Body Fat Reduction (to up calorie intake or not)

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leenites
leenites Posts: 166 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Gender: female
Age: 23
Height: 5'1''
Body fat percentage: 25%
Weight: 110lbs
Target: 21-22% body fat percentage

I was at 30% body fat and 120-125lbs. After working out and going on a low-fat dietary lifestyle, I am down to 25% body fat at 110lbs. So I lost about 10lbs of solid fat in 6 months or so.

But then everything stops.

I finished INSANITY twice, I keep my caloric intake to a NET 1200 - 12500 on a quite consistent basis (sometimes overshot because of luncheons, banquets).

I workout 6 times a week, 40-60minutes a day (used to do INSANITY, now doing INSANITY:Asylum). My flexibility greatly improved. My strength also increases. My core is stronger. I can jump higher. My fit tests show better results. BUT somehow, the body measurements have not changed for months (3 months or so) and the scale barely bulge.

Why?

I'm thinking of upping my caloric intake to NET 1400, reduce INSANITY to 3 times a week and alternate it with resistance band / barbell training. In the past, I was hovering between 60-100g of protein a day but I think going forward, I want to increase it to at least 120lbs daily.

Should I adopt those new changes? I'm a bit unsure to be honest. I mean, seriously, INSANITY is really hard workout and to go through it TWICE without seeing changes in body measurement, that's tough on me mentally.

Advice/suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks a lot.

For your reference, here's my net calories report.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/netcalories.jpg/
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Replies

  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    Gender: female
    Age: 23
    Height: 5'1''
    Body fat percentage: 25%
    Weight: 110lbs
    Target: 21-22% body fat percentage

    I was at 30% body fat and 120-125lbs. After working out and going on a low-fat dietary lifestyle, I am down to 25% body fat at 110lbs. So I lost about 10lbs of solid fat in 6 months or so.

    How low was your fat intake?
    Barbell training is a great idea regardless, so that part, yes.

    100g protein should be beyond sufficient protein consumption. You can go higher than this if you would like of course.

    How active are you outside of the gym?
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    Gender: female
    Age: 23
    Height: 5'1''
    Body fat percentage: 25%
    Weight: 110lbs
    Target: 21-22% body fat percentage

    I was at 30% body fat and 120-125lbs. After working out and going on a low-fat dietary lifestyle, I am down to 25% body fat at 110lbs. So I lost about 10lbs of solid fat in 6 months or so.

    How low was your fat intake?
    Barbell training is a great idea regardless, so that part, yes.

    100g protein should be beyond sufficient protein consumption. You can go higher than this if you would like of course.

    How active are you outside of the gym?

    I did not calculate my caloric intake when I was doing that. My regular daily diet would consist of:

    1 cup of oatmeal
    2 whole eggs + 1 egg white
    2 pieces of chicken breast
    2 pieces of Costco multigrain bread
    1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
    1 large banana
    1 cup of blueberry
    1 cup of grapes
    1/4 cup of pecan
    some PAM spray

    As for how active I am outside gym ... well ... I work as a banker so I just sit in front of a computer for hours ... lame. My housemate drives me to work and back home. I just workout in the morning. Night time, I'm too tired for anything so I sleep.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    I did not calculate my caloric intake when I was doing that. My regular daily diet would consist of:

    1 cup of oatmeal
    2 whole eggs + 1 egg white
    2 pieces of chicken breast
    2 pieces of Costco multigrain bread
    1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
    1 large banana
    1 cup of blueberry
    1 cup of grapes
    1/4 cup of pecan
    some PAM spray

    As for how active I am outside gym ... well ... I work as a banker so I just sit in front of a computer for hours ... lame. My housemate drives me to work and back home. I just workout in the morning. Night time, I'm too tired for anything so I sleep.

