far as I know) but I'm happy with 70 to 80 g per day. I'm a little old lady - 75 years, 152 cm , 50 kg.

  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 2,157 Member
    edited September 29

    You're on a high protein diet though, at 0.7g per pound bw. And are you lifting with progressive overload to build muscle? Those of us who are lifting are taking similar protein as % of bodyweight.

    I agree about the marketing though. It's like the new "low fat", which ofc can mean "high sugar".

    I think ultra processed food is more about calorie dense foods which are usually low protein.

  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,760 Member

    There is really no conflict between @lionessroar1 and @Retroguy2000: If you have healthy (young) kidneys, you can go high-protein (and ultra-low-carb) if you want. I did it in my 30s when I wanted to lift weights and get ripped. It helps!

    At 60+, I feel like I need my fiber and carbs and I don't digest very high protein meals as well (as in, I won't eat a 16oz portion of fish, chicken, or meat). And, some keto-friendly meals are fatty, like ribs. I have to be careful not to have too much or I've gotten sick.

    So basically, I appreciate the original post! If you are seeing related symptoms, get the blood test. If you are positive, be easy on your kidneys. In general, listen to your body. Your meals should leave you feeling good!

  • Robertjones821
    Robertjones821 Posts: 1 Member

    I think protein is good a lot for the body

  • lionessroar1
    lionessroar1 Posts: 16 Member

    I agree. I think the right amount of protein is good, not "the more, the better." Protein is essential. Too much is too much.

  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 2,157 Member

    Based on what science?

    Too much is bad if you have an existing condition. If you don't, then the high protein diets we talk about here (up to about 1g per pound say) are not just OK, but objectively useful and proven by science.

    But this is the second time you've claimed too much is bad without that qualifier. It's misleading.

  • lionessroar1
    lionessroar1 Posts: 16 Member

    The science: I was all about protein until my BUN (a blood test that measures nitrogen, a waste product formed when the body breaks down protein) was a normal, healthy 15 a year ago. It had been stable for years. It more than doubled to 32 a week ago.

    I had figured the more, the better with protein—even though my dietitian had recommended 65g/day. Within a year of increasing my protein to over 100g per day average, my BUN more than doubled. It went over the high normal level. The increase corresponds with my conscious increased protein intake. I exercise an hour a day, strength and cardio as well as tai chi. I figured I was burning the added protein in exercise. But I wasn't; the waste was backing up. That's on me for not following the doctor's advice.

    Again, as with everything, seek individual medical advice and follow it, especially if you're older, radically changing your eating habit, or have any pre-existing condition.

    This is a link to a US Department of Agriculature article with good basic guidelines on who needs what amount of protein: https://tellus.ars.usda.gov/stories/articles/muscle-some-protein-every-day

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 37,976 Community Helper

    Two very different things:

    • General medical or nutrition advice
    • Personal nutritional advice in context of our individual health history

    This is an example of quite comprehensive, nuanced advice about protein intake for people in 65+ from an international expert study group:

    https://www.jamda.com/article/S1525-8610(13)00326-5/fulltext

    It covers general population recommendations, plus recommendations for a large number of special cases, including disease or disease-risk states that are more probable in aging adults, kidney disease among them.

    Overall, that international expert study group's recommendations suggest to me that universally minimizing or lowballing protein intake is high risk for aging people. For most people, that group's basic recommendation will be well above the generic USDA recommendation of 50g. However, how much protein they recommended varies depending on lifestyle, health history, and health risk factors. Some people should limit protein, because of specific factors. In other cases - common cases - aging adults are getting too little protein for best health outcomes.

    Here's a summary quote from the abstract, though I strongly recommend that older adults read the full paper for nuances that may apply in their individual case:

    To help older people (>65 years) maintain and regain lean body mass and function, the PROT-AGE study group recommends average daily intake at least in the range of 1.0 to 1.2 g protein per kilogram of body weight per day. Both endurance- and resistance-type exercises are recommended at individualized levels that are safe and tolerated, and higher protein intake (ie, ≥1.2 g/kg body weight/d) is advised for those who are exercising and otherwise active. Most older adults who have acute or chronic diseases need even more dietary protein (ie, 1.2–1.5 g/kg body weight/d). Older people with severe kidney disease (ie, estimated GFR <30 mL/min/1.73m2), but who are not on dialysis, are an exception to this rule; these individuals may need to limit protein intake. 

    I also second the OP's comment later in this thread that seeking individual medical advice is important, especially important when aging, and absolutely vital with diet-relevant health conditions in the picture.

    Personally, as a very active person, I do eat relatively high protein, over 100g daily. For me, 100g is about 1.6g/kg. I've eaten protein at that level for around 10 years. Because of my health history in other respects, I have blood tests routinely, including BUN. My PCP has no concerns about my BUN levels up to and including most recent tests in May this year. That's me. That's not necessarily everyone.

    Repeating: Personal recommendations based on individual circumstances are not the same thing as general advice.

