So, health really isn't the focus here I take it. Quite disa
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I wasn't being entirel fair to MFP on the whole with this post. I was frustrated by one post in particular. The response to whichvi believe was indicative of unhealthiness being encouraged. No one else seemed to notice or care about someone maintaining 118 pounds, at 5'7, with exercise on lss than 1500 a day . Less than 1500 Calories for maintenance is unheard of for a young individual who exercises. I really shocked me.
My apologies for lashing out at mfp on geneal. That wasn't fair. I will say that this was not an isolated even though...just the first time I was upset enough to respond.0 -
I'm 5'9", 150 and maintaining on 2300 calories a day. Most of my "friends" on maintenance also eat 2000ish calories a day (but I tend to pick friends who eat "normally").0
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My issue is people MAINTAINING low weights on weight loss calorie intakes and attempting to justify it by claiming they are natually thin.
It can happen by working out but eating only what mfp recommends for sedentary. It can happen from just having a low cal target in general. And it just saddens me that they woould rather maintain this unnaturallyblow weight while eating 1200 calories than to just get to a healthy weight for THEIR body...not simply at the lowest end of the bmi chart0 -
My issue is people MAINTAINING low weights on weight loss calorie intakes and attempting to justify it by claiming they are natually thin.
It can happen by working out but eating only what mfp recommends for sedentary. It can happen from just having a low cal target in general. And it just saddens me that they woould rather maintain this unnaturallyblow weight while eating 1200 calories than to just get to a healthy weight for THEIR body...not simply at the lowest end of the bmi chart
A healthy weight for a woman of my height, 5'2.5", (per this BMI chart: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/) is 100-140. My ultimate goal weight is 115-125. That's perfectly in the middle. That, according to the way we understand calories, nutrition, thermodynamics, weight loss, maintenance, etc., will leave me with a healthy caloric net of 1150 to 1250 calories per day. This is well below your arbitrary 1500 value.
Therefore, I think you're wrong.
As a side note: if I reach 115 and find that I continue to lose weight on a 1200 calorie diet, I will increase my net. But if I am able to maintain at that intake level, I intend to maintain it.
I'm curious as to why eating 1500 calories makes more sense than that.0 -
I wasn't being entirel fair to MFP on the whole with this post. I was frustrated by one post in particular. The response to whichvi believe was indicative of unhealthiness being encouraged. No one else seemed to notice or care about someone maintaining 118 pounds, at 5'7, with exercise on lss than 1500 a day . Less than 1500 Calories for maintenance is unheard of for a young individual who exercises. I really shocked me.
My apologies for lashing out at mfp on geneal. That wasn't fair. I will say that this was not an isolated even though...just the first time I was upset enough to respond.
Yeah, your title is totally erroneous now.
Also, you ought to have indicated that you were talking about people who don't eat their exercise calories, too. It's hugely different to have an INTAKE of 1200 calories while burning 600 a day than it is to NET 1200 calories while burning 600 a day.
If you can't tell, the VAST majority of us are here for weight loss AND overall health.
Next time send a PM.0 -
I am sorry, I still don't really get you.
Yes, I understand that in a mathematically, nutritionally ideal world there are a bunch of figures that say what is ideal - but this says nothing about the individual nor the circumstances, nor the reasons for the choices.
Weight trainers (who are resting not training), jockeys (who are resting not training), ballerinas, models, all need to maintain low fat ratios in order to keep with their careers. I acknowledge that it is a a choice - their choice and not my decision to interfere with.
I have a friend who is very underweight. He hates eating food. The act of chewing bores him. No I don't understand but that is simply him. Eating 1500 calories for him some days can be a real achievement.
Using another example, I drink wine. That's not ideal either. But, it is my choice - and I don't care what anyone says I am NOT giving it up.
We all make choices - some are scientifically more easy to explain than others .... but none of us are perfect, and very few of us are on the same path (luckily .... if we were, it would be a very crowded path! ... Cheers!:drinker: )0 -
I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a difficult time believing that you are earnestly worried and concerned for strangers online, who you probably don't know a thing about except their calorie intake/bmi levels.
My guess is you posted this with the intentions of receiving praise for "following the correct path," etc.
I want to add that there is nothing wrong with being proud and trying to educate people, but you will be disappointed if you expect everyone to do things your way.
If we were discussing people who really had problems, I would believe your concern. But you are claiming to be concerned about women who eat 1,400 calories per day and have an 18.5 bmi (which is generally considered healthy)? I do not buy it.0 -
Okay...to clarify, I am referring to people maintaining on less than 1500, not losing on this amount. Exercising on top of that and their BMI is bordering underweight. I can't under any circumstance think of a justification for this. It isn't natural to maintain a super low weight on a weight loss calorie intake. I try to educate...that is my intention but when you have people who have no knowledge of human physiology encouraging the bad behaviors it is difficult to get through to them. It's like group-think, where the unhealthy people feed off one another.