    Are you still eating the above as listed, or do you now have variety in your food sources?
    EDIT: Also, can you please clarify this:
    BUT somehow, the body measurements have not changed for months (3 months or so) and the scale barely bulge
    What has the scale done in this time frame?
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    I did not calculate my caloric intake when I was doing that. My regular daily diet would consist of:

    1 cup of oatmeal
    2 whole eggs + 1 egg white
    2 pieces of chicken breast
    2 pieces of Costco multigrain bread
    1/4 cup of brown rice (uncooked)
    1 large banana
    1 cup of blueberry
    1 cup of grapes
    1/4 cup of pecan
    some PAM spray

    As for how active I am outside gym ... well ... I work as a banker so I just sit in front of a computer for hours ... lame. My housemate drives me to work and back home. I just workout in the morning. Night time, I'm too tired for anything so I sleep.

    Are you still eating the above as listed, or do you now have variety in your food sources?


    I've been eating different food since then. Feel free to check my food diary. It's open for public viewing. It's 31 December today so dinner was big just now. >.>

    Generally though, I try to eat these on a regular basis these days:

    ON whey protein (1-2 scoops)
    full cream powdered milk (1-2 tablespoon)
    one serving of fruits (apple/kiwi/orange/...etc.)
    150-200g of vegetables (whatever that's on sale)
    1/4 cup of oatmeal
    some tofu/tempeh
    pre-workout drink (MP Assault)
    3 whole large eggs
    6oz of white chicken
    At least 2 liter of water a day

    I reduced my oatmeal and fruit intake to cut down on carb. I substitute fruits with vegetables.

    I'm not sure if I should be focusing on bulking or cutting anymore. Should I up my calorie intake? Or do I need to eat cleaner and just say NO to those occasional luncheons?
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    You mentioned this:
    BUT somehow, the body measurements have not changed for months (3 months or so) and the scale barely bulge

    Can you clarify what "barely budge" means, in terms of how many lbs over these 3 months?

    If you have a graph chart like you do for intake, please link.
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    You mentioned this:
    BUT somehow, the body measurements have not changed for months (3 months or so) and the scale barely bulge

    Can you clarify what "barely budge" means, in terms of how many lbs over these 3 months?

    If you have a graph chart like you do for intake, please link.

    haha.
    I used to report in daily until I realized how pointless it was. It remained at 108-112lbs over these 3 months.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    I have opinions about this after having asked you all these questions. Before getting into this, these are just my opinions and I'm just some random guy on the internet, so you should keep that in mind as you proceed:

    1) Your intake is actually close to sufficient due to your size (small). Your TDEE should sit somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800-1900 which would put a good intake value for you at about 1450 average (when I say average, this includes rest and exercise days together). When I just look at your diary, you are a bit under this but it doesn't look too bad. Since you eat back some exercise calories, you're not too far off from this.

    2) You should introduce more variety into your diet for the sake of micronutrients but this likely won't effect body composition unless you develop a deficiency through lack of variety. In other words, if you compose a list of foods and eat them over and over again, and your list doesn't contain a certain vitamin/etc, you're screwing yourself long-term.

    3) Protein intake is beyond sufficient and if you like low-carbing it, go for it, but it's probably not a great plan in your situation given all the exercise you're doing. That being said, your protein and dietary fat needs will cause CHO intake to reduce by itself. Continually hitting 170g pro will cause carbs to get quite low and I would suspect energy issues. Again, personal preference here, you can go low CHO if you want to.

    Now as it pertains to your weight issue, I think it could be a few possibilities:

    1) You COULD have hormone issues from low intake. For YOU, eating around maintenance (1800-1900) with moderate carb intake for about a week, followed by resuming your deficit, may help to resolve this. You would expect some bloat/water weight gain.

    2) I'm actually going to go here: It could be that you are already very small and don't have much left to lose. Your bodyfat percentage is stuck because you need to start adding lean mass and your P90X isn't applying progressive resistance or heavy enough loads to accomplish this. I could be very wrong on this point but it's worth bringing up. Heavy barbell training would be a good thing to introduce.

    3) You could be eating much more than you think you are due to estimation errors or counting errors.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    2) I'm actually going to go here: It could be that you are already very small and don't have much left to lose. Your bodyfat percentage is stuck because you need to start adding lean mass and your P90X isn't applying progressive resistance or heavy enough loads to accomplish this. I could be very wrong on this point but it's worth bringing up. Heavy barbell training would be a good thing to introduce.

