Shock the body?

LabRat529
LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
I keep hearing the phrase "shock the body". Sometimes it pertains to zig-zagging calorie intake. Sometimes it pertains to changing up your exercise routine. What i want to know is: Is their any real (non-anecdotal) evidence that this works?

I'm curious because the concept doesn't fit with my preconceived notion of how our bodies work. I might be completely wrong, but it seems to me that our bodies rock at adapting to a changing environment, so 'shocking' it isn't going to shock it at all. It will just make some minor tweaks in hormone levels and you're instantly good to go.

To me, the advantage of changing things up would be a mental advantage and not a physiological one. I'd get bored eating the same way every day, so the occasional splurg counts as 'fun' and helps me maintain my diet mentality. Likewise with exercise: I'd get bored doing the same thing every day, so changing things up helps with the motivation.

Anyone wanna show me with science that I'm wrong? And I mean that in a total 'let's have a fun discussion' kind of way. Not in an 'I'm trying to start a fight and prove to everyone that I am right' kinda way :D I seriously just want to know, but I don't really know where I'd go for this type of info.
«1

Replies

  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    This doesn't fit your criteria of non-anecdotal, but you should read Lyle McDonald's series on leptin.

    www.bodyrecomposition.com


    Search for "leptin" in the search field.

    I beleive there is definitely a physiological advantage as well as mental.
  • Nicola0000
    Nicola0000 Posts: 531 Member
    zig zagging calories is good as the body doesnt get used to what you're giving it everyday. Its good for people with not much weight to lose. If you keep cals low every day, the body sees it as being in a "famine" mode, so metabolism can slow and can end up in a plateau. As long as you're not going over your weekly cal intake, then it will be fine.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    You can start here:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html

    This is a 6 part series and I recommend it. Increasingly more important in lean individuals but nonetheless, a great read.
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
    @ Sidesteal, Thanks! I will take a look.

    @ Nicola000, Thanks for your response too... but what I'm wondering is if there's evidence that things work the way people say they work. I know the hypothesis- that your body won't get used to a certain life style and adjust your metabolism and so forth... but has anyone shown that it works that way? Does anyone have data to support that hypothesis. I'm a total nerd and I wanna know :D
  • merrick7871
    merrick7871 Posts: 161 Member
    This is a great topic and I would be interested to know this myself.
  • Quiing
    Quiing Posts: 261 Member
    It absolutely works. If you keep doing the same thing all the time, your body gets accustomed to it. Just like watching the same movie over and over, it loses its wow factor.

    If you switch it up, your body gets confused and has to put in more work to catch up, which burns more calories and breaks plateaus. Variety is the spice of life.
  • adjones5
    adjones5 Posts: 938 Member
    Don't underscore how much your psychological health has to do with weight loss, I don't know the science when it comes to the physiological aspects of this but giving yourself a boost mentally is equally as important as giving yourself a boost physically!
  • i wonder this too, i tend to skip a lot of meals sometimes and then eat a lot other days and i have heard different things. good question
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
    It absolutely works. If you keep doing the same thing all the time, your body gets accustomed to it. Just like watching the same movie over and over, it loses its wow factor.

    If you switch it up, your body gets confused and has to put in more work to catch up, which burns more calories and breaks plateaus. Variety is the spice of life.

    But can you PROVE that it works? Or do you just have faith that it works?

    I'm not asking that to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Does it work or do people just think it works?
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
    Don't underscore how much your psychological health has to do with weight loss, I don't know the science when it comes to the physiological aspects of this but giving yourself a boost mentally is equally as important as giving yourself a boost physically!

    Oh I know :D The placebo effect is a measurable effect! You can quantitate it! The only explanation for how placebos work is that mental boost you get because you believe in something. And I'm totally cool with that :D I just want to know: Are the benefits purely psychological? Or is it physiological too?
  • _GlaDOS_
    _GlaDOS_ Posts: 1,520 Member
    Good question. I was just wondering this myself the other day. I'd also like to see if anyone has any good evidence for it.
  • tross0924
    tross0924 Posts: 909 Member
    In my personal opinion as far as the exercise goes I think its BS. I don't think my body is that stupid personally.

    "Last week you did alternating bicep curls followed by tricep kick back, this week you did chair dips followed by 21's accckkkkk what do I do!!!"

    To work a muscle you contract it and elongate it under tension. Now granted you can hit slightly different angles and work it in a slightly different ways, which honestly is great for fully developing the strength needed to progress and growing as much of the muscle as possible, but the bulk of the muscle doesn't "know" that you've changed anything so it can't get "confused". Last week it contracted and elongated X number times with Y amount of weight. This week it did the exactly same thing. Not very confusing.

