Endurance sports cause the body to break down muscle
Lizzy_Sunflower
Posts: 1,510 Member
I read this article and got a shock when I read: "Endurance sports actually cause the body to break down overall muscle - even if your legs get stronger."
Just started week 3 of C25k. I am Not trying to lose muscle here, and haven't been able to add strength back in to my training schedule yet! Yikes!!
link: http://community.active.com/thread/78673
copy/pasted:
As January often signals the start of many a fitness / weight loss goal I though this may be a good time to clear up a few misconceptions about running and the C25k plan
1. The C25K is intended to get your body aclimated to the physical demands of running - it is not designed to get you fit or for weight loss
2. The plan has you doing about 20 - 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week - this is not anywhere close to enough to improve your fitness - this is why people continue to struggle with breathing though the program if they do nothing else - their fitness is not improving. To imrpove your cardio vascular fitness you need to engage in an activity that keeps your heart rate elevated for at least 40 mins at LEAST 3 times a week - better yet - 1 hour 5 - 6 times a week.
3. To lose 1lb of fat you need burn about 3500 calories - the plan in it`s final week burns about 1000 cals - it will take almost a month to burn off 1lb if all you do is the C25K - this is assuming of course you are not over eating - in which case you`ll just gain slighty less. If you want to lose weight there is not substitute - you HAVE to diet - if you want to keep it off - you have to change your eating habits.
4. If at the end of 4 weeks on the program you weight more you are NOT gaining muscle - you are eating too much. Yes muscle is denser than fat but it is VERY hard to gain 2 lbs of muscle - so unless you are on a high protien diet and lifting very heavy weights for 2 -3 hours a day - you need to look at you diet. Endurance sports actually cause the body to break down overall muscle - even if your legs get stronger.
5. Running is physically hard - as a activity to take up when trying to get fit / lighter when you have not been active up to this point - it is possibly the worse choice - you body physically can not handle sufficent time / distance to make a decent impact on either goal - ( see points 2 +3 ). You can spend longer biking, using the eliptical and walking - they will help prepare you body to run AND burn more calories.
6. The program is run for time OR distance - few new runners move at a 10 min mile pace - if you run it for time you are likely going to be covering more like 2 - 2.5 miles at the end not 3.
7. Yes you can - and should cross train on non running days ( see point 2 )
8. a good weight training program will be very benifical - hire a personal trainer
***************************************************************************************************************************
Point 7 I thought the point of non running days was to Rest and rebuild?
Point 8, yeah I'd love to but cant afford it
Just started week 3 of C25k. I am Not trying to lose muscle here, and haven't been able to add strength back in to my training schedule yet! Yikes!!
link: http://community.active.com/thread/78673
copy/pasted:
As January often signals the start of many a fitness / weight loss goal I though this may be a good time to clear up a few misconceptions about running and the C25k plan
1. The C25K is intended to get your body aclimated to the physical demands of running - it is not designed to get you fit or for weight loss
2. The plan has you doing about 20 - 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week - this is not anywhere close to enough to improve your fitness - this is why people continue to struggle with breathing though the program if they do nothing else - their fitness is not improving. To imrpove your cardio vascular fitness you need to engage in an activity that keeps your heart rate elevated for at least 40 mins at LEAST 3 times a week - better yet - 1 hour 5 - 6 times a week.
3. To lose 1lb of fat you need burn about 3500 calories - the plan in it`s final week burns about 1000 cals - it will take almost a month to burn off 1lb if all you do is the C25K - this is assuming of course you are not over eating - in which case you`ll just gain slighty less. If you want to lose weight there is not substitute - you HAVE to diet - if you want to keep it off - you have to change your eating habits.
4. If at the end of 4 weeks on the program you weight more you are NOT gaining muscle - you are eating too much. Yes muscle is denser than fat but it is VERY hard to gain 2 lbs of muscle - so unless you are on a high protien diet and lifting very heavy weights for 2 -3 hours a day - you need to look at you diet. Endurance sports actually cause the body to break down overall muscle - even if your legs get stronger.
5. Running is physically hard - as a activity to take up when trying to get fit / lighter when you have not been active up to this point - it is possibly the worse choice - you body physically can not handle sufficent time / distance to make a decent impact on either goal - ( see points 2 +3 ). You can spend longer biking, using the eliptical and walking - they will help prepare you body to run AND burn more calories.