I know BMI isn't perfect but for those on the low eve if the spectrum counting calories to get there it's usually not a naturally low weight. Eating less than what maintenance should be to stay at that wright further shows that it is not your body's ideal weight.
I guess I could be one of those people you are referring to, as I mentioned in one of yesterday's threads that my base maintenance calories were set to 1470. Sorry, but you can't assume that numbers you don't like have anything at all to do with group-think. I'm fully aware that the number is too low - my bathroom scale is telling me that - but it *IS* the number coughed up by MFP's software. Evidently it has something to do with my age, as the software gives me more to eat if I lie to it and tell it I'm 30 years younger than I am. I've already dealt with the problem by manually bumping up my calorie budget by 100 calories and will make further adjustments as necessary.I am not "tearing" anyone down...it is my hope that this thread will create dialogue about what is healthy and therefore educate those who don't know any better but want to do this the healthy way.
I lost more than 50 pounds at no more than a pound per week (except water weight lost at the very beginning), I never hit a plateau, and I ended the process with a higher than predicted caloric need. I'll take that as a strong indication that I did it in the healthy way.0 -
Consider this thread completely DONE. I don't need to be torn down by people either. Next time I will keep my comments and observations to myself.
Whatever you happen to think my intentions are you are probably very very very wrong about that. I spend copious amounts of time helping people who have/do suffer from eating disorders...all online and I've been doing it for 2 years.
So think what you want about me. I was disappointed that people are unaware of the damage they could be doing to their health and receiving encouragement from well meaning people who are just misinformed.
My apologies for making it public. I don't apologize for my views or my approach though; I strongly believe that the human body is much wiser than we are and trying to fit a certain mold when our body's are yelling NO is not going to make us any healthier (thinner maybe, but not healthier).
Again, sorry. i am done here.0 -
I am sorry, I still don't really get you.
Yes, I understand that in a mathematically, nutritionally ideal world there are a bunch of figures that say what is ideal - but this says nothing about the individual nor the circumstances, nor the reasons for the choices.
Weight trainers (who are resting not training), jockeys (who are resting not training), ballerinas, models, all need to maintain low fat ratios in order to keep with their careers. I acknowledge that it is a a choice - their choice and not my decision to interfere with.
I have a friend who is very underweight. He hates eating food. The act of chewing bores him. No I don't understand but that is simply him. Eating 1500 calories for him some days can be a real achievement.
Using another example, I drink wine. That's not ideal either. But, it is my choice - and I don't care what anyone says I am NOT giving it up.
We all make choices - some are scientifically more easy to explain than others .... but none of us are perfect, and very few of us are on the same path (luckily .... if we were, it would be a very crowded path! ... Cheers!:drinker: )
I don't know... I sort of get the OP's point. Obviously, it's not the entire MFP community - there are many of us on here who eat a healthy number of calories (and who discovered the very idea of what a healthy number of calories for an active adult truly means on this very site). But I have noticed a higher percentage of "my goal body fat percentage is 13%" females on here recently, and it is a little frustrating. The poster walker who said the result of the Internet is tons and tons of information, much of it NOT accurate, has a good point. But it can be frustrating to see newbies getting some really unhealthy adivce.
Also, to address one of your specific points (about ballerinas and low body fat), as professional dancer with many friends in major ballet companies - many of the most successful dancers actually eat something like 2500-3000 calories a day. Of course, there are some with eating disorders, and this is a huge problem in the dance community, but eating disorders are much more prevalent among pre-professional students training to be dancers (your 12-18 year olds) than among the actual professionals. And many of the ones who had eating disorders as pre-professionals are the ones who didn't make it, because at some point, you shift from wanting to just LOOK nice to wanting to MOVE nice, and at that point, you realize you need to treat your body the same way as any other athlete - and train and fuel accordingly. The low body fat is just the result of doing any serious physical activity for 6-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, not necessarily a starvation ethos.0 -
I wasn't being entirel fair to MFP on the whole with this post. I was frustrated by one post in particular. The response to whichvi believe was indicative of unhealthiness being encouraged. No one else seemed to notice or care about someone maintaining 118 pounds, at 5'7, with exercise on lss than 1500 a day . Less than 1500 Calories for maintenance is unheard of for a young individual who exercises. I really shocked me.
My apologies for lashing out at mfp on geneal. That wasn't fair. I will say that this was not an isolated even though...just the first time I was upset enough to respond.
I know what post you are referring to. I have seen some ppl who are tall with unhealthy weights and trying to lose more or maintain at those unhealthy weights. It is not normal for a tall woman to be 120 or less.....its just not. And I have seen others encourage them and set their goals to just as low and they just encourage eachother to get as low as they can before looking like a skeleton.