    Want growth? Increase something every week. Either X or Y. Weight or reps. Do one more rep, or add 5 lbs and do less reps and then the week after do one more rep.

    As far as the diet goes. I have no real opinion either way.
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    It absolutely works. If you keep doing the same thing all the time, your body gets accustomed to it. Just like watching the same movie over and over, it loses its wow factor.


    If you switch it up, your body gets confused and has to put in more work to catch up, which burns more calories and breaks plateaus. Variety is the spice of life.

    Your body isn't that stupid.

    As far as training is concerned, "muscle confusion" is a complete myth. Many of the worlds strongest athletes are trained according to the SAID principle. In fact, one of the most successful Olympic Weightlifting programs used the same 3 lifts every time. (Google Ivan Abadjiev).
  • mem50
    mem50 Posts: 1,384 Member
    It absolutely works. If you keep doing the same thing all the time, your body gets accustomed to it. Just like watching the same movie over and over, it loses its wow factor.

    If you switch it up, your body gets confused and has to put in more work to catch up, which burns more calories and breaks plateaus. Variety is the spice of life.

    But can you PROVE that it works? Or do you just have faith that it works?

    I'm not asking that to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Does it work or do people just think it works?

    I have to say it all comes down to a simple thought for me. "I think, so therefore I am" I know I'm a bit of an odd duck. What works for one does not work for all. For me it either Did work or I Thought it did work hard enough so that it did work.
  • keeponkickin
    keeponkickin Posts: 1,520 Member
    It absolutely works. If you keep doing the same thing all the time, your body gets accustomed to it. Just like watching the same movie over and over, it loses its wow factor.

    If you switch it up, your body gets confused and has to put in more work to catch up, which burns more calories and breaks plateaus. Variety is the spice of life.

    But can you PROVE that it works? Or do you just have faith that it works?

    I KNOW it works as I've done it. I routinely "shock" my body with an increased calorie spike day or giving my body a few days off exercise and then coming back hard and with a new routine. Works like a gem each and every time. Plus losing 106 pounds in 11 months is more proof it works. Plus it breaks a plateau each and every time.

    I'm not asking that to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Does it work or do people just think it works?
  • I think people like to think that things have to be complicated or mysterious to actually work. If they are not, people can't justify not getting the results they want, when they want them. Just my own opinion and a little self reflection.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    I believe the theory behind refeeds/cheat days etc. is to boost leptin levels which are lowered while you are dieting. Usually they are used by people who are lean and trying to get leaner. They probably do not benefit those who are not lean other then helping them adhere to their diet ie stay good all week with "clean" foods and low cals to have 1 big day.

    When i used them, i followed this outline

    http://jcdfitness.com/2010/06/the-preemptive-refeed/

    with that being said there is a lot of research on leptin that is sort of conflicting


    "Increasing evidence from human studies suggests that leptin predominantly influences the human energy balance through appetite but appears not to be involved in regulating energy expenditure. None of the expected factors such as resting metabolic rate, total diurnal energy expenditure or dietary induced thermogenesis was related to blood leptin concentrations."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15534430

    "After adjusting for body composition (fat-free mass and fat mass), gender, and ethnicity, serum leptin concentrations were not related to any measure of energy expenditure."

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/12/4149

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11994393?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322796?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11126336?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479193?dopt=Abstract

    and in addition to sidesteal's links here's another from leangains

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/intermittent-fasting-set-point-and.html
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
    I agree. I think it's a load of ****.
  • SanMcK70
    SanMcK70 Posts: 19 Member
    It seems to me that what you're asking for as far as proof/evidence, is what you're getting from everyone here but you're not really seeing it. Scientific proof isn't necessarily in tangible evidence, especially when dealing with the human body, but moreover repeated and consistent results when conducting an experiment.

    If everyone who does this type of dieting/exercising switch-up indicates that it works, then that is the proof that it works. It's silly to say that you need ACTUAL PROOF because there isn't a way to provide any type of tangible evidence for this type of hypothesis. The fact of the matter is that the experts recommend changing your dietary and exercise routines for increased weight loss based on studies of how the human body and metabolism work - and I, and obviously many others, can tell you for a fact that it works. So there you have it. :-)
  • ElementalEscapee
    ElementalEscapee Posts: 552 Member
    Hmm bump.
  • skywa
    skywa Posts: 901 Member
    I think that as long as your burning calories and working various muscle groups your going to get results. Regardless of how you go about doing that.