    ^ I wouldn't expect the above point to specifically cause a stall out in weight, but looking at bodyfat% it is absolutely applicable in that inadequate progressive resistance may not sufficiently prevent LBM losses when eating at a deficit.
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    Though I do not know per se which is the right answer (wish I know!), I should probably give them a try.

    In any case though, if you were me, would you go for a slightly higher carb intake and overall NET calories of 1400 or so and doing barbell training at least once a week? I'm thinking of getting some dumb bells at home to work with. Going to gym for barbell is troublesome. hahaha.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    Assuming you measure and weigh foods, if I were you I would eat at maintenance for a week to rule out any issues with hormonal downregulation, and then I would resume my deficit knowing that any water weight or minimal gains that occur during this week would be taken care of the following week regardless.

    But, this scares people.

    As far as resistance bands/barbells/db's, if you plan on investing so that you actually have a moderately heavy load to work with then I'd do it. If you're going to go buy a pair of 5's and a pair of 10's I wouldn't bother. Resistance bands may be a good option but I'm uneducated in that department.

    Additionally as far as intake goes, I would shoot for about 90g PRO, 45g FAT as minimums, and I'd fill the rest of your calories with carbs.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,523 Member
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    Gender: female
    Age: 23
    Height: 5'1''
    Body fat percentage: 25%
    Weight: 110lbs
    Target: 21-22% body fat percentage

    I was at 30% body fat and 120-125lbs. After working out and going on a low-fat dietary lifestyle, I am down to 25% body fat at 110lbs. So I lost about 10lbs of solid fat in 6 months or so.

    But then everything stops.

    I finished INSANITY twice, I keep my caloric intake to a NET 1200 - 12500 on a quite consistent basis (sometimes overshot because of luncheons, banquets).

    I workout 6 times a week, 40-60minutes a day (used to do INSANITY, now doing INSANITY:Asylum). My flexibility greatly improved. My strength also increases. My core is stronger. I can jump higher. My fit tests show better results. BUT somehow, the body measurements have not changed for months (3 months or so) and the scale barely bulge.

    Why?

    I'm thinking of upping my caloric intake to NET 1400, reduce INSANITY to 3 times a week and alternate it with resistance band / barbell training. In the past, I was hovering between 60-100g of protein a day but I think going forward, I want to increase it to at least 120lbs daily.

    Should I adopt those new changes? I'm a bit unsure to be honest. I mean, seriously, INSANITY is really hard workout and to go through it TWICE without seeing changes in body measurement, that's tough on me mentally.

    Advice/suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks a lot.

    For your reference, here's my net calories report.
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/netcalories.jpg/
    Because INSANITY isn't strength training per se. If you don't use actual weight resistance, you take the chance of losing a good amount of lean muscle tissue when just doing cardio based exercise. Less lean muscle will mean less weight, but it's not the weight you WANT to lose. It's called being skinny fat.
    Lift some heavy weights for sets. It does wonders.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • carrie_eggo
    carrie_eggo Posts: 1,396 Member
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    +1 on the heavy resistance training and maintenance for a week (or more......) Sidesteal consistently gives SOLID advice. I enjoyed reading this. Good luck leenites! :)
  • Shyloh1
    Shyloh1 Posts: 422 Member
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    +1 on the heavy resistance training and maintenance for a week (or more......) Sidesteal consistently gives SOLID advice. I enjoyed reading this. Good luck leenites! :)

    I couldn't agree more!:smile:
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    . For YOU, eating around maintenance (1800-1900) with moderate carb intake for about a week, followed by resuming your deficit, may help to resolve this. You would expect some bloat/water weight gain.


    One additional point: The above estimation is a bit high. I double checked with Katsch-McArdle and an arbitrary calc based on weight alone, and you're likely closer to 1700-1800 for TDEE/maintenance. Only mentioning this as a point of clarity and you should probably check some intake estimators as a second point of reference if you do make decision based on that. Granted, even if you eat in a slight surplus it's still going to be helpful long term, in my opinion.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    Because INSANITY isn't strength training per se. If you don't use actual weight resistance, you take the chance of losing a good amount of lean muscle tissue when just doing cardio based exercise. Less lean muscle will mean less weight, but it's not the weight you WANT to lose. It's called being skinny fat.
    Lift some heavy weights for sets. It does wonders.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    ^ This is a better way of saying what I said in part of my reply above regarding P90. In addition to what niner is saying above, the smaller/leaner you are, the more difficult it is to retain lean mass during deficit eating and consequently, progressive loading should become a necessity at some point. I would suspect that at 110lbs, you don't have a lot of room for error.