At 5'7 or higher you should NOT be 120 or less. EVER.
You dont look healthy - you look malnourished, you look like you are starving yourself...even if you do have some muscles. Its sick...and I have seen others encourage it and those are usually ppl with the same unhealthy goals. Granted there are a VERY FEW women in the world who are naturally stick thin - but its not the norm, its not common, and to make yourself one of them when its not natural for you makes you look grossly underweight.0 -
At 5'7 or higher you should NOT be 120 or less. EVER.
Generalizations like this really don't work. From age 16 I was 5'7" and around 100 pounds, and I didn't break 120 for maybe another 8 years. And I ate more than you would believe.0 -
I have been obese all my life, when I was 12 I already weighed 135lbs, when I got married I was 180 then had my 1st child and gained 60ibs. Now I have put my faith in God and trusted HIm to help me get rid of my bad eating habits. I am being told to eat more and I feel if I do I will be over eating for my height. I eat aprox 1200 cal a day sometimes less & walk 3-4 miles a day. Is it true if I would eat more I would lose. I have been on a plateau for 3 weeks now. I had gastric bypass in 1987 and went down to 169 from 280, since then I have been slowly climbing back up. My BMI is 39 and BMR shows 1500 cal, so according to that I guess I should eat at least 1500 cal to feed my body. Our family has never been health conscious so this is all new to me. Hoping you can help me so that I can start losing again even if it is only a pound a week.0
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At 5'7 or higher you should NOT be 120 or less. EVER.
Generalizations like this really don't work. From age 16 I was 5'7" and around 100 pounds, and I didn't break 120 for maybe another 8 years. And I ate more than you would believe.
I agree, there are some people who are just naturally skinny, and I would never tell them that there's no way they are healthy. For most people, I don't advise seeking that out, because if you're not already 5'8, 120, and eating whatever you want, you are not one of these naturally skinny people.
That said, I think weight and BMI are artificially imposed concepts with little to no bearing on actual health. Do you feel good? Really good, not just OK? Can you run a mile without curling up in the fetal position? How fast? Are you comfortable with the way you look? How much can you lift? Will lifting more than that, say at work cause you an injury? How's your flexibility?
Also, this is the internet. And everyone thinks they are right, and the rest are wrong. What probably only 5-10% of people consider is that people are in fact all different, in many ways, and just because something works for you, that doesn't make it the Holy Grail. And just because it didn't, that doesn't make it an awful waste of money invented solely to deceive the huddled masses.
So yes, the general idea of the site is health, but the membership is split on how to accomplish that. And its still the Internet, so, what can you do?0 -
At 5'7 or higher you should NOT be 120 or less. EVER.
Generalizations like this really don't work. From age 16 I was 5'7" and around 100 pounds, and I didn't break 120 for maybe another 8 years. And I ate more than you would believe.
I also said there are VERY FEW women who are naturally thin like that. I wont comment about you being 5'7 and 100 lbs but there are ppl with super high metabolisms...which is why I said there ARE a very few women out there like that. However, given the fact that these ladies are overweight currently and aiming for 120 or less....it is NOT natural for them to be that thin.....The lowest weight for women at 5'7 to even be considered barely healthy is 121. And that is the bottom of the spectrum. In other words...that 1 lb means you are underweight. Given the few exceptions....a tall woman should not aim for losing her weight down to that low. Its not natural for her - its unhealthy for her. Read all I write - not just one part. ALSO, a woman who is maintaining at 120-125 and insisting on losing down to 115....the OP is right - its not healthy to encourage that when she looks healthy and fabulous right where shes at.0 -
Then EDUCATE people instead of complaining!
well said.0 -
This is the post in which the OP is referring to:
I have a bmi of 18.5-18.9 (I think). So I'm healthy. And like many people I probably underestimate my calories. (not by much but It's not like I measure the cream in my coffee). So. no need to attack me- if I have my calories higher I gain because I eat to much and don't feel good. I have plenty of energy. I think everyone is built different, their isn't a one size fits all. Some people have slower metabolisms which actually is not a bad thing (though many people think it is). I use calories more efficiently. And I have been underweight my whole whole life and also a small eater so a bmi of 18.5 is at the high end of what I am used to and I am happy to be there.I average 1,250-1,300. Don't eat back my exercise cals and work out on average 30 or so minutes a day. I figure if it is part of the way I live, why eat back the calories. -I zig zag a ton! My weight has been a stable 118 pounds - 5'7in and I'm happy with that. If I wanted to loose I'd probably eat 1,000-1,200...maybe I have a slow metabolism? But I feel good and am satisfied with how much I eat
I've been counting calories for a very long long time and know that 1,300-1,400 calories I maintain, 1,600 up I gain, 1,000 ish I get smaller.