    The body really does adapt too rapidly for anyone to really confuse it.

    I think that changing it up, is more so advantageous for those that have yet to find what really works for them.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    It seems to me that what you're asking for as far as proof/evidence, is what you're getting from everyone here but you're not really seeing it. Scientific proof isn't necessarily in tangible evidence, especially when dealing with the human body, but moreover repeated and consistent results when conducting an experiment.

    If everyone who does this type of dieting/exercising switch-up indicates that it works, then that is the proof that it works. It's silly to say that you need ACTUAL PROOF because there isn't a way to provide any type of tangible evidence for this type of hypothesis. The fact of the matter is that the experts recommend changing your dietary and exercise routines for increased weight loss based on studies of how the human body and metabolism work - and I, and obviously many others, can tell you for a fact that it works. So there you have it. :-)

    Except you are using anecdotal evidence to say that it works, the question i suppose is why do you think it works and is that backed up with actual science.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    .
  • tangiesharp
    tangiesharp Posts: 315 Member
    bump
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
    It seems to me that what you're asking for as far as proof/evidence, is what you're getting from everyone here but you're not really seeing it. Scientific proof isn't necessarily in tangible evidence, especially when dealing with the human body, but moreover repeated and consistent results when conducting an experiment.

    If everyone who does this type of dieting/exercising switch-up indicates that it works, then that is the proof that it works. It's silly to say that you need ACTUAL PROOF because there isn't a way to provide any type of tangible evidence for this type of hypothesis. The fact of the matter is that the experts recommend changing your dietary and exercise routines for increased weight loss based on studies of how the human body and metabolism work - and I, and obviously many others, can tell you for a fact that it works. So there you have it. :-)

    Except you are using anecdotal evidence to say that it works, the question i suppose is why do you think it works and is that backed up with actual science.

    Yup. I ALWAY want to know the WHY. 'cause I'm a nerd and I like that sorta thing.

    And I'd prefer that the why be backed up with scientific data.

    I totally appreciate all the responses though! Even the ones that aren't giving me data.

    I will look over your links, Acg67. Thank you for them :)
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
    It seems to me that what you're asking for as far as proof/evidence, is what you're getting from everyone here but you're not really seeing it. Scientific proof isn't necessarily in tangible evidence, especially when dealing with the human body, but moreover repeated and consistent results when conducting an experiment.

    If everyone who does this type of dieting/exercising switch-up indicates that it works, then that is the proof that it works. It's silly to say that you need ACTUAL PROOF because there isn't a way to provide any type of tangible evidence for this type of hypothesis. The fact of the matter is that the experts recommend changing your dietary and exercise routines for increased weight loss based on studies of how the human body and metabolism work - and I, and obviously many others, can tell you for a fact that it works. So there you have it. :-)

    Oh... and one more thing... people are funny creatures. They have faith in all sorts of things, so asking someone "does it work?" doesn't really produce useful data. That's why clinical trials are designed the way that they are- a good clinical trial is always a double-blind study. The patient doesn't know whether they are receiving the "real" treatment or whether they are getting a placebo. The doctor giving the treatment doesn't know either! Patients will report that they are getting results from a little pill filled with corn-starch. They honestly feel better. They believe in the results. They are not lying. This is the placebo effect and it is statistically significant! You can't separate a placebo effect (i.e. a faith-based effect) from reality without a double blind study.

    So all the people saying it 'really works' are telling the truth from their point of view... but it still might not reflect a benefit from their behavior... it might instead reflect a statistically significant placebo effect.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
    It depends on what hormones you're looking at. Some hormones are primarily regulated at a transcriptional level, which takes a while, while others can be regulated covalently and switched on/off almost immediately. When you go from a post-prandial or fasted state to a fed state, the hormones and enzymes that were causing gluconeogenesis and lypolysis are switched off immediately via covalent and allosteric regulation by hormones/enzymes that turn on lipogenesis and glycogenesis. Others, like fatty acid synthase, are transcrptionally regulated after hours/days of overnutrition. The body is never 'fooled', but in the same token, you can attempt to manipulate hormone levels, like carbing-up to increase insulin and glycogen synthesis.
  • Artemis_Acorn
    Artemis_Acorn Posts: 836 Member
    As I understand it, our bodies are not only good at adapting to changes, but they are exceptionally good at establishing stability in our systems - at least a reasonably healthy body is. We see this effect in things such as heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure.