    Someone with a lot of fat will have a higher chance of hanging onto lean mass so they would require less loading and have a lower protein-per-pound requirement just due to having more fat. This type of person could do fine on P90 for a while. You, not so much, in my opinion.
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    I'm pretty sure I'm on that "no room for error" type. That's why I come here for some assistance so I can reach that final goal. The first 10lbs of fat came off so easily but these last 5lbs or so is incredibly hard.

    I do not have the budget to get a full set of barbell/dumbbells/whatever so that's a bit hard. I can go gym for the barbell still but gym does not have dumb bells (it's a small gym in my condo and they are afraid people will steal dumb bells). I can just work on all barbell exercises first.

    And to supplement that, I'll probably get a pair of 8lbs and 12lbs of dumb bells. They are expensive so again, I'm contemplating.

    I have resistance bands (http://www.amazon.com/Lifeline-Special-Triple-Resistance-Cable/dp/B00069CP26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325345178&sr=8-1) and they are quite nice. So if my budget does not allow for further investment, I'll stick to this for now.

    I'll increase my carb intake a bit and overall calorie intake to GROSS 1700 for starters, alternate between barbell and INSANITY and hopefully, we'll see some difference.
  • TrainingWithTonya
    TrainingWithTonya Posts: 1,741 Member
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    Okay, I took the liberty to use the info you provided to do the math as if I were designing a program for you. Based on my calculations, which use your lean body mass (which you've lost 5 pounds of BTW), your BMR is only 900 Calories per day. Add in the activity factor for being sedentary at work and you get a BMR + Activity of 1080 Calories per day. You are one of the few people I've seen in my 15 year career in the fitness industry that has an BMR that low. That's because your lean body mass is so low at only 82.5 pounds. You absolutely need to add resistance training ASAP to stop the loss of lean body mass. If you add 500 Calories per day (just an estimate, but will change as you change your workouts so definitely log them), you get a TDEE of 1580 Calories. For my clients I recommend eating no less then 80% of their TDEE, so if you burn 500 calories then your total daily Calorie intake should be 1264 Calories (80% of 1580 Calories). My best recommendation as to how to work with these numbers and MFP, would be to put the 1080 as your goal and let MFP add your exercise Calories, then multiply the total goal by 80% (or 0.8) to get the minimum number of Calories you should eat that day. Yes, I know that is below the "magic" number of 1200, but that is not counting exercise and there's no such thing as a magic number that works for everyone. Your's is lower because of being so low in lean body mass. So, definitely focus on adding that lean body mass through resistance training. Since you need to focus on adding lean body mass through weight training, you need to get 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. At 110 pounds, you are 50 kilograms, so you need 75-100 grams of protein per day. If you take the 100 grams and multiply it by 4 you get 400 calories from protein. Divide that by the 1080 you are putting in as your goal calories and you get 37%. MFP uses 5% increments, so I'd enter 35% protein on MFP to get in that zone of 75-100 grams before exercise. MFP will add more for exercise so be sure to add those in when you are eating. If you subtract out the 35% from carbs from the total of 100%, you get 65% left. The minimum recommendation for carbs is 45% and fat is 20%, and conveniently, they add up to the 65% you have left, so I would put those in MFP to get your amounts.

    Now, as for your workouts, what are you planning to do for resistance training? Since you have Insanity, do you have other Beach Body products like Chalene Extreme or P90X? Either of those would be good to start with if you aren't sure how to put a weight training program together yet. If you are more comfortable doing weight workouts on your own, that's great too. Just be sure you add weight training! If you need help putting together a program due, PM me and I'll be glad to help you.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    I'll increase my carb intake a bit and overall calorie intake to GROSS 1700 for starters, alternate between barbell and INSANITY and hopefully, we'll see some difference.