    I agree that protein is heavily hyped these days, in some cases over-hyped. It's important to try to sort out hype from solid recommendations, and also to be aware of nuances that may affect us as individuals.

    As an aside, that USDA article linked in a PP also says that most aging adults get too little protein, not too much. Its recommendation is 0.54g per pound per day. For me, that's well over my personalized US DRI of 48 grams daily. Specifically, 0.54g per pound would be about 71g for me.

    (BTW, the USDA link for an individualized DRI for a range of nutrients is here: https://www.nal.usda.gov/human-nutrition-and-food-safety/dri-calculator )

    That USDA article linked in the PP also has some of the least helpful, most misleading comments about plant protein that I've seen lately. (This is a topic about which I'm reasonably knowledgeable. No, I don't think plant protein is the be-all end-all. Far from it. There are definitely issues. That article describes them . . . poorly.) I'm sure the researcher has more detailed knowledge than what's said there and the issue is how they've been selectively quoted by a writer with less knowledge.

  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 15,632 Member

    Individualized medical advice is individualized medical advice.

    It doesn't follow that you got kidney disease BECAUSE you increased your protein.

    In your particular case increasing YOUR protein PROBABLY didn't help you. But that doesn't mean, EVEN IN YOUR CASE, that increased protein CAUSED your kidney disease.

    Or that by NOT eating "extra" protein you would have AVOIDED kidney disease altogether, or even that by not eating extra protein you would have delayed the onset by either one or ten+one months.

    That said… balance is always good and individualized medical advice is even better!

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 2,138 Member

    There does seem to be some evidence that very high protein (over 1 g per pound) can put excess strain on and potentially further damage the kidneys. Particularly for people already experiencing kidney damage. Will it do that to everyone? No. But I do think the world has gone a bit protein crazy...

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  • lionessroar1
    lionessroar1 Posts: 16 Member

    Exactly. I had CKD Stage 3. I was referred to a dietitian in March 2024 to adjust my eating program/food plan. She recommended 65g of protein a day based on my CKD, age, and weight. I exceeded her recommended amount, sometimes doubling it. A year after increasing my protein so much, my blood work showed a doubling of BUN. I was very eager to increase protein and thought, the more, the better, but FOR ME, it was not for the better.

    I am saying that the condition of stage 3 CKD is often undiagnosed. "The prevalence of undiagnosed stage 3 CKD was 95.5% (19 120/20 012 patients) in France, 84.3% (22 557/26 767) in Germany, 77.0% (50 547/65 676) in Italy, 92.1% (83 693/90 902) in Japan, 61.6% (13 845/22 470) in the US ." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37217263/

    Because so many people have it, 61.6% in the US, I put out a caveat on overdoing protein. This isn't just my opinion or my experience. Just be aware and open-minded.

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,782 Member
    edited October 2

    Prioritize foods that are whole and considered unprocessed with people focusing on protein tend to plan meals, read labels, and track intake, behaviors linked to better overall diet quality which generally equate to better overall health including less kidney dysfunction considering the worst possible scenario for increased kidney dysfunction generally describes processed and ultra processed foods that are high in sugar, refined carbs, and seed oils which are the main drivers of CKD. Protein in this context is expensive, not very shelf stable and compared to sugar, flour, and oil, are cheap, shelf stable, and easily flavored and colored and where protein doesn’t offer that same markup potential (PROFIT). Consciously increasing natural proteins can essentially cause an aneurism for the companies that are in it for the money (our money) and wanting to keep you as a life long client.

    TLDR: eat real food including protein and eat them with vigor 😁.

  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 15,432 Member

    I am saying that the condition of stage 3 CKD is often undiagnosed. "The prevalence of undiagnosed stage 3 CKD was … 61.6% (13 845/22 470) in the US ." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37217263/

    Because so many people have it, 61.6% in the US…

    The article cited says that 61% of those tested had stage 3 CKD. It does not logically mean that 61% of the US therefore has stage 3 CKD, as those tested were a subset of Americans chosen for having other symptoms, not a random selection from across all of America.

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,782 Member

    Yeah, stage 3 CKD is a diagnostic blind spot buried under louder and other comorbidities like diabetes, hypertension, and obesity. Apparently 90% of people with CKD didn't know they had it which leaves only 10% that are actually diagnosed and tested. Also roughly 1 in 2 patients with stage 4 CKD are unaware, and 1 in 3 with stage 5 CKD still don’t know.

  • lionessroar1
    lionessroar1 Posts: 16 Member

    Right…. Sorry to be misleading. Here are the numbers of Americans with CKD…almost 10%, and that's diagnosed. "Although the percentages have changed relatively little over time, the growth of the U.S. population means that approximately 31.2 million individuals had CKD in 2017-March 2020, compared with 26.2 million in 2005-2008, an increase of 19.1%." https://usrds-adr.niddk.nih.gov/2022/chronic-kidney-disease/1-ckd-in-the-general-population