Considering you're at the LOWEST weight to be considered healthy for your height it's not surprising that you're maintaining on a weight loss amount. 1250-1300 calories is "dieting" for MOST people and should be for you as well but I suspect that this is an unnaturally low weight for your body and it simply isn't losing because you're already at a dangerously low weight/body fat for your height.
Any ways. I'm not at a "dangerously low body weight", every time I go to the docs they say I'm doing great.
( really hope I don't get attacked for this post but If I do ell well.-Just trying to say that I believe people need to listen to their body's-it's ok to eat a little less if that feels right to you...maybe I'm wrong. But if I am you could tell me with out using caps locks...thnxs)
You're doing just fine hun. Keep it up.
I encouraged her because, if you actually read her response, you'd see she came a long way from where she was previously. So, *for her* the 18 point whatever BMI is good *for her* and she shouldn't have to be ridiculed from people who DON'T know her situation or history. Like you said, you've been here for a short while. Perhaps, you'd be better off reading a little more instead of pushing your standards off on others. I mean that in the nicest way possible.0 -
This is the post in which the OP is referring to:
I have a bmi of 18.5-18.9 (I think). So I'm healthy. And like many people I probably underestimate my calories. (not by much but It's not like I measure the cream in my coffee). So. no need to attack me- if I have my calories higher I gain because I eat to much and don't feel good. I have plenty of energy. I think everyone is built different, their isn't a one size fits all. Some people have slower metabolisms which actually is not a bad thing (though many people think it is). I use calories more efficiently. And I have been underweight my whole whole life and also a small eater so a bmi of 18.5 is at the high end of what I am used to and I am happy to be there.I average 1,250-1,300. Don't eat back my exercise cals and work out on average 30 or so minutes a day. I figure if it is part of the way I live, why eat back the calories. -I zig zag a ton! My weight has been a stable 118 pounds - 5'7in and I'm happy with that. If I wanted to loose I'd probably eat 1,000-1,200...maybe I have a slow metabolism? But I feel good and am satisfied with how much I eat I've been counting calories for a very long long time and know that 1,300-1,400 calories I maintain, 1,600 up I gain, 1,000 ish I get smaller.
Considering you're at the LOWEST weight to be considered healthy for your height it's not surprising that you're maintaining on a weight loss amount. 1250-1300 calories is "dieting" for MOST people and should be for you as well but I suspect that this is an unnaturally low weight for your body and it simply isn't losing because you're already at a dangerously low weight/body fat for your height.
Any ways. I'm not at a "dangerously low body weight", every time I go to the docs they say I'm doing great.
( really hope I don't get attacked for this post but If I do ell well.-Just trying to say that I believe people need to listen to their body's-it's ok to eat a little less if that feels right to you...maybe I'm wrong. But if I am you could tell me with out using caps locks...thnxs)
You're doing just fine hun. Keep it up.
I encouraged her because, if you actually read her response, you'd see she came a long way from where she was previously. So, *for her* the 18 point whatever BMI is good *for her* and she shouldn't have to be ridiculed from people who DON'T know her situation or history. Like you said, you've been here for a short while. Perhaps, you'd be better off reading a little more instead of pushing your standards off on others. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
okay, so this person has a BMI of 18.48, technically UNDERweight. She's eating 1300 calories MAX and not eating back her exercise calories. She said this explicitly. She knows from experience that 1000 calories = smaller, so she's done the starvation diet thing. She claims to be underweight her whole life BUT she counts her calories and has done so for a long time? Seems unnaturally underweight to me and attempting to justify it.
Then the response to that is "you're doing fine hun, keep it up"....now how is she doing fine? She's already said she's basically starved herself with 1000 calories a day..."1000 calories and I get smaller." she is borderline underweight. She eats a weight loss amount and doesn't eat back her calories even though she exercises for 30 minutes a day (so burning an extra 200-300 on top of her BMR). How is this okay? She is making no effort of eating how many calories her body requires. Seems like an unhealthy lifestyle to me.0 -
Unfortunately we don't all maintain or lose on the same number of calories, even at the same height and weight. If only it were that simple! I would love to be able to eat what my similar sized friends do, but due to individual factors (including medication I am on) I just can't.
At the end of the day we have to make decisions for ourselves and let others do the same, whatever they may be.0 -
You're wasting your time. It's very hard to communicate with the majority of users in this community. There's a serious lack of common sense going around here.
Ah, I don't think this is true. Most people follow a healthy weightloss programme. But there is certainly a vociferous minority who promote all kinds of nonsense. And there are a worrying number of people with florid eating disorders, and a clear pro-ana group in evidence that it vaguely shocks me isn't dealt with by the mods....0
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