    As a point of clarity, the recommended intake I listed is final intake. You would not eat back exercise calories with this recommendation and for that 1 week period you should just eat the same intake regardless of rest day vs exercise.

    After that one week period is up, drop calories back down per your original plan.
  • jwilds1010
    jwilds1010 Posts: 33 Member
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    You may want to vary your workout. You stated that you have done Insanity 2 x's now, change it up. Challenge yourself with new and different exercise your body is not used to doing. I would also increase your protein slightly and you may want to increase your calorie intake and eat your exercise calories!!!!
  • leenites
    leenites Posts: 166 Member
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    Okay, I took the liberty to use the info you provided to do the math as if I were designing a program for you. Based on my calculations, which use your lean body mass (which you've lost 5 pounds of BTW), your BMR is only 900 Calories per day. Add in the activity factor for being sedentary at work and you get a BMR + Activity of 1080 Calories per day. You are one of the few people I've seen in my 15 year career in the fitness industry that has an BMR that low. That's because your lean body mass is so low at only 82.5 pounds. You absolutely need to add resistance training ASAP to stop the loss of lean body mass. If you add 500 Calories per day (just an estimate, but will change as you change your workouts so definitely log them), you get a TDEE of 1580 Calories. For my clients I recommend eating no less then 80% of their TDEE, so if you burn 500 calories then your total daily Calorie intake should be 1264 Calories (80% of 1580 Calories). My best recommendation as to how to work with these numbers and MFP, would be to put the 1080 as your goal and let MFP add your exercise Calories, then multiply the total goal by 80% (or 0.8) to get the minimum number of Calories you should eat that day. Yes, I know that is below the "magic" number of 1200, but that is not counting exercise and there's no such thing as a magic number that works for everyone. Your's is lower because of being so low in lean body mass. So, definitely focus on adding that lean body mass through resistance training. Since you need to focus on adding lean body mass through weight training, you need to get 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. At 110 pounds, you are 50 kilograms, so you need 75-100 grams of protein per day. If you take the 100 grams and multiply it by 4 you get 400 calories from protein. Divide that by the 1080 you are putting in as your goal calories and you get 37%. MFP uses 5% increments, so I'd enter 35% protein on MFP to get in that zone of 75-100 grams before exercise. MFP will add more for exercise so be sure to add those in when you are eating. If you subtract out the 35% from carbs from the total of 100%, you get 65% left. The minimum recommendation for carbs is 45% and fat is 20%, and conveniently, they add up to the 65% you have left, so I would put those in MFP to get your amounts.

    Now, as for your workouts, what are you planning to do for resistance training? Since you have Insanity, do you have other Beach Body products like Chalene Extreme or P90X? Either of those would be good to start with if you aren't sure how to put a weight training program together yet. If you are more comfortable doing weight workouts on your own, that's great too. Just be sure you add weight training! If you need help putting together a program due, PM me and I'll be glad to help you.

    Thanks for doing all those hardwork for me.
    I actually went to a fitness center, stepped on one of those fancy machine and spit out results of BMR, BMI, body fat, etc ...
    And it told me that my BMR is 1180 or so. I do not really know how it calculates the body fat but I saw 52ohm (I think, if I am not mistaken), which translated to about 25% body fat.

    I usually just measure my body and use the Navy method to estimate my body fat. For BMR, I used Katch McArdle method and it turned out to be similar to what that fitness center machine pumped out. Take that and multiply by 1.1 (sedantary is the obvious choice), I'll get 1298 actually. =D

    May I know which method you use for calculation?

    As for resistance training, because I'm limited in my equipments (resistance bands turn out to be not so convenient for some moves and dumb bells are unavailable), I just ended up looking for barbell exercises on bodybuilding.com to work on specific muscle groups.

    I would not mind trying out Chalean Extreme because it takes shorter time to complete (40minutes?). P90X is too long and I do not have the time nor the equipment for it (again, no chinup bar). I do wish to complete INSANITY Asylum though since I already completed 10 days out of 30 days. hahaha.

    Life of chasing fitness is tough and uncertain, but man, I'm so glad to be on this journey of discovering what my body wants/needs and how much it can do by pushing it a bit further every day. ^.^ It's FUN.

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