6. The program is run for time OR distance - few new runners move at a 10 min mile pace - if you run it for time you are likely going to be covering more like 2 - 2.5 miles at the end not 3.
7. Yes you can - and should cross train on non running days ( see point 2 )
8. a good weight training program will be very benifical - hire a personal trainer
***************************************************************************************************************************
Point 7 I thought the point of non running days was to Rest and rebuild?
Point 8, yeah I'd love to but cant afford it
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Replies
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I am shocked that this won't improve your fitness. WOW.0
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I am shocked that this won't improve your fitness. WOW.
I find this hard to believe. As I "feel" fitter in just the 3 weeks. I AM doing other things in addition to C25k, and obviously watching my diet. I just wonder how to balance the "weight bearing" exercise in relation to my program0 -
Endurance sports will help increase your fitness, but will not necessarily help with strength...which is why you need to cross train. I started running last year with C25K while still doing some weight training, and I can honestly say I am way more fit than I have ever been in my life. I have a low resting heart rate, my BP is great and my stamina lasts longer than ever; but there was a couple of months where I focused mainly on running and not strength training and that set me back in the gym. I went back in expecting to pick up where I was before and found myself having to drop weights off.
Also, you will probably lose weight doing C25K and running if it is done with a proper diet. I had hit a wall in my weight loss until I started running last year and that kicked things into overdrive. I lost 10 pounds between March and September, lost another 55 between September to this past April, I do attribute that to running. But, at the same time, if you are not careful, with weight loss can come muscle loss; once again showing the need for weight training. In fact while everyone around me was concerned about my health due to dropping so much weight (for no reason other than being busy bodies), the guy who owns the gym I work out at pulled me aside and asked me about my strength if I had lost any.
Not sure if this helps or not, or even relates, just what I got out of what you posted.0 -
What are their benchmarks for the fitness of the person at the beginning of the program? Some people won't get more fit because they are already at a point of fitness where this level of activity won't gain them more fitness. Others are not quite so fit and will gain fitness from this. Anything that starts stating always, all, none should get you doing more investigation on your own.0
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8. a good weight training program will be very benifical - hire a personal trainer
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Point 8, yeah I'd love to but cant afford it
You answered your own question. This guy is obviously trying to get people to hire personal trainers because easy to follow programs like C25K are preceived threats to their business. I would take his post as adverstising instead of actual advice.
C25K is an excellent program and helped imrpove my health imensly. I also do weight training. But if all you can afford with both time and money is Couch-2-5K. By all means keep doing it. It does improve your health. Will C25K do you any good once you can run a 5K? Of course not. You will have to move on to different challenges to improve your fitness. But your BS meter should peg out when someone makes a blanket statement like: "C25K won't improve your fitness".0 -
This is actually poorly worded and illustrated example, because no form of training will break muscle down, However a poor diet where you don't take in enough protein to allow your muscle to build and repair or if you don't have enough BCAA in your diet will lead to muscle lose, the body needs BCAA or Branch Chain Amino Acids to maintain muscle as well as a balanced diet which give the correct amount of protein,
Don't worry OP blogs and articles like this are full of crap, and as stated above are used to increase the health industry and personal trainers pockets :-D0 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.0 -
I'm sorry, but there is so much bad logic in this entire article I don't even know where to begin.
Overall I'll just say this: NO exercise will be good for weightloss if you don't eat properly. I can spend seven hours in the gym and still gain by eating crap.0 -
Endurance distances yes break your body down. Its not uncommon to get sick, hurt etc during or after an endurance sport. However endurance is LONG..not c25k..and most of us after hitting an hr after running continusly or biking or swimming or whatever know what and how to hydrate or replensih what is needed.
The biggest problem with cardio junkies (which is ME) is that we are not cross trained properly. Yes I do triathlons and swim and bike and run..but I do not strength train, stretch etc..All my movement is forward not lateral. So core is weak and side hips are weak leading to alot of injuries.
I dont think that C25k is meant as a weight loss provider. I think it gets you out there moving..not eating..which is great for your heart and body. The true weight loss is calorie consumption0 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.
What kinds of cross training and when should it be done?