    What we are talking about in this case is energy homeostasis, which is accomplished in our body with various hormones such as insulin and leptin. The hormonal balance in our body is established through feedback loops that tell our system what the energy needs are and what the energy sources are. If our caloric intake is consistently at a certain level, the body systems include that data in the equation, and if the caloric intake is insufficient for our energy needs, the hormones will adapt to that over time and make our metabolism more efficient - therefore burning fewer calories. Our bodies continually make these adjustments at minute levels, which is why eating something will temporarily speed up your metabolism.

    This capability, it is assumed, is the product of eons of evolution, and allowed our ancestors to live through times of famine. Natural selection presumably killed off the genetic lines that did not have this inborn ability to turn down the thermostat.

    So here we are, wanting to lose weight. We continually feed ourselves with a caloric deficit. The body - to achieve energy homeostasis - dips into our fat stores to run the systems - yay, the pounds start coming off. Over time however, if the caloric deficit continues, our bodies wise up and assume that there might just be a famine in the works, so the efficiencies start kicking in. Lucky us. This is where the 'shock the body' theories come into play. It is theorized that by feeding the body more, the increase will be incorporated into those feedback signals and the body will get the message that the famine is over. and the same adaptation mechanism that slowed down our metabolism will speed back up - at least temporarily.

    As far as I know, these are working theories and biological models that are still being researched. Something like this may be difficult to 'prove' over a long-term study, because it is difficult to establish a control on something like this for an extended period, however, there are some short-term studies that have documented these effects.

    I would prefer not to think of temporarily changing the caloric inputs as 'shocking' or 'tricking' the body, but rather as altering the feedback mechanisms that drive these processes. There are so many variables to something like this that there are certainly people who it will fail to have results with. An example would be someone with endocrine system disorders where the systems aren't necessarily functioning correctly. In general though, the concept behind this is sound. Applying it to our weight loss programs is probably not going to be very effective unless we really understand what we are doing though.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,993 Member
    I keep hearing the phrase "shock the body". Sometimes it pertains to zig-zagging calorie intake. Sometimes it pertains to changing up your exercise routine. What i want to know is: Is their any real (non-anecdotal) evidence that this works?

    I'm curious because the concept doesn't fit with my preconceived notion of how our bodies work. I might be completely wrong, but it seems to me that our bodies rock at adapting to a changing environment, so 'shocking' it isn't going to shock it at all. It will just make some minor tweaks in hormone levels and you're instantly good to go.

    To me, the advantage of changing things up would be a mental advantage and not a physiological one. I'd get bored eating the same way every day, so the occasional splurg counts as 'fun' and helps me maintain my diet mentality. Likewise with exercise: I'd get bored doing the same thing every day, so changing things up helps with the motivation.

    Anyone wanna show me with science that I'm wrong? And I mean that in a total 'let's have a fun discussion' kind of way. Not in an 'I'm trying to start a fight and prove to everyone that I am right' kinda way :D I seriously just want to know, but I don't really know where I'd go for this type of info.
    When the body does something it's not accustomed to it reacts to compensate. For example if you haven't exercised for a long period of time and then take it up, the body responds by retaining water and glycogen in the assumption that it's going to happen again.
    So if you've dieted for an extended period of time, then have a high calorie day, the next day may reveal a loss in weight because the perception of the body is that there is a surplus of calories being added in and there will be extra energy to burn.
    I'd have to look and see if I can find any real scientific evidence to back it up though. I haven't really ever thought about it.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • No proof what so ever except my own body. I wore a bodymedia fit. I had an exact calorie deficit of 3500-3750 for 3 weeks. I lost 1 lb a week. The fourth week I had a deficit of 1002. I lost 6 lbs. Then back to my 3500-3750 and I lost nothing. Did that for 3 weeks. 4th week I had an overage for the week and was SO depressed and angry at myself. Lost 9 lbs. I lost 18 lbs in my 8 weeks with it and most of the loss was when I did not have a deficit or had a minor one. I can't figure it out to be honest with you. I only know that through my experiences when I just stick with my 3500 calorie deficit a week I get little results. I have to "shake it up".

    I also have found this to be true in my personal exercise program. Walking as fast as I can for 20 minutes burned approx. 348 calories. Walking then running then walking slower (interval) burned close to 500 for the same 20 minutes.

    I'd be so interested in learning the PROOF or even the SCIENCE behind WHY this works myself. I will be staying tuned :)
This discussion has been closed.