Is it okay to add weights on run days? or Rest days? (as I thought I was supposed to be "resting" muscles)
Sorry if these sound stupid. I just want to figure the balance of it out0 -
I think the article, not the OP, is a load of crap personally. If you run you are improving fitness and that is good enough for me. You do build muscle. I have proof in my legs where I have muscles that weren't there before. I don't think running long distances like marathons and such are good for you but things like the C25K (which I just finished) are great for improving fitness IMO. But I agree with needing to do something else in between the days you run and watching the diet of course.0
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I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here and I certainly don't want to attack the poster, but i disagree with many points, especially "2. The plan has you doing about 20 - 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week - this is not anywhere close to enough to improve your fitness - this is why people continue to struggle with breathing though the program if they do nothing else - their fitness is not improving. To imrpove your cardio vascular fitness you need to engage in an activity that keeps your heart rate elevated for at least 40 mins at LEAST 3 times a week - better yet - 1 hour 5 - 6 times a week. " This is not a fact. The fact is, even a 30 minute program 3-4 days a week can drastically improve your cardio fitness!
Sometimes you have to look no further than the poorly edited post to see that it wasn't well thought out and backed up by proper research.
Having said that, i do agree that cross training is important.0 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.
What kinds of cross training and when should it be done?
Is it okay to add weights on run days? or Rest days? (as I thought I was supposed to be "resting" muscles)
Sorry if these sound stupid. I just want to figure the balance of it out
When I did C25K, my schedule was something like this:
Monday-30 DS
Tuesday- Run
Wednesday-30 DS
Thursday- Run
Friday-30 DS
Saturday-Run
Sunday-Rest0 -
If you start out and do the program in its form starting from scratch you will be in better shape than having not done anything. Some of the points are valid. Granted it is not a overall weight loss program, but I know it is a good place to start.
You can find decent strength training other programs or online if you need that. You don't need to hire a PT. ALthough they are nice to have. You can incorporate the strength training into the rest/rebuild days while resting you legs, as well as cross training. Ellipiticals, bicycles, swimming, and flat our walking will only help you on your rest days.
I would think that the point number four is a wild *kitten* guess and has not scientific base. Unless of course the subject has little bodyfat, is consuming a very limited calorie intake, and is consistenly doing endurance training. I have seen people that all three conditions are being met and you can smell the muscle burning off of them. Smells like ammonia. I doubt that people that are starting the C25K are in that predicament0 -
Although the goal of running for 30 minutes at a stretch SEEMS like an impossibly long time when you're first getting started, I think lumping C25K into "endurance sports" is silly. No one's going to move into muscle-devouring mode while doing C25K, unless you're combining it with a starvation diet.
"The C25K is intended to get your body aclimated to the physical demands of running - it is not designed to get you fit or for weight loss". Hmmmm, seems like it would be hard to get acclimated to the physical demands of running without improving your fitness level over those nine or ten (or more) weeks.0 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.
What kinds of cross training and when should it be done?
Is it okay to add weights on run days? or Rest days? (as I thought I was supposed to be "resting" muscles)
Sorry if these sound stupid. I just want to figure the balance of it out
Lift whenever you want to lift, just remember that running distance incorporates more of the slow twitch muscles. So you want to make your weight exercises higher reps with lower weights (consistent with endurance running). Do not avoid leg exercises. Running only incorporates select leg muscles, so you should do squats, deadlifts, and leg press exercises to build power and strength for all of your leg muscles. Plus, it will help make your joints stronger.
You should take a rest day. If you combine running with lifting, I would run first (either earlier in the day or earlier in your trip to the gym) if it is your priority workout. You don't want to try to run after doing squats. Your form will suffer, and you may not finish your run.0 -
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here and I certainly don't want to attack the poster, but i disagree with many points, especially "2. The plan has you doing about 20 - 30 mins of cardio 3 times a week - this is not anywhere close to enough to improve your fitness - this is why people continue to struggle with breathing though the program if they do nothing else - their fitness is not improving. To imrpove your cardio vascular fitness you need to engage in an activity that keeps your heart rate elevated for at least 40 mins at LEAST 3 times a week - better yet - 1 hour 5 - 6 times a week. " This is not a fact. The fact is, even a 30 minute program 3-4 days a week can drastically improve your cardio fitness!
Sometimes you have to look no further than the poorly edited post to see that it wasn't well thought out and backed up by proper research.
Having said that, i do agree that cross training is important.
No offense taken. I obviously do not agree with the article either. I just panicked because I cut strength training out when I started c25k.
Just trying to get ideas from people with experience
:flowerforyou:0 -
Although the goal of running for 30 minutes at a stretch SEEMS like an impossibly long time when you're first getting started, I think lumping C25K into "endurance sports" is silly. No one's going to move into muscle-devouring mode while doing C25K, unless you're combining it with a starvation diet.
I agree. You don't run the risk of burning muscle for fuel until you hit around 60+ minutes of continuous running.0 -
Its not even an article... its someones rantings on a message board. Running will definitely improve your fitness level. Yes you do have to eat well to lose weight and weight training is very important, but pretty much the rest of the article is someone's opinion.0
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Thank you for the replies every one
totally makes sense. good points. I feel smarter already0 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.
^^ This.
When you're running a marathon, your body gets to the point where glycogen stores are depleted (they call this the "runner's wall") and your body can and often will start breaking muscle down to use for energy. It's one of the reasons that proper hydration before, during, and after a marathon are so important. Without proper hydration, runners can end up with rhabdomyolysis, which could potentially kill you.
If you're only running 5Ks, though, you don't have to be built like a runner at all. Cross training is very important in helping build muscle, but runners can also do things like hill training and fartleks to help build strength and endurance. I really think that article was slanted to persuade people to hire personal trainers. You don't need a personal trainer, just a decent cross training program with some kind of weight training. The best weight training programs I have used all utilize body weight training (in the form of squats, lunges, etc.) and don't require a gym membership to do.
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I think the article, not the OP, is a load of crap personally. If you run you are improving fitness and that is good enough for me. You do build muscle. I have proof in my legs where I have muscles that weren't there before. I don't think running long distances like marathons and such are good for you but things like the C25K (which I just finished) are great for improving fitness IMO. But I agree with needing to do something else in between the days you run and watching the diet of course.
Burning fat to expose the muscle underneath is not the same as building new muscle. You don't build muscle by running, you build muscle by lifting heavy weights. It's two different types of training, and uses two different types of muscle fiber.
As for the article itself, it's crap. C25K is a fantastic program for getting into shape, and you can most certainly drastically improve your cardio fitness in 30 minutes, 3 times a week. In fact most studies have shown that doing much more than that doesn't really have much more improvement, at that point you're doing it for enjoyment, and not necessarily to get in shape.0 -
C25K is a fantastic program for getting into shape, and you can most certainly drastically improve your cardio fitness in 30 minutes, 3 times a week. In fact most studies have shown that doing much more than that doesn't really have much more improvement, at that point you're doing it for enjoyment, and not necessarily to get in shape.
I agree. I see my cardio fitness improving already.
but I am definitely doing this to get in shape, not because I enjoy running!
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I think the article, not the OP, is a load of crap personally. If you run you are improving fitness and that is good enough for me. You do build muscle. I have proof in my legs where I have muscles that weren't there before. I don't think running long distances like marathons and such are good for you but things like the C25K (which I just finished) are great for improving fitness IMO. But I agree with needing to do something else in between the days you run and watching the diet of course.
Burning fat to expose the muscle underneath is not the same as building new muscle. You don't build muscle by running, you build muscle by lifting heavy weights. It's two different types of training, and uses two different types of muscle fiber.
As for the article itself, it's crap. C25K is a fantastic program for getting into shape, and you can most certainly drastically improve your cardio fitness in 30 minutes, 3 times a week. In fact most studies have shown that doing much more than that doesn't really have much more improvement, at that point you're doing it for enjoyment, and not necessarily to get in shape.
Running has actually helped me build muscle since I really didn't have any in my calves to begin with. I don't think it will do much more than it already has but it definitely did build some and not just burned the fat.
OP - here is an article I found that you may like to read. Just an interesting read I think.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Running-Build-Muscle?&id=12492760 -
Ever seen a bulky marathoner (veteran runner)? Muscle is counter-productive to endurance efficiency, and makes a lovely fuel source when other fuels are lacking. Just like with lifting, you should follow-up a long run with a protein source.
Cross-training is a must if you don't want to be built like a runner.
What kinds of cross training and when should it be done?
Is it okay to add weights on run days? or Rest days? (as I thought I was supposed to be "resting" muscles)
Sorry if these sound stupid. I just want to figure the balance of it out
Lift whenever you want to lift, just remember that running distance incorporates more of the slow twitch muscles. So you want to make your weight exercises higher reps with lower weights (consistent with endurance running). Do not avoid leg exercises. Running only incorporates select leg muscles, so you should do squats, deadlifts, and leg press exercises to build power and strength for all of your leg muscles. Plus, it will help make your joints stronger.
You should take a rest day. If you combine running with lifting, I would run first (either earlier in the day or earlier in your trip to the gym) if it is your priority workout. You don't want to try to run after doing squats. Your form will suffer, and you may not finish your run.
I sometimes combine my training with running - I generally do personal training right after work 2x a week and some days that ends up being my C25k day so I go home, eat dinner, and then run after that. So far it has been fine but I think that is because I was doing the strength training long before i started running, so unless I add a lot of weight to my squats and lunges I'm generally fine to run afterwards. Squats are quite different than running, at least for me.
OP:
If you want to start slow, use your off days to do some bodyweight exercises like pushups, planks, squats, lunges. If you are weak these are very good even without adding any weight - you can add hand weights later (just hold them while you do the squats and lunges). There are a LOT of variation on those and if you do have some basic equipment (exercise ball, some hand weights) you can add a few more simple exercises and have a really good workout.
I actually like to dance on my off-running days (Dance Central anyway) -- it does use your legs but it uses them in a very different way so I find that really effective, plus there's a lot more side to side motion.0 -
It's practically impossible to build muscle on a calorie deficit diet. There have been several peer reviewed studies to back this up.Running has actually helped me build muscle since I really didn't have any in my calves to begin with. I don't think it will do much more than it already has but it definitely did build some and not just burned the fat.
OP - here is an article I found that you may like to read. Just an interesting read I think.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Running-Build-Muscle?&id=1249276
You calves may be more conditioned and "fuller" because of glycogen storage, but building muscle takes calorie surplus.0 -
I think the article, not the OP, is a load of crap personally. If you run you are improving fitness and that is good enough for me. You do build muscle. I have proof in my legs where I have muscles that weren't there before. I don't think running long distances like marathons and such are good for you but things like the C25K (which I just finished) are great for improving fitness IMO. But I agree with needing to do something else in between the days you run and watching the diet of course.
Burning fat to expose the muscle underneath is not the same as building new muscle. You don't build muscle by running, you build muscle by lifting heavy weights. It's two different types of training, and uses two different types of muscle fiber.
As for the article itself, it's crap. C25K is a fantastic program for getting into shape, and you can most certainly drastically improve your cardio fitness in 30 minutes, 3 times a week. In fact most studies have shown that doing much more than that doesn't really have much more improvement, at that point you're doing it for enjoyment, and not necessarily to get in shape.
Running has actually helped me build muscle since I really didn't have any in my calves to begin with. I don't think it will do much more than it already has but it definitely did build some and not just burned the fat.
OP - here is an article I found that you may like to read. Just an interesting read I think.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Running-Build-Muscle?&id=1249276
great article Thanks! I like this "Running is a very healthy cardiovascular exercise. The act of running increases blood flow, which stimulates the heart. Running also increases the amount of catabolic hormones released into your system. Catabolic hormones will actually cause you to lose weight, as well as muscle mass."
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/12492760 -
It's practically impossible to build muscle on a calorie deficit diet. There have been several peer reviewed studies to back this up.Running has actually helped me build muscle since I really didn't have any in my calves to begin with. I don't think it will do much more than it already has but it definitely did build some and not just burned the fat.
OP - here is an article I found that you may like to read. Just an interesting read I think.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Running-Build-Muscle?&id=1249276
You calves may be more conditioned and "fuller" because of glycogen storage, but building muscle takes calorie surplus.
I think I'm using the wrong term, Strengthening is probably the word I'm looking for or "fuller" as you say. 0 -
My take on this is just doing "one" activity like running doesn't make you fitter overall. Your endurance will get better, but does that mean you can do a push up or pull up because of all that running? Or if you're a really good lifter, that you can run a mile without getting winded?
Most people who are really fit are good at strength, endurance, speed and agility in the overall body.0 -
It's practically impossible to build muscle on a calorie deficit diet. There have been several peer reviewed studies to back this up.Running has actually helped me build muscle since I really didn't have any in my calves to begin with. I don't think it will do much more than it already has but it definitely did build some and not just burned the fat.
OP - here is an article I found that you may like to read. Just an interesting read I think.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Running-Build-Muscle?&id=1249276
You calves may be more conditioned and "fuller" because of glycogen storage, but building muscle takes calorie surplus.
at this point I am looking to "shift" body weight. I want fuller muscles and less fat.
doesn't the body use fat as fuel when in calorie deficit?0
This discussion has been closed.
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